Alphadawg7
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Posts posted by Alphadawg7
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Based on these facts I think Trent will start and play well:
In the Nfl if you start and win you get the win, so in Trents case that about evens out based on JP injuries and his. With that:
Trent's win vs loses are
5-4 in 2007
7-7 in 2008
2-5 in 2009
14-16 career win/lose.
Now in those starts he has a career 61.3 completion %.
Now flip a coin on the following games that the defense and special teams help lose:
2007 Cleveland
2008 Cleveland
2009 Cleveland and Monday night meltdown NE.
I kept the Dallas meltdown a lose, because he threw 3 int's.
With these four games he is 18-13 career win/lose and he plays more games.
Also with a weak OL you have to Checkdown in this league. Even with playoff teams OL's Rodgers and Ben got put on thier back 87 times and 143 times respectively over the same three years and Fitz was sacked 59 times over the last two years (he has no 2007 stat's) against Trent's career sacks of just 58.
Now add Chan's coaching and I think he does well.
I know stats are for losers, but is he really a loser or was he in a "No Win" situation and produce well for 3 year guy?
LMAO...dude, Trent was a main reason we lost those games you listed...not to mention, many of those wins you credit him for we got because of our D and ST, not because of Trent who played bad in many of those wins.
Trent has been atrocious in way more games than he has been good in. The completion % is an illusion, just watch the games rather than google stats. He is not very accurate throwing past 10 yards and sees his completion % significantly boosted as a direct result of all the chekdown short throws and screens.
The BIGGEST Bills myth of all time is definitely Trents accuracy. His passes dont hit recievers in stride, often flutter, puts way too much air on med to deeper balls allowing DB's to make plays on the ball or tackle the WR immediately, throws them too high/low/short, etc.
This guy has not been nearly as accurate as people want to believe because his % looks good on paper. All you have to do is stop and think how many times our recievers were able to catch the ball in stride and make plays after the catch...not very often.
Who knows, maybe Chan can help him take a big leap forward, lord knows we need someone too. But, his past performances have shown him to not be very accurate on med to longer throws nor has he demonstrated a good enough ability to read defenses and time his throws.
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This article is a classic example of how easy it is to report whatever you want without having to validate it to be true. I can post the same article claiming players have told me that Troy Brown is top of the pecking order going into camp. It means nothing and cant be proved or disproved. This guy who wrote it is known for gibberish...
I will wait until I hear something from Gailey for one...more importantly though, this will be a full open competition regardless of who is listed atop the initial "pecking order". There has to be someone listed first, and who it is doesnt really mean squat becaue the QB battle will be won and lost during the preseason and camp, not our OTA's.
So, I dont understand the concern about who will be listed first initially, because it ultimately is irrelevant as the battle has just begun for QB1
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4) Brohm has a lot to prove, coming off his record setting junior season in Louisville, and then falling off enough his senior year to cause him to drop into the second round of the draft before Green Bay selected him, a team that already had Aaron Rogers as their established Favre replacement anyway.
Good post, but actually, he did not drop off his Sr. year, it was by far his best year as a QB statistically. Louisville dropped off and finished 6-6 because they no longer had a defense that could stop a high school. Brohm had a couple of bad games trying to force things while playing catch up, but overall he had by far his best statistical season.
He threw for 1000 more yards, 13 more TD's, and raised his comp % from 63.6% to 65.1%. His QB rating did drop a few points because his ints went up from having to play catch up so much, but was still 151.73 and still had 29tds to only 12ints.
The reason his stock fell was because Louisville finished 6-6 and Ryan and Flacco were also shooting up the boards.
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+1
Do we really need to find some obscure stat to make us feel like Edwards is any good ?.
Kelly was cocky and had just as much as an ego to match it. He was vocal (wrong or right) on the fields as well as off.
But he also believed he could win all by himself and never doubted his abilities. He had the fire and will to win and his teammate believed and followed him.
Other than the fact that they both wore the same uniform, they are miles apart.
