Alphadawg7
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Posts posted by Alphadawg7
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Funny stuff.Doubt it's gonna earn AlpoDawg's "Great Post" Seal of Approval, but who the f%3K cares? It made me laugh out loud.
lol, another typical post from the "The Janitor"...it was only a matter of time...surprise it took you this long to chime in, work must have had you all tied up cleaning up a Category 5 mess in the crapper...
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Let's be honest. Aside from Bledsoe's great first half in 2002, QB has been a problem for the Bills, since Jim Kelly retired. (I am not forgetting about Flutie either; he managed the offense just well enough to win most games when backed by a stellar defense).
I have to admit that I found myself drinking the Trent Edwards koolaide after the 5-1 start. He appeared to have turned the corner and was doing more than just managing the game -- he was actually winning it in the 4th quarter. There are a number of theories for his regression, all of which probably bear some merit:
1. The severe concussion he received in the Arizona game. This would seem to lose credibility when observing that Trent actually had his best day as a professional in his very next start against the Chargers. Of course, the OL did such a good job that day of protecting him that I don't believe he was even touched. Also, look back at that SD game and observe that as error-free as he played, the Bills' offense didn't exactly explode for 40 points.
2. Facing opponents that were familiar with him. Throwing out the Arizona game, in which he played less than a full series, one common denominator with the 4 teams the Bills beat was the fact that none of them had played against Trent before. Beginning with the division free-fall against Miami, all of the opponents had played against him before -- and knew his tendencies. This is not uncommon for a 2nd year player, which is why the notion of a "Sophomore Jinx" exists. It's like a young pitcher in baseball that gets hit hard the 2nd or 3rd time through the batting order.
3. The infamous failure against 3-4 defenses. This certainly spelled doom in the division, as all three of the division foes ran this style of defense. I am still not sure why he struggled so much against this base defense. Was it just coincidence? Or some of #2 I listed above as well?
4. Coaching let him down. Remember, AVP and Turk were both rookies in their respective roles. Will a year of taking their bumps help them mature in year 2? Or are they just over-matched? Also, by his very nature, Dick Jauron is always going to play it close to the vest. His motto seems to be; Keep it close and try to win in the 4th quarter. That's why you are, unfortunately, never going to see one of his teams leading the league in scoring. Even that explosion against KC had a great deal to do with the aberration of turnovers forced by the defense.
5. Key injuries, especially to Josh Reed. When Reed went down, I don't think Trent trusted the other young WRs that had to step up. That was most evident in the Cleveland game, when his confidence seemed shot and he just couldn't pull the trigger.
When Bill Parcells was out of football in 2007, he had some great bits of wisdom that he shared on ESPN. Basically he said that a team should have a 4 year cycle plan for a QB. Year 1 you can throw out, since the young man is a rookie and is bound to experience growing pains. Year 2 you need to see positive progression. By Year 3 the QB had better take control of the team -- if not, then you know that you need to find an alternative in Year 4.
2009 is Trent's make or break year. If he can't progress beyond what we saw at the BEGINNING of 2008, then we need to think about upgrading the position in 2010.
Excellent post...great assesment, and love the bit about Parcells quote...its the truth...
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I think the bills front office should at least discuss bringing in Jerry Porter. If the price isn't outrageous then I say bring him in. yea he caused problems in Jax, so he will be more likely to behave with his new team. Plus last time I checked, Josh Reed is our number two receiver and hardy is on the verge of a bust and probably will not be back until the season starts. The only light in the tunnel is that Stevie Johnson looked impressive. On that note we need a solid number two wide reciever and it looks like free agency is going to be the only way to address it.
Classic post that illustrates how undervalued Reed is. Our offense was noticeably worse without him last year. Reed doubled Porters production in only 13 games in an inept passing offense...in fact, Reed outplayed Bryant, Clayton, R. Williams, and Porter (all 4 popular choices to bring in here), and he did it in only 13 games...
Our QB play holds back the stats of both Reed and Evans, but Reed has very good hands, is a good blocker, and is very reliable...kind of a poor mans Wes Welker. Add in the up and coming Johnson and we don't need some journeyman bust WR that has never lived up to their potential despite numerous chances and fresh starts with new teams.
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I think Belichick wouldn't trade cassell in the division simply because he wouldn't want to ruin the kids career. He would destroy cassell if he went to the jets. DESTROY HIM. He made the kid and he knows all his weaknesses.
Sure Cassell had a pretty amazing year out of nowhere, but he still couldn't throw the deep ball and he had the deepest WR core in the league along with the best coaching.
