Alphadawg7
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Posts posted by Alphadawg7
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Here is the difference between the Trent apologists and the people critical of Trent. The apologists want to find anything they can to deflect the responsibility from Trent as they believe in him so much and want him to succeed. The ones highly critical of Trent want us to win just as badly but see Trent for what he has done on the field and dont believe in him to be a good QB.
That being said, the Trent apologists do seem to prefer to see Fitz fail so they can once again go back to propping up Trent, where the rest of us hate both QB's but want to have a better chance to win so they want to see Fitz stay there if he continues to do enough to keep us competitive and win some game then get a QB next year in draft or FA.
The big misconception about a lot, not all, of the people criticial of Trent is that we want him to fail. Dog14787 even posted stuff I wrote about him in 2008 showing my full support of him yet highlighting the weak areas he needed to improve. Problem is, he didnt improve any of them, got worse in other areas, and has really seemed to take big steps backwards since which is why I lost faith in him. I, like many others, would have loved for him to take a big step this year and become our guy because we need a QB and want to win...unfortunately his play was just an extension of his 2008 and he got worse.
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I made no attempt to put my own quantifications on this. I chose consistency by only counting each time the playbyplay (CBS) considered each guy to have thrown a deep ball so that both guys would be judged on identical merits. I'm guessing that CBS counted anything that went 20yrds in the air as a deep ball.
Simon, this I find interesting. You just said with certainty that they are about the same while using information that you have no idea what it represents. A "deep" ball may be 17 yards on that play by play listing for instance and you are comparing that to others that were 40 yards in the air. You have no idea how to evaluate that data as you have no point of reference of the length of each pass yet you come to certain conclusions and a decleration of falsehood.
More importantly, its not the "deep" ball people say Fitz does better. Its his pass attempts anywhere on the field to WR's...something Trent doesnt do very well. So, while I respect the effort spent looking this up it just doesnt provide any real insight on the difference between Trent and Fitz.
In retrospect, they both suck, but Fitz's ability to see the field better and slide in the pocket giving him time to attempt passes to our playmakers gives him the slight edge on who gives us a better chance to win at this current time for me.
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Wow, "Simon"! First of all, you must have a LOT of time on your hands, which I don't. However, here's a feeling I have that may or may not be accurate......maybe you could look it up to see if it's true or a falsehood.
It SEEMS that Fitzpatrick throws to his wide receivers (i.e. Evans and Owens) more on average per game than Trent Edwards does. I also KNOW that Lee Evans has 2 touchdowns in 1-1/2 games with Fitzpatrick at QB. This SEEMS to be a better average per game than with TE. 2 touchdowns in 1.5 games roughly equates to 21 touchdowns over a full season, whereas 1 touchdown with TE over 4.5 games equals about 3.5 touchdowns for a 16 game season. It also seems that there isn't as much "checking down" with Fitzpatrick than there is with TE (see catches by running backs and tight ends). No, I don't think Fitzpatrick is the long-term answer at QB for the Bills, but I DO think that he gives the Bills a better chance to win week in and week out right now.
^^^What he said^^^
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I don't know how many dozen times I've read how Fitzpatrick might be the better option right now because he was consistently willing to take shots downfield and get his WR's involved while Trent refuses to pull the trigger on any sort of long ball. It's been said so many times by so many different posters that's it's simply been accepted as a fact with no evidence to back it up. It didn't seem entirely accurate to me so I just went through the playbyplay of every Bills game this year to see whether or not this is true. And guess what, it isn't. The differential is so slight between the two that it is barely worth mentioning. According to their averages, Fitzpatrick throws downfield 0.3 times per game more than Edwards, which is just slightly above 1 more deep ball per month.
I made no attempts at subjectivity so I wouldn't be tempted to skew the numbers either way. These are purely objective numbers with no mitigating factors such as down/distance, field position, scoreboard or anything else taken into consideration. Just a simple average of how many times each guy goes downfield per game. And they are essentially the same.
Following is the number of down field shots they've each taken.
Trent Edwards:
Week #1 - 5 deep balls
Week #2 - 6 deep balls
Week #3 - 2 deep balls (the only anomaly for either guy)
Week #4 - 7 deep balls
Week #5 - 6 deep balls
This is 26 shots downfield in 5 games for an average of 5.2 attempts per game.
Ryan Fitzpatrick:
Week #6 - 5 deep balls
Week #7 - 6 deep balls
This is 11 shots downfield in 2 games for an average of 5.5 attempts per game.
The difference being a grand total of 0.3 deep balls per game or again, just slightly more than 1 deep ball per month.