+1 ^^^what he said exactly^^^
I find it so comical how so many people try and find some pathetic link in some statistical category or playing style of the greats to somehow give Edwards potential or make him look good.
Come on now, its not just about his stats...watch the games. This guy has poor field vision, lacks poise, seen his confidence get shaken big time, terrible timing, checksdown even on 3rd and long, an ugly med to deep game, and doesnt know how to throw to WHERE the reciever will be open in a defense and instead tends to wait until the WR is open (which in the NFL means the WR will no loinger be open upon delivery of the ball).
Does it mean he cant improve...no...but all these threads trying to find statistical comparison to greats like Montana, Kelly, Brees, etc are just terrible. Trent has never had any of that swagger nor their talent. Doesnt mean he cant be turned around and be serviceable, I mean anything is possible. But come on with all these attempts to somehow link him to the greats.
And I get that a player needs time to develop, but Trent not only has not developed yet, but he has progessively gotten worse. I have never seen a guy live on his High School hype more than him. Lets see...
-He hasnt had a single healthy season since High School.
-He has just ONE 300 yard passing game since High School.
-He hasnt been a winner since High School. I mean, his last year at Stanford, they won ONE game and it was the one game he did NOT play in since he was hurt...he played in every other game and they lost each one.
This guy has been a "potential" guy his whole life...he wasnt very productive in College nor did he win a lot of games and has been even worse in the NFL. Thats a long time to just get by on his high school hype because he certainly hasnt done anything impressive at any level since High School.
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Yeah, can we please get back to bashing me? People fighting over what Chan meant when he said XXXXXXX is rediculous.
lol...one, my OP wasnt a bash on you and 100% bash on the reporter
Two...I was shocked to come back to thread and find a page and a half debate on the meaning of Chans words which were pretty obvious to begin with...then again, I dont know why I was shocked considering who it was and the fact it was on this board...lol
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Did I deny that Chan said it? Please point out where I did so I can remove that. Thanks.
And you can say whatever you want, but there is a clear distinction between the two. Jamarcus "made a jump" a few weeks ago when he came into camp ready to fight for his job against Campbell and impressed...then that stopped, he sucked again, and is now in jail. No one went as far as to say he was "showing growth." "Showing growth" implies continuous improvement and expected further development. "He's made a jump" - and more importantly, "We'll have to see how he progresses once we get pads on and all that" - implies no such expectation of further improvement, but more of a cautious optimism of such. If you can't see the difference then I can't help you.
Dude, you are just being argumentive to be argumentive. Its clear as day that Brohm is clearly in the running for the #1 spot and that Chan feels like he has improved as it is well documented. The lame argument over the difference in the words "shown growth" or "made a jump" is comical that it has taken up half a page worth of posts.
Clearly Chan is referring to Brohm and his development when he said he has made a jump, which means the same thing as he has shown growth...but go ahead, keep arguing a pointless point because clearly thats your goal here...
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Just another jack a** reporter shooting off at the mouth because he clearly hasnt followed the Bills QB situation this offseason. The biggest indicator is that he says Brohm and Brown are looking more and more like practice squad material...that alone shows what a jack a** this guy is because if he was REALLY paying attention to the Bills battle he would know that Brohm is very much in the running for the #1 spot and has shown a lot of growth.
I mean, there is literally nothing to this story on any level worth reporting, yet he writes it as if Bufflao is looking to make this trade...
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Since the odds are 1/3 that Brohm will be the starter, you're safe in never being called out on an absolutely ridiculous statement.
I guarantee that if Brohm is named the starter, he won't get anywhere near those numbers. Projecting Pro Bowl numbers for a guy who has started one NFL game & stunk up the Georgia Dome in the process is insane.
There is one way you might be right-If you project the 10 games Brohm starts in the UFL to a 16 game season.
You're either Jeff Brohm or you've lost your mind.
I hear ya...but those would not get him to the Pro Bowl in the AFC even if he does produce those kinds of numbers.
And secondly, its not nearly as unrealistic as you think given Chans track record of what he has been able toget out of his past QB's, mostly QB's with very limited talent.