I think Belichick would feel bad (oh no feelings!) if he traded him in the division and he would believe the pro's wouldnt outweigh the cons.
I would be shocked if they traded him within the division. Just dont see it happening unless someone offered them some ridiculous offer.
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Still not a Cutler fan. Maybe I've just picked the wrong games to watch the Broncos, but he seems to make too many stupid decisions, and puts his team in bad situations. Plus, he seems like a bit of a jerk.
Quinn, Flacco and Ryan have better overall skills than Trent, and all seem bright and capable. I'm not suggesting that all three will end up better than Trent, but right now I'd feel a little bit more confident with any of them. I sincerely hope that I am wrong, and Trent outplays them all. But, Trent can still be a fine QB and not surpass any, or all, of these other QBs.
I get ya...was just curious. He has a cannon arm and a mean streak, so I like that about him. I am not sold on Quinn or Flacco yet, too soon to tell. Ryan though (I know he has the same amount of starts as Flacco) showed a lot more potential to me than Flacco during his season. He made some big time throws, so I can see why you put him on there. Flacco I am just not sold on yet...he has promise though, thats for sure. Quinn just didnt get much playing time as he got hurt shortly after he got the job, but I really liked him coming out of college, so I will be curious to see how he comes in as the starter next year.
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Dude got an 8 on the wonderlic.
lmao...and you get 8 points for properly putting your name and date on the test?
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Has quarterback play been an issue? Absolutely. Is it the main reason our offense has been suffering? I don't think so.
I think our biggest problem has been consistency. It seems on any given play offensive play there is somebody who misses an assignment. Whether it's a lineman missing a block, a receiver not making a hard cut, a qb missing a read, a tight end dropping a pass. It also doesn't help that there were plenty of questionable calls. All of those things go back and reflect on the qb. If the qb is worried about getting whacked on his blind side, he loses confidence that he has time in the pocket (even when he does). A receiver drops a ball or hasn't been getting open all game, the qb isn't going to look that players way as much any more.
You hope that your QB is mentally tough enough to forget these things as the game progresses, but after a point (perhaps 7 weeks or so in?) you can't help but start to question the people around you because that's what you've been doing for 6 weeks straight.
Is it the QB's fault for getting out of rhythm with the offense? It is. He needs to be able to forget. Should he get more consistency from his team and be able to rely on them to do their jobs? Yes he SHOULD. Has he been able to? No. Where does the blame with that lie? I think some of it comes down to the player drive - but most of it comes from the coaching. They need to make sure the product they are putting on the field is synchronized and it just hasn't been.
Agree...very good post...
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You know, I've never made it a secret that I'm a believer...a Trent Edwards believer.
Those who've read my posts and actually remember my positions will attest to that fact because those who vouch for themselves are doomed to have no credibility (AD).
I believe, maybe hope is a better word, that many of you will also verify that I am a very objective observer. But I will wish that others will testify to that claim. What can I say? Whatever.
I really wonder how many of you have watched pro football for a long time and have done so with any sense of perspective. Maybe there's a lot of testosterone not accompanied by much judgment flying around these parts. Maybe there's a lot of young guys with a lot of energy and not too much life experience. That's mostly forgivable.
Maybe there's a lot of people on our board with a lot of unhappiness in their lives who allow that unhappiness to color their perspective on how they judge others. That's too bad. Bitterness is a sad trait to carry around and it benefits no one. It's even more sad that some people feel the need to inflict their negativity and anger upon others.
I don't know but it seems like there's a lot of unhappy people directing a lot of negative energy towards others whether they be members of the Buffalo Bills organization or other posters.
Please remember, we're all here for the same reason.
Moreover, I wonder how many of you judge yourselves as harshly as you do your local NFL football players or your fellow posters.
This is a guy (getting back to Trent Edwards before I took a philosophical detour) we're debating ad infinitum, ad naseum, who has started 23 games in two seasons for a bad team and who has really represented himself well. He's never done anything to make us feel embarrassed or ashamed. He has struggled as young people do in tough situations. He has acquitted himself above what would be expected. He is certainly a more accomplished person than myself and most of you. I can't believe the guy is only 25 years old. When I think back to when I was that age....
Be objective. Where was Troy Aikman after two seasons?
Don't let your ego get in the way of objectivity. Those of us who played a lot of sports as young people should be able to win and lose gracefully and graciously. That's the point of sports. You learn to win and lose and deal with it. What's really at stake here? We're all anonymous. Why is it so important to win arguments and slander each other and pro athletes? Especially when we are arguing in the name of negativity, hatred, and pettiness?