Is it too much to ask that we stop spreading the inaccurate assumption that Fitzpatrick goes downfield more than Edwards? Can we possibly base our arguments in reality and maybe even move the debate forward by using truth as a basis for discussion? I'd say we're likely to come to more accurate conclusions if we can manage that.
And as always, this is a troll free thread.
Simon, its not the "deep" ball thats the difference, its the downfiled passing to WR's thats the difference. Downfield passing isnt a "deep" ball. Deep passes are a small part of an offense, its the short to mid routes to WR's that seperate Trent and Fitz.
More importantly, what your stat check doesnt show you is how often Trent bails on a play at the first sight of pressure and immediately looks to a short checkdown because of his inablility to slide in the pocket and shaken confidence. Fitz manuevers better in the pocket keeping the play alive longer giving his wideouts time to run their routes.
Comparing a deep ball to each of them is just a convenient way to skew the comparison.
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At the risk of completely derailing this thread, does anyone else listen to Dilfer on Cowherd's show? The guys football analysis is fantastic and he provides a "Jaws" like insight. I'm really getting hooked on his commentary.
He is another guy who thinks Locker is the guy who best projects to the NFL in this years draft too. He loves this kid. I would love to see us take him
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Curious to what answers will come up here with this question. I posed it another thread but it got lost in the shuffle. It pretty clear just about everyone thinks they both suck and we need a QB...but we are stuck with them both until the end of the season, so in the meantime:
1. What does Trent do better than Fitz?
2. What does Fitz do better than Trent?
3. Given your answers to 1 and 2, who do you feel gives us a better chance to win right now?
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Another thing to take into consideration with Fitz is the fact that he's shown to be a better passer in the 2nd half of games.
1st half: 6/19 for 62 yards
2nd half: 15/25 for 177 yards
Hopefully he can get off to a better start this week with another full week of reps with the first team as we cant afford a slow start against Houstons offense
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I'm sure our offense would look a lot better with a real OL, a real QB and and OC that wasn't hired a week before the season started.
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I agree to a point, but let's not go overboard. He only completed 11 passes
I think his point though was not how many he completed but how often our WR's were open. He may have been off target a bunch of those incompletions, but the WR he was throwing to was often open but he just made a bad pass, and that I think is the point being pointed out. The excuse before was that Trent didnt throw to them as they were not open. Fitz has shown our guys are open, even when he is off target on his throw.
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I'm not wearing rose colored glasses which was the other side to the statement I made. Who knows what Fitz can do with more than a week of first team reps with the ones? He hasn't nailed the starting job by COMPLETELY outplaying Edwards but it's a good start. Fitz passes the eyeball test in ways that Trent doesn't. Those points have been discussed. Teams win games as I say and that is why I never accepted the Trent apologist defense of "he just wins games".
I would rather have a guy at the helm that takes some chances and gives you a chance to win than a guy that gives you more of a chance for a safe loss.
Well said
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Same to you, why don't you find another forum to spread your BS Mr Flip Flop.
Ok, this is like the 8th post in a row I have said move on...
You seem to think me asking you to move on is somehow running from you, so now you dont want to stop. You fail to see, I am asking you to move on for the sake of the board as even though I find it hilarious to watch your pathetic attempts, they do not. If you want to continue on privately, message me...but for the last time, for the sake of the board please move on.
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1. DT
2. QB
3. LB
Huh? DT is our most pressing need? I am pretty certain we arent losing ball games because of our DT's who have been two of our better players this year.
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1. QB
2. OT
3. DL
4. LB
I say we dedicate all of our picks to these 4 positions...! Opinions?
My only switch is to move LB to 3 and DL to 4. Our DE's are good enough and and our DT's are solid enough to be able to address QB, OT, and LB first.
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You have zero respect for the board and that's exactly why I have zero respect for you Mr Flip Flop.
What part of move on is foreign to you?
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Except that one, you gotta love him for making **** up to try to obsessively prove his point. That's twice now within the last 12 hours.
btw, here's a nice article:
http://blogs.buffalobills.com/2009/10/26/b...leading-rusher/
Byrd was Buffalo’s leading rusher
Byrd’s two interceptions were one thing, but his return yardage on both of them is what was most instrumental to the victory.
He had 67 return yards setting the offense up on the Carolina 7 and the Carolina 27-yard lines for drive starts.
Come on now Magox, dont start now to. I didnt make anything up...I just said I didnt think he did...he corrected me, I acknowledged it. I watched the game on the internet yesterday as I was home cuz I let my girl throw a beach party here for her sister. I lost feed many times, you can even check the internet feed thread yesterday.