Like I said, I am no psychic, but I honestly think he has the potential to hit those numbers if he is the week ONE starter and starts the whole season. As I said, I think he will surprise some people...
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totally agree about brohm, except the int count, i'd bump that to b/t 10-14, but still 22 tds 12 ints and 3800 yds isnt too shabby
yeah...10-14 is probably a better estimate on the Int's in his first year...
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Fitz had better control of the team. TO responded better to him. The team as a whole faired better because Fitz was respected, tough, and smart. Does he win in the natural born talent evaluation? No. But does he make the right reads and lead the team? Yes
He may give us our best chance to win next year. Does anyone out there think starting trent or brohm give us a better chance to win? Trent gets hurt, doesnt throw downfield, and lost his job last year. Brohm has less experience at QB then my dog.
Based on last year, I think he gives us a better chance over Trent...however, thats just based on last year...I will wait to see how Trent and Fitz respond to Chans system. Who knows, maybe Chan can teach Trent some balls, and more importantly teach him how to progress through his reads, read defenses, and anticipate routes.
However, I think Brohm is just flat out a better QB prospect than either and I actually believe Brohm will give us a better chance to win even with the limited experience. He may only have one start, but he has also had the time to sit and learn, so its not like a totally inexperienced rookie. I may be wrong on Brohm, but I really do like his potential and think this guy could very well be a good QB in this league and just may surprise some people this season.
Again, only time will tell, I mean I am no psychic...but I just think he has a lot of potential to be good while Fitz and Trent just have low cielings.
I am not afraid to say it right here...I believe that if Brohm starts the full season I think he will throw between 22-25 TD's with 8-12 INT's...in his first year with around 3800 yards...
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I think it would be a great move for the Bills to sign Troy Smith. Considering that Trent is injury prone, it's important that the Bills have three quality players at the QB position (I'm a Trent fan, and I think he's going to get the starting job).
I think you make a really good point about Troy Smith getting sick at the wrong time. The fact of the matter is that he did win the Baltimore starting QB job over Joe Flacco.
I am from Columbus and went to every game that Troy Smith played in. I can tell you that he has the arm strength, poise, and pocket presence to be a successful NFL QB. Whether or not he can read defenses quickly and on a consistent basis is yet to be seen. However, the fact that he won the Baltimore job at one point makes it seem as though he can digest a complicated offense.
He never beat out Flacco...this is just fact, not even an argumentable topic. Worse yet to the delusions of Troy Smith in this thread is the fact that no one seems to acknowledge that despite playing in some games the year PRIOR to Flacco, they still felt he wasnt good enough and then used a FIRST ROUND pick in the next draft on Flacco. Troy was not going to be the starter for Balt and was still battling Boller even...
Flacco was named the week 1 starter because he is the BETTER quarterback and its not even a debateable topic.
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as much as id love for that to happen, i dont think so. age does matter. Freddie HAS been taking hits this whole time. It's not like he was just sitting around for 5 years in a plastic bubble. he HAS been playing football, it does not matter the level. it takes a toll on a body, and as you get older your body loses the ability to recover as quickly and to the point it was before. it's just simple science. we will be LUCKY if FJ is still on the team in 3 years, let alone contributing. again, id love to see it work out that way, but it's bad planning and management to ASSUME it will.
I get what you are saying...but, playing outside the NFL is no where near as violent as the NFL. Not to mention, he hasnt been a starter and has about half the wear and tear of other RB's his age despite being active in football the same amount of time. So, I really see him going strong for 3 more years. I mean he is only 29, but posters want to take yet another year off his career by claiming he is 30. 3 years down the road he will be 32...there have been lots of RB's who have taken twice as wear and tear has him that were very good through 32, so 3 years is really not out of the question and I fully expect him to be able to do it.
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WRONG!...He was named the starter. You have your facts wrong. The tonsillitis opened the door for 1st round pick Flacco and the QB of the future didn't screw it up and kept the job.
