Alphadawg7

Lol...its in black and white all over this board. This is so ironic because all you have done is project your personal evaluation to be that of the masses. If you think anything other than a tiny percent of the fan base does even 10% of the deep diving you do then you are naive.

I know what separation is. I know it isn't a 40 thing. This is not about me or any evaluation I have on Keon or disputing anyone elses evaluation on Keon. The discussion is what the MASSES believe. And the masses across the entire NFL fan base do NOT understand how insignificant the 40 time is, which is why it's the single most talked about event at the combine each and every year. The majority of the Bills fan base was not out there evaluating players and watching film before the combine. The most common concern amongst the masses was he was too slow...and because he is too slow, he won't separate and that is why they believe he did not separate in college.

Lol...yes there is. And that is becasue they think he is too slow lmao...dude let it go.

This right here...absolutely. To be honest, I almost started a thread on him and how he may have been the best addition that no one is talking about. I am still personally a little concerned with depth a bit if injuries occur because so much is unproven in real games behind our starters, but I am definitely less concerned than I was when camp started as we have seen these guys have strong camps and preseasons so far.

Again...pre-draft discussion is a SMALL group compared to post draft hot take reactions by the masses. We are discussing the majority, not the few that did their own pre-draft analysis deeper. I am not at all disputing your assessment, or that of anyone else who did deep pre-draft work, and I was also part of that group. We are talking about the majority here and what the top concern/complaint has been. And that is the perception he is slow, where the biggest contributor to that belief was his 40 time.

He has no value in trade IMHO I agree, I thought coming into camp Elam needed to flash to stay both in competition and on this roster by week 1. If he didn't show significant progress I thought Beane would look to move him before his value all buy disappeared by sitting and not playing a 3rd year. But he came out strong in OTA's and built on that in camp to where he is legitimately competing to start after a very good camp and looked good in preseason too. And my biggest concern on the whole team entering camp was CB depth as we had nothing to be confident in behind the top 3 guys, so any injuries things would get sketchy. So between his strong showing and being this close to the start of the season, I doubt they would trade Elam now. Side note: I agree with your list too. Hardy is for sure making the roster IMHO, he has played well at CB even on the outside despite his smaller size.

Don't do the twisting words game so many do around here to save a bad take. That is beneath you. You were wrong when you said only 8 mentions about it in 6 pages...I mean there were 6 refences to him being slow on page 1 alone of 109 page thread of which is just one thread of dozens on him. And in those 6 pages, the number 1 complaint was he is slow. And the NUMBER ONE reason people think he can't separate is because they think he is SLOW. Why you are still going on about this is still is wild, especially when I threw out 4 times now to agree to disagree. There is no confusion. So tell me, what is the number 1 reason why people don't believe he can separate in the NFL? Because they feel he is too slow. I mean why do I have to even spell this out at this stage is beyond me. And I am as involved in the pre-draft process as anyone around here.

Ray Davis I had ranked as the third best RB in the whole draft, been a big fan of his game. Doesn't mean Allen isn't a good prospect or can't have a good career too, but I am riding with Davis.

Gunner you are a great poster and I respect you. But if you think that reading 6 pages of one 109 page thread is making a logical case, then you are just saying things to just say things now. If you think assuming every comment that said they did not like the pick WITHOUT citing WHY automatically means it had nothing to do with speed...then you are again just saying things to say things. None of that is logic let alone a logical case. Furthermore, it was not just 8 times in 6 pages as you claimed...I just went through it again, there were 6 references to him being slow or compared to slow players on the very first page alone. And over the 6 pages, amongst the negative comments (which the majority were negative reactions) that actually said something that indicated what they didn't like about him, speed was the most common reason by either directly stating it or comparing him to Funchess, Kelvin, etc to reference how slow they see him as. I have not ignored anything...you just haven't presented anything to dispute the fact that people were not up in arms about his speed, and what little you did provide was incorrect So...For the 3rd time, lets just agree to disagree because this is maybe the 2nd most unnecessary conversation I have been in this offseason.

No...its not. The majority DON"T cite WHY they hate the pick in those first pages. You don't get to take all the "I hate this pick" and dismiss it has anything to do with speed just because they didn't state in that one comment within minutes of him being drafted. You act like those people didn't continue to comment in that thread and others where they did say what they didn't like, and it predominantly came down to speed. People think he can't separate...because they don't think he is fast enough...because he ran a slow 40 at combine...despite the fact he ran fast in other drills. I honestly can't believe we are still even talking about this. Again...just gonna have to agree to disagree like I said in my last post because there is a 0% chance you are going to convince me, or even make a logical case for, that the most talked about issue with Keon has not been about him being too "slow".