And the other thing you say I made up was when I said Trent was the lowest rated starting QB last year in the first halves of games...I meant to write amongst the lowest as I forgot what place he was actually, but its near the very bottom and you know this as I researched it and put in a thread for you in the off season. So excuse me if I said he was the lowest when he is really like the 4th lowest or something to that nature...
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We should definitely stick with Fitz, just for the simple fact that we have won 2 games in a row.
But...
Just for curiosity's sake, how many TD's has Fitz thrown in the two games he has played?
Also would you happen to know the average field position we had over the last two games in where we scored TD's?
Do you think that 10 turnovers on defense in the past 2 games played a signficant role in our victories?
Just wonderin.
To be fair on the TD's to Magox, that Evans catch that was over turned was BS as there was not conclusive evidence to overturn the ruling on the field. That was a perfect strike and if we retain possesion we are sitting on the 2. Then again yesterday with first and goal we dont try for a TD and kick a FG to ice the game. So, he could easily have produced 5 TD's in his first 1.5 games.
Those dont count on the scoreboard of course, but wouldnt you say it still shows promise of better scoring opportunities considering Trent led this offense on one TD drive since week 2 and hasnt had a first and goal since Week 1?
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I think he brought back one of his picks to the 7 yard line?
Did he...I was not aware he did as my feed kept going in and out yesterday, so I must have missed it. I know for sure Fitz drove us there once (maybe twice) too though.
I do love Byrd though...cant say enough about him.
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You get called out on something and now you want me to move on after you have harassed me for as long as you have been posting. I can go back months to here this same dog14787 flip flops and now I've busted you doing the same thing all of the sudden its no fun anymore, well to bad isn't it.
Dude...you have shown nothing...not a single thing. You brought up posts from 2008 BEFORE Trent played his way out of favor with me...I am not telling you to move on because you "got me", I am telling you to move on to spare the board of this rediculous banter...despite how hilarious and entertaining I find destroying you and your gibberish, its annoying to the board.
So for the last time, MOVE ON ALREADY out of respect for the board dumbass
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Ba Ba Ba Byrd Byrd Byrd Byrd is the word
I dont recall Byrd giving us a single first and goal...
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Accept for throwing to WRs, the TDs and the wins....you might have something there.
Thats what I dont get...people look at yards and stuff as if Trent was piling them up, which he wasnt. Then they ignore Fitz led us on 3 TD drives in 1.5 games, and it could have easily been 5 if the Evans catch isnt over turned on the 2 (which I thought was BS) and at the end of the game yesterday when we had first and goal and just ran the ball to run the clock and kick a FG to end game. We were not even trying for a TD there...just protecting the ball, run the clock and get a FG to ice the game rather than risk a turnover.
Our offense had 1st and goal once all season until yesterday and that was in NE...we had it a couple times yesterday. So, give me the guy that puts us in position to get points is my take.
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Awww, poor baby, don't cry
I've put you on ignore before, but it doesn't do any good unless you lay off my posts. I'm not going to have you constantly bringing up this flip flop BS on my posts without bringing up your BS, got it.
So lay my posts or I'll keep bringing up your stupidity.
Wheres the proof about your college days, thought you wouldn't have anything to say about it, especially any proof because your are nothing but BS.
4 years playing College football, good grief talk about BS.
man, you are so pathetic...for the last time, just move on dude, seriously...bandit was right
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So far from what I've seen from Fitzpatrick, he reminds me of when Trent Dilfer came in for the Ravens in the 2000 season. Dilfer wasn't a great QB and the offense stalled a lot during the game, but Dilfer made 2 to 3 key plays on offense and the Ravens won the game. So far, that's the same style we've seen from Fitzpatrick. Even though it's frustrating seeing that kind of play from our offense and QB, but if we keep winning games, I'll take it and hope the coaches don't screw it up like the Ravens did the following year bringing Grbac.
I hear ya, although, I dont know if I would say Fitz is quite on that level yet. Dilfer actually got better and was solid as the year went on and had a good playoff run. A lot of people mock him, but he was actually pretty solid most of the season on a team that really had little offensive weapons outide of Lewis and Sharp. He wasnt going to make the Pro Bowl, but he was solid. Like you said, look what happened when they made the change next year to Grbac.
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For 6 million a year the passes dont have to be "right on target"
There is a falsehood running rampant on this board
in The Stadium Wall Archives
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He has had some drops, but even if they dont drop them he is still in the 50's in terms of completion percentage. So, yeah, he definitely needs to work on that. Seems for every great ball he throws he throws one or two head scratchers that arent even close. Luckily some of those great throws were to Evans who capitalized.