Come on...do you even get how rediculous this statement is? Balt is going to play the better QB...they are a SB contending team. If Troy was better than Flacco, he would have beaten him out. So, how on earth did tonsillites lose him his job?
And for all the other people foolishly claiming he lost the job from getting sick...You do realize he got sick just before the THIRD PRESEASON GAME after they ALREADY DRAFTED FLACCO right (not to mention Flacco was already the favorite to win the job to begin with). I mean, its not like Troy got sick and because of that they drafted Flacco. They thought so little of Troy after getting some starts the year before that they went out and used a FIRST ROUND pick on a QB.
Troy had his shot...it was NOT sickness that lost him the job. Flacco was a 1st round pick and the intent was to get him on the field. He beat out Troy because is a far SUPERIOR QB...
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I hear you, but I think it's because he's a young QB who got sick at the wrong time and, thus, really hasn't gotten much of a chance. Bulger is proven and Smith isn't yet. I guess the Ravens didn't want to take a chance that Sal Paolantonio is right.
A lot of us want a proven QB (I've seen the names Garcia & Campbell thrown around in this thread), but that QB comes at a price. It won't happen.
I can see this Troy Smith thing happening. He's saying the right things, but you have to believe he's not happy being relegated to the 3rd QB w/o being given much of a shot. Perhaps he needs the right offense? Hard to say, IMO. I wouldn't be surprised to see a trade for Smith, Brown being sent to the PS, and one of Edwards/Brohm being shown the door.
Ok wait...you think Troy wasnt given much of a shot, yet you want to show Brohm the door before giving him a shot? I find it so ironic when you and others say this because if Troy gets cut he essentially is traveling almost the exact path of Brohm where they have an entrenched starter and couldnt win the back up role. The difference is Brohm has a better NFL QB pedigre, was more highly regarded coming out, and had just 1-1/2 years in the league before we got him...not to mention Troy actually had a shot to play in Balt and wasnt impressive enough to keep Balt from drafting Flacco.
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errr 29 years old, will be one month shy of 30 by seasons end.
So, he is 29, not 30. Not to mention he has very little wear on his body for a 29 year old RB. Its not the age that causes the RB to slow down. Turning 30 doesnt make him run slower. What has been the achilles heal of 30 year old RB's has been all the pounding they have taken in the big and fast NFL for 8 or 9 years by the time they reach that age in an NFL career. That abuse is what breaks them down sooner than say a WR who often flourish into their mid 30's.
So many people are attached to this magic number for RB's as if its genetics...lol. FJ will be a good RB and be able to be productive for probably at least 3 more years, maybe more.
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Fitz might not provide hope, but he could provide Wins. I'll take that. 5-4 in 2009 with an idiot coach and an interim coach and a MASH unit for a team. Put him in an offense to take advantage of what he's got and our running game and scatback, and if our D can be decent, we could post a 10-6 or 9-7 record. Maybe Fitz doesn't have the tools of a QB like Manning or Marino, but he makes up for it in leadership and football smarts. Look at my signature below to see what a HOF QB thinks about leadership.
Get off of the franchise QB thing at least for now. We don't have it. We have to put ourselves in the best position to win without one. Fitz is the man.
I'm tired of baby sitting snot nose rookie QBs hoping someday they might be good.
Isn't anyone else?
First off, I am not saying Fitz cant be servicable...I was just simply stating why no one is pulling for Fitz.
Secondly, I would MUCH rather go with a young guy like Brohm if he can win the job than Fitz...and you should too. Because if we dont, then you are just going to have to watch a "snot nosed" rookie QB next year because I can pretty much say that if Fitz wins we will be drafting a QB next season. At least if Brohm wins, he provides the potential to step up and be a long term answer...and if he does, then we wont need to go QB early next year and can add more pieces elsewhere.
So, Fitz represents a lost year of not having a starter caliber QB if he wins just to find us trying to groom a young guy next year or enduring a partial year of crappy QB from someone like Fitz before the rookie takes over.
PS: What I am tired of watching is putrid QB play from players that are not going to be the QB of this team long term...