Good post...I know I can be guilty of getting sucked in by some of the posters on here. I am a die hard Bills fan and an even bigger football having had football at major part of my life playing in the Pac 10 through college until injuries ended that run...lol So, my passion for this team and the game can sometimes get the better of me and frustrated at posts on here when posters make it childish and set to do nothing other than mock or discredit others...whether it be our own players, coaches, owners, or fans of this board. Its all good though...
This post here, as I have said many times, was not a Trent bash, it was directed to the combined efforts of our QB play over 2 seasons. From playing at a major Pac 10 school that runs a pro style system, I can attest that being as competitive as we have been (only really not in one game, AZ, in 08) with this level of QB production and the rash of injuries to our critical players that we had no depth for, is a minor miracle...I mean to go 7-9 in back to back to season where your turnovers from your QB players are almost double their TD production is quite amazing.
Again, I fully support Trent of tomorrow, and hope he comes sooner rather than later, but him and JP were not very good yesterday and that was all my point was. I wasn't a big fan of DJ, but to be honest, his coaching job in 2007 was one of the better ones in the NFL, and yes he made some mistakes in 2008, but given how handicapped he was with inept play down the stretch from JP and Trent, plus the injuries to Schobel, Crowell, Greer, Reed, etc., I am a little more optimistic about him and would like to see what he can do once Trent (if ever) develops and we can get our guys back healthy and add a couple of good players this offseason through draft and free agency.
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I said "Yes" to:
Quinn, Rodgers, Flacco and Ryan.
Interesting...I get the Rodgers pick, but surprise you left Cutler off and added Quinn, Flacco, and Ryan...
Any particular reason why?
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I love how people misuse stats to make arguments. I'm sure playing a half against SF or 3 plays against the Cards didn't hurt Trent's average. Of course if you do this, it would lead to Trent passing for an average of 214 yards/game which was a yard below Matt Ryan and 8 yards ahead of Big Ben. But I guess that would kill that silly argument you just had.
FYI: I did not include the AZ game in the stats...
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yeah, except for the fact that he specifically mentioned that JP was part of the equation. Oops! Try again.
Thank you...someone who actually read the post...I mean I only said it like 10 times in this thread that it was the overall QB play...
I mean, I never said Trent won't be able to take the next step, I said we were lucky to win 7 games each of the last 2 years with the overall production we got from our combined QB effort. But when faced with having to look at the true level of productiion for him, people seem to get butt hurt and scream to high hell that he is the real deal and act like he has played that way to this point which he clearly has not.
We will only go as far as he, or whatever QB we have behind center, can take us.
I mean 14 wins in 32 games isnt bad considering during that span our QB's only threw 24 TD's and amassed 40 turnovers between Trent and JP combined...add in all of our injuries, and its a minor miracle...
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My breakdown:
5% blame: poor receiving corp
15% blame: average offensive line
20% blame: Newer system/New offensive coordinator
60% blame: Poor quarterback play
Why does everyone say that Trent is for sure the guy next year and is the future of the franchise and is entrenched in the starting spot? Gosh, I hope this is not true. We're not married to Trent. We should actively pursue getting the best QB we can possibly get in the off season. Then open it up in training camp and let the best QB win. I really don't care if it hurts Trent's feelings or not. This is the big leagues.
I've seen some good things from him, sure. I've also seen tons of bad. I know he got creamed in the Cardinals game and people say he wasn't the same. He sure looked OK against the Chargers 2 weeks later and the Chiefs. Kind of blows that theory.
How do we know that his receiving corps was weak when he wouldn't throw to them? They looked great in the first 6 games when Trent was on his game. And don't even say they weren't open. I was at the Clowns game, and there were guys open 10 yards and longer all night long. But Trent was playing like a scared rabbit and threw a lot of passes to guys behind the line of scrimmage.
The offensive line was not great, but in many games I watched our QBs had a lot of time to throw the ball. Enough for a decent QB to get by with.
If he is the the guy next year, then great. Go Bills. But, the off season is the time to question these things.
If we could get decent QB play, we'd be a pretty decent team. I'll say it is our #1 problem by far. Others exist for sure, but QB is #1.
Great post...my whole point exactly...
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I agree & I'm not calling for a replacement for Trent. I think it would be good for the Bills & Trent himself however if the Bills had someone to push Trent for the starters job. Competition brings out the best in people JMO. Unless the Bills have faith in the Chroise, they NEED another QB, I just hope it is someone that can WIN a few games.
THANK YOU, its all I have been saying...its my fault for getting sucked in by Trent lovers...I just get so frustrated when he gets promoted as if he is clearly the second coming of Joe Montanna...the only reason I even got involved in this thread was because I thought Derek would be a good option to come in and give Trent a run for his money...which hopefully would elevate one of their games and give us our QB...