I have read it too…first comment in the thread was about his speed as were several others. The vast majority don’t specify why they hate it just that they hate the pick. But it keeps getting talked about as the thread goes on and in dozens of other threads from that point on. I can believe we are even discussing this TBH. We will have to agree to disagree that Keons 40 time was not the catalyst for a majority of the initial negative views on him and just move on.

Im not saying it has no place on the board or isn’t a valid thread, but I don’t know I would call a thread about someone’s feelings “excellent” discussion either.

So a thread about someone whining about his down enthusiasm is "excellent" discussion now? That might be the most peak offseason comment I have seen. The games can't start fast enough IMO

Gunner...come on...this is a silly disagreement here. What is the number 1 concern on Keon? Can he separate...where did that concern originate...off his 40 time for the majority. Go read the draft pick thread, not one now where opinions and assumptions were already made that originated from his combine 40 time.

Keep in mind, these are just the ones he posted. I watched the All-22 and Keon had even more than these.

We live in an instant gratification society. Patience is no longer a commodity. And we also live in a society where everyone on the internet thinks they know better and are the experts. They guess right one time, and it validates that and makes them forget the 100 times they were wrong, so now they are the experts and the professionals are the idiots. Even Pats fan turned furious, whiney, and negative once their 20 year run was over as if they didn't just get 6 SB's in that span. Welcome to the age of social meida and the internet where everyone is a star and everyone is an expert.

This is make or break year for Burrow IMHO to remain in the top 4 conversation. There is a lot to like about Burrow, don't get me wrong. But he leans on his receivers more than anyone on the list where he throws a lot of 50/50 balls. Last year he wasn't playing well before going down for the season either. His playoff numbers are pedestrian and it was a team effort that got them to a SB where they lost with the ball in his hands. Not saying he isn't a top 10 QB regardless...but if he wants to hold onto his top 4 position, he needs to have a great season and most importantly stay healthy.

While I agree that for the offense to be better than last year, it will take Kincaid and Shakir continuing to ascend in their bigger roles this year. But it’s not just them IMHO, but also a large part of this falls in the shoulders of Brady. He’s rolling out his offense this year and it comes with a new philosophy of “everyone eats” this year, which means it’s going to be also integral that he gets Keon, Samuel, our RBs, etc all involved and in positions to succeed as well. More importantly, he needs to help out Josh in position to successful and make good decisions to reduce the turnovers.

Still not the majority, I was in all those discussions too. Pre draft the talk was minuscule compared to after we took him. Pre-draft discussions are more informed discussions because it’s by those who invest time into the players and discussion. Post drafting him it’s all the hot take reactions and the vast majority based that initial reaction on his 40 time. Just read the threads. Again, I am fully aware some of us had deeper thoughts (good or bad), but to think the hot take mob does is just not accurate.

Um...yeah no he still wasn't bro

You guys do realize you are 2 people right and are not the majority? To deny Keons 40 time was not the most talked about, the biggest complaint, etc is false history. Just because you two had deeper and/or earlier thoughts does NOT translate to the mass response doing the same. There is a thread dedicated to mocking his combine 40 time and that pops up in every thread about him. In fact, the VAST majority didn't even mention anything other than 40 time until they heard other peoples additional concerns which they just repeated and echoed WITHOUT actually doing any of their own research because it supported their initial dislike based on his 40 time. Sorry...but you are wrong on this. I totally get, know, and accept you both had deeper thoughts, but you absolutely do not represent the majority on this in regard to this board, social media response, media, etc. where his 40 time is the unquestioned most debated and discussed concern about him.