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Why is no one talking about Fitz in this race? Well the answer is simple...because no one wants him to win it. The reason is simple:
Brohm: Is unknown and was a highly regarded prospect...he offers at least potential to be a franchise guy.
Trent: Gaileys ability to get a lot put of less in terms of QB's still provides some hope Trent can develop into a quality starter under him...
Fitz: Not seen as a guy with the potential to be a long term answer by hardly anyone.
If Brohm wins, we suddenly have a young prospect with potential to shore up our QB woes...if Trent wins, well many will see it as one last shot for him to develop into a long term guy. Now if Fitz wins, that means our two best shots at a long term answer both couldnt get it done and we have to endure a seat warmer in Fitz until we find our guy next year.
So, Fitz offer little to no hope while the others do to some degree still...so no one wants Fitz to win because we are screwed if he does. We may be screwed no matter who wins, but at least the other provide some hope to a lot of fans...
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The point I was trying to make to WEO (and it can apply to any posters who bashed Hardy and Lynch and are defending Vick, or "setting the record straight" as the case may be) is that he didn't apply the same standard to Hardy or Lynch, despite lack of evidence in their cases. And neither did anything remotely close to what Vick did. Yet he went out of his way to fabricate fantastic scenarios as to why there was no evidence, while he went out of his way to defend Vick (and if you know WEO, if he doesn't care, he won't respond).
Gotcha...
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasnt the evidence against Lynch and Hardy indisputable and admitted by both? I could be wrong about that, but if memory serves me Hardy owned up to what happened and so did Lynch about the gun. I honestly didnt follow it closely...
And I am defintely not trying to make excuses for this fool Vick...like I said before, he has served his time and had time to reflect on his mistakes. For me to label him a habitual criminal I need to see those old habits return. Most of what he did in the past wasnt criminal, and what was criminal was also an accepted sport in his cultural upbringing. I am not supporting dog fighting, but I do also understand if you are raised to accept it that it can look very different in his eyes.
Again, its not like he was out conducting himself as a criminal. Poor decisions...YES...habitual criminal...not so much. Now if he regresses back to criminal activity during his second chance, then I will reconsider that opinnion. But as of now, he has done nothing wrong, and if you read the more recent reports, he showed great restraint and did the right thing walking away. So if anything, he has shown just the opposite.
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No, just pointing out the obvious misstatements in that post.
You can revise history at your leisure--it works for you, doc.
Everyone else can see that I am no supporter of Vick. He's a crappy passer and a punk.
Im with you...dont like the dude on or off the field...but that doesnt make him a habitual criminal
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Trent Edwards stats in his first regular season game:
10-20 97 yards 0 td 1 INT 1 sack QB rating 43.1, the Bills lost 38-7
Needless to say Trent had a full training camp and played in all 4 preseason games prior to appearing in his first regular season game.
Thats too many facts for him to process...
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Habitual implies criminal activity being a common occurrence. There's always going to be an argument as to what "common" means--it's a very elastic word. He's habitually in trouble with the law, he's habitually a "person of interest" in criminal cases....unfortunately he's also habitually rich enough to buy himself out of trouble. For my money a sure sign of Vick being a habitual criminal is the varied amount of offenses. It's not like Big Ben's annual rape trial (which is it's own habitual little problem), Vick has issues with drugs, sex, gambling and violence. That signifies a deeply troubled mindset. It's a borderline sociopathic (not really a word, but whatever) worldview that will end with this guy doing more jail time at some point in the future.
I hear ya and dont see anything wrong with what you are saying...for me though its that I have seen people worse than this guy make 180's after going through what he went through and getting a wake up call to just how destructive their behavior was and how many poor choices they made. For someone to be habitual to me would be someone who continues to go back to those ways...and until some information comes out indicating he has, I am not just personally prepared to label him a habitual criminal.
I still cant stand the guy though...but I just choose to seperate that from the discussion and look at only what is known...and right now, nothing is known to have occured to implicate him in anything yet. Like I said though, if it turns out he was involved, then drop the hammer on this guy and I would agree he is habitual.