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Hey, what happened to your reliance on 'facts' and 'stats'? I see you've replaced that with stamping your feet after your premise has been shot to hell.
Who the hell cares about 'after 24 games'? Isn't the point to see who is the better QB now?? And wouldn't recent stats be the best indicator of that?? Duh.
Unlike you I don't "hang my hat" on individual stats. Unlike you I understand that Anderson was a flash in the pan who has spiraled downward for 2 years and I was able to provide a wide range of stats to prove that (none of which you've attempted to refute -- funny how you were just crowing about this in another thread). To blame his woes on "dropped passes" when he's surrounded by talent like B. Edwards and Winslow is just laughable. But you keep harping on that huge "production" of 14 TDs last year while he finished at or near the bottom of the league in virtually every passing category.
Your crusade is getting old.
One, Braylon is amongst the league leaders in dropped passes and dropped several in the Bills game alone if you watched.
Two, it wasnt a crusade agaisnt Trent, it was to dispell the notion that there couldnt possibly be someone out there that could actually challenge Trent for the job.
Three, how is Derek in a 2 year downward spiral when he only played as a starter for 2 years and his 2007 campaign earned him a huge contract despite them already having a huge amount invested in Quinn?
He clearly isnt in a 2 year downward spiral when he only has 31 games under his belt which isnt even a full 2 years of games...
Four, when you went on to compare your manipulated stats, Derek still bests Trent in most categories, and that is including your famed downward spiral...so even at his worst, he was still putting more points up on the board than Trent.
Bottom line here was not to say one is better than the other, but to show how biased Bills fans are to Trent and how you somehow translate what he MAY be tomorrow into what he has done yesterday. And quite frankly, you can make all the little cute points you want about D. Anderson who has grossly outperformed Trent in almost every major passing category, but none of that changes the LACK of production for Trent...
So, spin it anyway you want to make yourself feel better. Funny thing is, I like Trent, but the moment you highlight his short comings when you analyze why we have struggled, you are labeled a Trent hater and all I am really saying is we will not get better until he does...
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Obviously, one of the big topic on this board is whether or not Edwards is the franchise guy or now. While there are definitely some serious doubts (arm strength and injury concerns), I think there is a lot to be excited about. He is entering his 3rd year, which typically is where most players have their breakout season. I think the problem with us as fans is that the crap feast of the last decade has jaded us (and probably rightly so). But Edwards and most of this young team has only been around for a few years. If we stepped back and looked at the situation as an outsider, it is not as bleak as most of us think.
So for the sake of argument, which QBs would rather have and why.
Surprisingly, I have a lot of support for Trent, still sport his Jersey, and hope he develops into all his hype. My posts about him have been strictly related to why we dont win now...yes I know he is young, but when I post about him or the QB production in general, its about why we are where we are, not where we are going.
That being said, Trent has potential and I like the kid, but his regression and injuries do have me concerned and I really think he needs someone in camp to push him.
As far as your post here, it is a slam dunk for me...Cutler or Rodgers...since I cant vote for two, it would be Cutler. The others have promise, but these two have the makings of upper echelon QB's in this league while the others have question marks still.
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You're telling me to "let it go" after the discussions you've engaged in?
If you come onto a message board and make claims which could be true but can't find a way to prove them, prepare to take a heat round.
Have a little humility and admit when you're wrong. No one on this board is right all the time, though some get it right more often than you.
Alpha Topic 1 Read macaroni's post. He says what many posters have tried to tell you already. Just because this board doesn't kneel when you post doesn't mean that's a bad thing.
You started making posts after the AZ game when JP subbed for the concussed TE. You went to significant effort to explain why Adrian Wilson should not have been fined. You know, with all this TE bashing, I've got to believe Edwards thrashed your team in the PAC 10 and you haven't gotten over it.
I mean, relax dude.
Huh? Humility when I am wrong? I often praise others post, in fact I do it all the time, even when we are on opposite sides...I have even posted several times about being wrong or someone making a good point...
But you are right about one thing, I will NEVER share any info I get from any sources I still have contact with, especially Barbara. I never posted like that before and havent since. It was a mistake and have said numerous times I shouldnt have done it as I should have known this board would focus on the source rather than the topic.
FYI: I still dont think Adrian should have been fined...maybe it has to do with the fact I played LB in college and that is exactly how we were taught to hit and it looked clean to me...just a hard hit. And I was pissed we lost Trent, but I kept my dissapointment out of that discussion and focused on whether I felt it was a clean hit. I was not even close to the only one who felt that way...