The cap investment is a misleading stat. When you have a lot of young players, your cap is down. Our top 3 targets this year are a rookie, 2nd year player, and 3rd year player all on rookie deals. And lets not pretend that large of a cap investment by KC was in the WR room because it was far less than what the Bills were spending on WR's the past 3 years. No disrespect (as I do respect you as a poster)...but this is cherry picking data and creating a picture that doesn't match the story. You can't sit here and rant about WR investment then cite how much KC spends on their offense in general knowing full well that money isn't going to their crap room of WR's the past 2 seasons. That money is going to Mahomes, Kelce and the OL. They used their first-round pick twice in 5 years on a WR and 3 if you count Kincaid. I don't want to argue the ridiculous semantics with anyone that "Coleman was a 2nd rounder"...everyone knows it was their first-round pick and Beane confirmed he was taking Coleman before he got the Panthers to switch one spot. So yeah, the history books will show he was a 2nd rounder, but lets not play games and pretend it wasn't really our first round pick we invested in Keon. And no offense, who cares about the other WR's taken? Literally has no relevance whatsoever given the Bills elected to pass on them as they clearly were not their target. Beane moved back and picked up extra capital and still got the guy they seemed to have wanted. But because you don't like Keon you disapprove of it, which is fine, but for the Bills they were celebrating because they got their guy still and extra draft capital. Time will tell if it was the right guy or not...but at least so far, Keon is having one of the best camps of any WR in the draft, which at this time of year is all you can really hope for until we get to see him in real games. Sorry this is wrong. You keep wanting to eliminate the history that doesn't support your opinion by omitting the first (and 4th) they invested to get Diggs. So no, it wasn't a streak of those 4 defensive players. That is a real transaction to get a top tier WR, it doesn't get to be omitted because it doesn't support your case. As for the rest of the post...not gonna get into it, as you said, no need to relitigate differing established opinions on Coleman as its perfectly ok to have those differing opinions given he has never taken a real NFL snap. So I respect your different opinion on him and lets just hope he proves your concerns wrong on the field, because if he does, then this team has an excellent young nucleolus to build on moving forward with him, Shakir, Kincaid, Cook, and Davis. If he doesn't, then I expect you will be pleased next year as I would think Beane makes a big move at WR if this doesn't work this year. Which, I am pretty sure everyone will be fine with and on board with as well.

It’s ok to disagree, we all just have opinions right now. To be honest, I think that it comes down to those like you felt like they should have gone over the top in the priority…basically meaning ignoring other holes on the team to put even more resources into the pass catchers. But they still made a weapon for Josh the first priority the last 2 seasons and extended Diggs to still be here until things had to change this offseason with him. Offense overall has been the priority 3 years now…facts are the facts…Beane has prioritized the offense the last 3 years overall in terms of premium draft picks. I mean one draft was all offense except 2 picks. And in that process he’s drafted Cook, Shakir, Kincaid, and Keon…our current core of young weapons with only Shakir not being an early pick. As far as Keon goes, 40 time is categorically the biggest complaint on Keon around here even if it’s not yours. I mean there is even a thread dedicated to slow jokes that also now spills into any thread where Keon is discussed. Maybe you specifically have more complaints/concerns, but even you I doubt has as much skepticism had Keons first 40 time been faster at combine (and it was a lot better at his pro day). And make no mistake…40 time is not remotely as important as the vast majority of this board makes it out to be. Now I am not saying you, but the vast majority of those constantly saying Keon can’t get open literally have zero clue how a WR gets open and just spout random false things to support their bias. Silly part is, none of this means anything at all. It means we don’t know what Keon will do, just many of us are not ready to declare the kid a bust, wrong pick, etc before he’s taken an NFL snap. Just like I’m not gonna sit here and tell you he’s the next great WR either. I like his potential because I like his tools, elite traits, and the mindset and commitment to be great. I like betting on those guys…not guys like Leggette who so many wished we took who already said he wished he studied harder in camp. Give me the guys that will leave it all out on the field trying to reach their potential like Keon and Shakir all day over guys who don’t have that gear. Cheers…go bills

Back to back seasons the Bills used their first pick in the draft on a pass catcher. How has it not been a “top priority” when they have used literally their most valuable offseason asset for a weapon to catch passes for Allen the last 2 seasons? No one would be saying this had Bills made a small move up for Brian Thomas Jr. So, IMHO It’s not that they didn’t prioritize it, it’s because you and others don’t like the Keon pick and haven’t gotten over it yet. Let’s be real, the vast majority of the panic and negativity is coming from people who didn’t like the Keon pick and don’t think he can be a WR1 …and it’s coming before he’s played an NFL snap…and 90% of that doubt is coming off a 40 time that really doesn’t matter and that he significantly improved when he ran it again.

Preseason isn’t for the fans, entertainment, or showing your hand in terms of plays, creativity, etc. They don’t game plan for these games. It’s for the coaches to see the players in a more live scenario than just practice. No disrespect, but just don’t get why people complain about preseason or things being vanilla. I mean just don’t watch. You don’t have to take away evaluation tools because you do find it entertaining.