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I wouldn't say Brohm is unproven, he started last year against Atlanta when Fitz and Edwards were injured. Now if I'm not mistaken Atlanta had one of the worst secondary's at the time and had some players injured.
17-29 -146 yards 2 INT's 2 sacks, the Bills lost 31-3
Needless to say with Fitz still nursing an injury they started him over Brohm in the next game, kinda says something to me.
LMAO...only you would use a single game to define a kids ability and completely IGNORE the very extreme circumstances he played under that I doubt there any QB in the NFL could have succeeded with in the exact same situation.
1. He was just acquired by our team and was still trying to learn a completely new system.
2. No NFL experience
3. A week to actually practice for the first time with a brand new time.
4. No timing of any kind with any player on the offense as he was brand new.
5. A decimated O Line...something you use for an excuse for Trent by the way.
6. Awful offensive game plan and terrible offensive coaching to prepare him to play in just one week...another excuse you use for Trent
The best part is that you make excuses for Trent being putrid based on a lot of the same things above, yet you dont do it for Brohm and just assume he is terrible because he was thrown into an impossible situation that just about any QB would have failed in.
Brohm was NO WHERE CLOSE to being ready to play for this team as he didnt even have the terrible system down yet. More importantly, the Team flat out said they had not intention of any kind of putting him on the field last year right wehn they acquired him...the only reason they did was because of injuries.
If you understood football you would understand that QB is the most complicated position of any sport to play and that you dont get ready to play (essentially as a rookie) in one week of practicing with the team, especially when you have never played a game in the NFL...
Not to mention the new HC was literally auditioning to keep the job, so he is going to put the guy out there more ready to play which isnt the guy who doesnt know the system, has no NFL experience, and has barely even practiced with the team.
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A list I found online regarding Vick's record with the police:
# Weed/marijuana hidden in the bottom of a water bottle at the Miami airport.
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Drug raids at a house he owned (which lead to fed finding a... )
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Dog fighting ring and animal cruelty towards 60 dogs in a house he owned.
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Settled a lawsuit filed by a former girlfriend who said he knowingly gave her a sexually transmitted disease.
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Vick surrounded himself with unsavory associates, two with criminal records for drug trafficking.
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Two friends of Vick pocketed someone's fancy watch at the Atlanta airport, the watch's owner said a Falcons executive offered him money to keep Vick's name out of a police report.
add of course last this latest nonsense. Seems pretty habitual to me.
I already said I dont like the guy...and I know his rap sheet...but this was before he was imprisoned and given a chance to rehabilitate himself and make changes in his life...all I am saying is that until he has been shown to have done something wrong now that he has served his time and been given a second chance to learn from his past then I think its extreme to call him habitual...
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Vick's a habitual criminal...not that far a leap to think he was doing something he legally wasn't allowed to do
Habitual criminal? Seems a bit extreme to label him that. Honestly, I cant stand Vick personally, and I am not about to make excuses for him and actually hate what he did. However, habitual criminal is a bit extreme. He has not done one thing since his release from prison that shows him to be a "habitual criminal"...
I get people hate what he did, and so do I, but I also don't think it qualifies him as a habitual criminal, especially given how accepted it was in his cultural upbringing.
I guess because I have seen so many people make 180's in their life (and many worse than Vick) and have been part of some of those transformations through some volunteer work I do that I prefer to have all the information before I make my assumptions on people or label them.
Trent Edwards - Your Expectations For 2010
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Whats with all the Trent threasds today? Did Chan come out and name him the unquestioned starter and I just miss it? I mean, seems like some weak writer wrote an article based on hear say from unidentified sources that Trent was going to be the top of pecking order when camp opens and all of a sudden this board is Trent crazy with threads.
1. No QB has been named the starter.
2. Who ever enters camp at the top of Chans pecking order still is NOT the starter as its still a full on QB competition.
3. Trent was always the guy most likely to enter camp at the top of pecking order anyway and by no means indicates he has won the job. Someone has to be at the top to start camp, but its still anyones job to win.