But who really cares...I mean seriously...why do you feel the need to follow me around and bring up old posts constantly? I keep my discussions mostly to football matters...whether you agree with them or not is your perogative and you are fully entitled to your opinnion, but seriously, the following me around and bringing up my profession or friendship with Barbara is not only getting old, but its creepy...
Move on...please...if you have somethng related to the bills you want to discuss, fine...even if you dont agree...but enough already with the old posts stuff. I have never made any outlandish claims or boasts...I let myself get baited in by posters lilke you in the Cassel thread, and I regret that, but at this point I could give a rats azz what you believe or dont believe...and its the fact you are vet and I have a great deal of respect for the armed forces that has kept my responses with you as civil as I have...
And even though you havent been very respectful in your posts to me, you dont see me arguing on whether you are a vet or not...I give you the benefit of the doubt...I mean, if someone needs to come on to a message board to make stuff up to make themselves feel better, than they have bigger issues, so might as well give them the benefit of the doubt than spend the amount of time you do trying to discredit them...
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Wow, outstanding post KD. And as I recently pointed out on another post, we've not even gotten into the discussion of supporting casts where Cleveland's O-line and receivers are better than ours (we have the advantage at running back although Jamaal Lewis was superb in 2007 when Anderson had his big year). Can we not argue about the supporting cast thing though? Thanks.
Here's some more numbers for a long thread which is chock full of opinions but lacking in facts:
Derek Anderson's Contract Info:
2/29/2008: Signed a three-year, $24 million contract. The deal contains $14.5 million in guarantees, including a $7 million signing bonus. Another $1 million is available through incentives based on Pro Bowls and performance. 2009: $1.45 million (+ $5 million roster bonus due in March), 2010: $7.45 million (+ $2 million roster bonus), 2011: Free Agent
So Anderson's cap figure with the amortized portion of his signing bonus is $8.78 million in 2009 and $11.78 million in 2010.
Maybe we should start the discussion over again.
This always happens...I show some stats on Trent and it turns into such an uproar as no one wants to face the facts that it starts to look like I am supporting the topic (in this case D. Anderson) and running Trent out of town...I didnt even start this thread...
I totally agree D. Anderson has a high cap figure, and any acquisition would be best done with a reworked contract. I am not even saying D. Anderson should be our guy as I am in NO WAY sold on him either...when I post the comparative stats, it was in response to those saying how bad he is and how great Trent is. All I was saying, how can you say that when the guy has clearly out produced Trent. Sure he struggled in 2008, but Trent regressed too...
I only said, it would be nice to get a guy who has shown on the field he has potential who could PUSH trent for the starting job. I am in no way saying that Trent is worse or better than Derek...but Derek showed plenty of promise in his first 31 games and he also has had some struggles...not much unlike Trent this year when he regressed as a young QB.
And my original post into this thread was not to go out and get Derek, but asked what if we could get Derek and Winslow in a pacakage deal as both are likely to be on the market?
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To repeat from another post:
If you actually factor of injury situation which completely misrepresent the whole body of work, TE's stats are pretty decent. Take out Edwards playing a half against SF or 3 plays against the Cards didn't hurt Trent's average. It would lead to Trent passing for an average of 214 yards/game which was a yard below Matt Ryan and 8 yards ahead of Big Ben. http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?arc...mp;d-447263-p=1
I will say that Jauron gets blamed a little to harshly because he has had a lot of crap to coach at the QB position (McNown, Jim miller, Shane Matthews, Kordell Stewart, Losman). How many coaches would have won with those guys under center? you really think the guy who steal clothes from the homeless and coaches NE would have won any Super Bowl with that crap platter.
i don't know if Edwards will be the franchise guy that we badly need. I do, however, think TE entering his 3rd season is the best QB Jauron has ever had. Of course, that isn't really saying much.
I agree with your post, and unlike the others, you see that this wasnt a Trent sucks post, it was a poor OVERALL production from out QB's, which include JP post. Trent still is a big contibutor to that, but it doesnt mean he wont take a big step forward this year.
The whole reason I started this was because I was tired of the DJ is the reason, Ralph is the reason, Peters is the reason, and DE is the reason posts that all completely ignore our overall sagging QB play...
I hope the kid pans out...I still wore his jersey all year and even during the playoffs and SB...but my hope in him doesnt change the facts of how he has played until now, and JP played even worse...the fact we got 7 wins both seasons while going through these growing pains at QB is a minor miracle...
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No, it's not a good post. And please tell me you are smarter than to be duped by his cherry picked stats over a completely meaningless period of time. Why is he harping on mostly meaningless stats like "multi TD games" and "zero TD games"? Meanwhile he ignores completion %, QB rating and even wins/losses? And what is with the time frame of "first 24 games"? Why would you not compare the last 24 games? To include Anderson's stats from 2006 and not 2008 is just plain stupid, not to mention dishonest. So let's try it again:
Stats over the last 24 games:
Team Record:
Trent: 12-12
Derek: 12-12
Number of games with QB rating > 80:
Trent: 11
Derek: 9
Completion %:
Trent: 62%
Derek: 54%
Number of games passing for MORE than 200 yards:
Trent: 9 times
Derek: 13 times
Yards per Attempt:
Trent: 6.73
Derek: 6.53
Total TDs:
Trent: 18
Derek: 32
Total INTs:
Trent: 18
Derek: 25
TD:INT Ratio:
Trent: 1:1
Derek 1.25:1
Passing yards:
Trent: 4,329 (180 avg)
Derek: 4,890 (204 avg)
Hmmm....not so one sided anymore is it? But wait, let's not stop here. Alpha contends that Trent is getting worse, and thinks Anderson is a superior option. So let's put that theory to the test by comparing Trent's 2008 season (14 games) against Anderson's last 14 games:
Stats over the last 14 games:
Team Record:
Trent: 7-7
Derek: 6-8
Number of games with QB rating > 80:
Trent: 8
Derek: 4
Completion %:
Trent: 66%
Derek: 51% (worst in the NFL!)
Number of games passing for MORE than 200 yards:
Trent: 4 times
Derek: 7 times
Yards per Attempt:
Trent: 7.22
Derek: 5.79 (2d worst in the NFL!)
Total TDs:
Trent: 11
Derek: 14
Total INTs:
Trent: 10
Derek: 14
TD:INT Ratio:
Trent: 1.1:1
Derek 1.0:1
Passing yards:
Trent: 2,699 (193 avg; over 200 if you exclude the AZ game where he was hurt first series)
Derek: 2,340 (only 167 avg)
QB Rating - 2008 season only:
Trent: 85.4
Derek 66.5 (worst in the NFL!)
Wow! Isn't it amazing how the picture changes. Fact is that Anderson is a boom or bust player, and the vast majority of his booms took place in the first half of 2007. Almost every one of Anderson's stats regressed in 2008 (why do you guys think he got benched?) while Trent's have stayed steady or improved. Give Trent a TE like Winslow and the comparison is even more distorted. To suggest that Anderson is worth actually trading for and picking up his contract is simply indefensible.
Everything in this post is a joke and 100% unusable! Where do get the notion you can choose ANY 24 game stretch and compare it to Trents? Trent has played 24 games ONLY, so you have to compare the same stretch for another QB...the FIRST 24 GAMES....NICE TRY ON ONCE AGAIN MANIPULATING THE STATS TO BOOST TRENT...WHAT A JOKE.
Hey, lets compare Brees last 24 games, or Payton Mannings, or how about Tom Bradys...geezus, the lengths Trent lovers will go to try and make him look better astound me...if you want to play that game, I can destroy any stats of Trents by pulling the last 24 games of Cutler, Rivers, either Manning, Warner, McNabb, Brady, Brees, or even Cassel...
Trent has ONLY 24 games under his belt and the only accurate comparison is to look at the first 24 games of any other QB...but go ahead, manipulate it any way you want, IT STILL DOESNT CHANGE trents production.
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No, it's not a good post. And please tell me you are smarter than to be duped by his cherry picked stats over a completely meaningless period of time. Why is he harping on mostly meaningless stats like "multi TD games" and "zero TD games"? Meanwhile he ignores completion %, QB rating and even wins/losses? And what is with the time frame of "first 24 games"? Why would you not compare the last 24 games? To include Anderson's stats from 2006 and not 2008 is just plain stupid, not to mention dishonest. So let's try it again:
What a stupid comeback and another typical Trent supporter trying to manipulate the stats to support trent! First off, why did I include the 2006 stats for Derek? What a stupid question...Trent has ONLY played 24 games, so I picked the first 24 games for Derek too...we are talking about the FIRST 24 games of Trents career...so I have to COMPARE TO THE SAME TIME FRAME FOR DEREK...otherwise I could just pick the best 24 game stretch for Payton Manning and compare that to Trent...it makes no sense...
To use any games AFTER his first 24 would be dishonest becuase its a comparison of the first 24 of trents career...NICE TRY!
And last I checked the NFL was scoring points and it required the QB to be productive and I compared PRODUCTION STATS...How can you say how many times a QB passes for ZERO TD's is not relevant? How can you say the times an NFL QB passes for LESS than 200 yards is not relevant? How can you say how many times a QB was able to produce more than ONE measly TD in a game is not relevant? These were all cries about JP, but now you same people make excuses for Trent...
Completion percentage...please...thats the hat you want to hang your Trent is so great argument on? Go ahead, I will take the more than DOUBLE TD production...Not to mention Dereks willingness to try and get the ball down field to his WR's and how often the Cle WR's drop passes affect Dereks completion percentage, while Trents is upped by his tendency to throw short safe throws on check downs that dont advance the sticks...
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Sorry, that dodge isn't going to work either. Arguing with your stats is like shooting fish in a barrel.
And speaking of amusing, it doesn't get much better than someone preaching about facts and stats when they are so committed to their personal anti-Trent crusade. Unlike you, I'll root for whoever is playing for the Bills rather than screaming about how he should be replaced with an inferior player.
Dude, seriously...
First off, I will support Trent and I hope he develops...I didnt say get rid of him...the fact remains UNTIL he becomes what you THINK he already is we will NOT go very far.
The point is, everyone blames DJ for our 7-9 record, but how can he do any better if our QB's play this bad? Same with baseball...you can not consistently win if you pitchers give up 5 runs every game...like it or not, our QB play has been BEYOND subpar in the last 2 years, and this post DIRECTLY addresses the RESULTS of the last 2 years, not what Trent may become...
Add in his severe regression and injury history and his potential looks more questionable. My analysis has nothing to do with my opinnion of Trent, it is a cold hard look at what has transpired the last 2 seasons that led us to 7-9, and it wasnt just Trent, it was JP too. I am whole heartedly pulling for Trent and this thread was not meant to bash him but meant to highlight how we got to back to back 7-9 seasons...
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First, my name is "BillsVet" because I am a military veteran and obviously a Bills fan. The only season since 1988 that I missed was 2004 when I was deployed.
You got yourself off to a bad start on this board by quoting sources that you attempted in vain to prove. So much so that it came down to your "proof" being a pilot television show and whether or not it was on IMDB. Pretty lame if you ask me. Your inside source was allegedly Matt Cassel's mother, which isn't much of a source on anyone but her son.
Regardless of whether you like it, Trent Edwards is the QB of this team. He doesn't miss on draft picks, he doesn't sign free agents, he doesn't hire lame duck coaches who never should have been hired after failing in Chicago. He doesn't hire OC's who've never been in the position and who never would have been without Buffalo. He doesn't put the game plan together, but he is an integral part of this team.
You want a QB with less than 2 seasons of NFL starts to play like an All Pro. When you refer to QB play, you're making a veiled reference against TE and we all know it. In the short time you've been here, you've managed to alienate a lot of people, particularly those who don't wholeheartedly agree with your tired rationale.
I'll be critical of TE when he has a bad game. The first quarter of the Cleveland MNF game was about as bad as a QB can play. He had a lack of confidence, but his rookie OC and rookie QB coach did nothing to react to the Browns defense. People criticize TE as the checkdown man, and there were guys open, but try playing QB with 6-7 guys in coverage on every down.
I didn't care for the way you introduced yourself onto this board. Get over yourself.
First off, the topic of the thread was 100% about Matt Cassel when I posted a conversation about with his mom...so your point of "she isnt much of a source other than on her son" is a mute point, becuase the info I got from her only pertained to her son...
Second...the way I introduced myself? First off, I posted over 700 other posts and threads and had been on here for months before I started that thread...On top of that, I said take it for what its worth, as all I did was share what at the time was something I found interesting that I got from her. I didnt come out and say "look at me, I know her"... who the f*ck cares if I know her...and why would I try and name drop someones mom?
I only included her in the post because as soon as someone says you heard something from a source all the posters start screaming for a link or source...so I provided it for their benefit, but unfortunatley some posters on this board, your self included, are incapable of accepting that...oh well, who really gives a damn what you believe...
Third...Prior to that post and since that post I have made no such posts even remotely close. I actually have friends in the NFL from my playing days and from other friends, and I hear things all the time, but I dont come running on here and post them because usually they are not close enough to the situation for me to give them enough credit, so why bother. I am not interested in posting speculation I hear, I only posted the one on Cassel because of how close she is to the situation and I found it quite interesting...plus she's my friend, so I trust her.
Congrats Billsvet for being a veteran, I commend you on that. But to be honest, I dont know what your deal is that makes you feel necessary to try and break me down when all I did was share some info I got that was interesting at the time. In fact, all you do is follow me around this board and bring that up in every thread...its old...its sad that you feel the need to prop yourself up by mocking others. You mock my career and doubt I even work in film and TV...come to LA, just about everyone here, especially waiters, has worked in the industry at some point...its nothing special...
I mean seriously, I dont go around this board posting BS crap...just about every topic I start or post I make deals directly with football info and has nothing to do with hear say...look at how many posts I have, and the only one you can focus on is Cassel...
Let it go dude...geezus...
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I think people out here take pot shots at your personal info because we have no way of knowing if it is true or not So if you are posting stuff like "Matt Cassel is going to do this because I'm friends with his Mom and she told me so", you are just opening yourself up for ridicule. Nobody out here cares if you are friends with Mrs. Cassel, and those that do care, don't believe you anyway.
I just enjoy posting my Bills' and NFL opinions, while keeping my personal info to myself. You would be smart to do the same from here on in.
As far as your post about Lost-man and Edwards stats the past two seasons, they are facts, and indisputable, obviously. But I put more blame on the Bills' biggest, tallest, fattest and weakest OL in the NFL, both guys have had to play behind. If those overpaid, passionless fatties would figure out how to run block, Edwards or any decent QB (leaving Lost-man out), would have much better stats as Lynch and Jackson were averaging 4.5 yards per carry.
I get ya...I got some insight from Barbara that I found interesting and shared it...I have talked to her a few times since, and trust me the contents of those conversations will never grace these boards again...it really wasnt worth it...I sent her a link to thread, she was rolling and we had a good laugh over it as she poked fun at how irritated I got...
I dont really share personal info with the exception of that post...for instance, I played college ball for 4 years in the Pac 10 and been asked a few times where and when, but I leave it out, its not important and don't need people that much in my business...
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How's this for a semi-intelligent reply?
The woes of an eleven man unit which depends on choreography and precision for success usually cannot be reduced to one factor.
As a sophisticated analyst would frame the issue, there can be % blame apportioned to several areas.
I think most of us can agree that we have subpar weapons in the passing game.
I think most of us can agree that we have an average offensive line.
I think most of can agree that we had a first year offensive coordinator installing a slightly new system.
I think most of can agree that Trent is a young quarterback. He has 23 career starts.
I think most of us can agree that somewhere around 99% of all young quarterbacks struggle.
So IMO blaming the poor offensive performance solely on quarterback play is a gross oversimplification.
Why can't we say something like:
30% blame: poor receiving corp
25% blame: average offensive line
25% blame: Newer system/New offensive coordinator
20% blame: Poor quarterback play
You can split hairs on the % of blame but to put it all on one factor is ridiculous to me.
Lol, nice reply, and I respect your opinnion and thought you put into it...
However, I disagree with 30% poor recieving corp...when JP was productive in 2006, so was Evans. Reed is the most underapprieciated player on our team and our ineptness at passing the ball keeps his stats modest as well as Evans.
Offensive line is not great, but not terrible either. Center is our only glaring and big weak spot...but the O Line provided plenty of passing time this season that saw our QB's do literally nothing with it.
Agree, newer system adds to it, but the system was simplified to account for the young QB problem.
The issue I have is that all these posters who support Trent say he is young and that is why he struggles...then they go on to talk about him like he isnt struggling in other posts (not saying you do this, but many do).
Do we have several holes, sure...but our biggest has been POOR QB play...the fact remains, how can a team win with this kind of production?
Seriously, what has to happen for a team to win when your QB's combine for a measly 24 passing TD's, 40 turnovers, and 190 yards passing a game over 2 full seasons and 32 games? I will tell you...your D has to play out of this world and hold teams under 14 points, your D has to score points for you, your ST has to score points for you, your HC has to be perfect, your team has to have minimal injuries and none to key players, and your Run game has to dominate.
So unless we are dominant and nearly perfect in all other areas of the game, we won't be able to over come such inept play at QB, and anyone who has ever played at a competitive level understands this. There is a reason the QB gets all the credit and all the blame, because his performance has more impact on the outcome of a game than any other single position.
Also, I posted in caps that this thread is not to speculate on what Trent MAY become in the future, it is a direct recap and analysis of what held us back the most in 07 and 08...how anyone can argue differently after seeing the meesly production is shocking to say the least...
One last thing, this isnt a thread about Trent, its about our QB's combined...thats both JP and Trent...
Kiper likes Cassell over Stafford and Sanchez
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
I wonder who's value would be higher...Brady is obviously an Elite QB, but coming off such a devastating knee injury that has had setbacks in his recovery, I wonder if Cassels trade value will be higher going into the draft given such uncertainty about Brady's knee.