Alphadawg7

It’s pointless to argue talent between two players based on yardage totals when targets are drastically different. Both Mooney and Samuel had been saddled most of their career with poor QB situations. Debating whose was worse is a pointless exercise like arguing over whose dogs poop smells worse. Samuel IMO was the better signing for our team both in fit, history (Brady connection), and contract (based on our cap issues this year). Arguing which player is the “better” player before seeing either play with a credible QB is going to accomplish nothing until we see them play with real QBs.

This is why I was telling people yesterday not to sleep on Hollins when some saw that MVS got some run with the 1’s. Both Allen and the coaches love Hollins and he is not only a credible receiver, but he does all the dirty work too like blocking and going all out every play. It’s also why I said Hollins is directly in Claypools way, so if Claypool wants to climb the depth chart he first has to find a way to get ahead of Hollins…which won’t be easy.

You want to see them both have their moments. It’s good to see the D adjust and make some plays and the offense do the same. If one side dominates all camp it generally means the other side may have some issues

It’s amazing to me that the hard core naysayers don’t even understand the kind of potential Brady has with variations and creative designs with this unique and diverse group of size and skill sets.

Agree with all this...although I wouldn't go so far as say "highly" unlikely he starts Day 1. I agree the odds favor him starting the season as a backup or in specific packages, but I don't think the guys ahead of him are good enough to where he has little chance to over take them come week 1.

But I heard here he can't catch, has short arms, and is just a role player 😂

I think people are jumping to conclusions and assumptions too much off McD's comment. I think it was just a general comment pertaining to rookies more than anything. Nothing he said struck me as if he was saying that Bishop has been out of shape at any point. Could just be that Bishop maybe wasn't around the facility as much and maybe training else where and more that McD didn't know where he was at yet until he gets out there. Nothing about Bishop at any point strikes me as someone who is out of shape or would come in out of shape, so just IMO feel this comment is being made to likely be more than it is. But who knows, just the way it came across to me is all

Probably because he rents instead of owns

Meh...these happen all the time

I think this is why no one should get to up or down on anything early in camp. Lost in all the obsession of talking about the people catching passes is the fact that we are looking at a massive overhaul in our secondary this year and it will take time for them to adjust and gel. 3 of our opening day starters are gone from last year in Hyde, Poyer, and Tre...all of which were very good players for this defense both in skill and leadership. So not a surprise to see the offense eat on day 1 with a secondary whose only returning week 1 starter from last year is coming off an injury and isn't even a lock to start as he battles Elam who had a strong OTA's so will be given the chance to compete. Today was the offenses day...and there will be days it belongs to the defense like we saw in the OTA's. But...I will say how thin overall we are in the secondary is still a big concern of mine, more so at CB than anything where we don't have much behind our projected top 3 guys.

I agree that SVPG opening the season as the starter, while possible, is unlikely. McD tends to not rush rookies along when there are guys ahead of him who can start, so barring injury or a drastic issue on the interior OL rearing its head during preseason, odds are that SVPG will start the season off as a backup. However, I fully believe they love SVPG's potential and drafted him because they feel he has the potential to compete to be the future at the C position here long term. Like when they drafted Shakir to be the future of the slot position but also brought back McKenzie and Crawford so they wouldn't have to lean on a rookier early. And C is a key position with the QB at the LOS, so not having to lean on a rookie there I am sure definitely Plan A.

Guess what you won't see...any of the usual suspects here in the training camp thread liking or commenting on any of the positive news today. It is day 1, nothing will be proven or disproven with any single day of camp/practice/preseason. But to not even as a fan take in some enjoyment from seeing a positive start is the same thing they do all season long where they barely post, if at all, in a week with a big win and then all over the board flaming everything and everyone in a week with a loss. If the news today was bad, they would be ALL OVER that negative stuff in here and they know it. Whether true or not, it just comes across as an insistence on being right about their negative bias than actually really wanting to see the team/players prove them wrong. Nothing wrong with with having a negative opinion or view on any Bills topic...but maybe now that camp is open they should just put the bias and agenda in the background and smile and enjoy the good stuff when it happens too 👍

I wouldn't overlook Hollins...not only is he a credible receiver, but he brings very good blocking to the table, which is something we lost with Davis. If MVS is in that fourth spot per se, he might see more targets, but he also may see his snaps divided more with Hollins for his blocking abilities. This is why I think people are really hoping to see Claypool shine because he can bring the most to the table as a receiver and has the size and strength to also be a physical blocker. But, he clearly is coming in behind MVS and Hollins, and right fully so given he has a lot to prove and was a late addition to the team as well.

I don't know what got more beaten to death this offseason...peoples false interpretation of his speed or this mistaken notion he is just a "contested catch" type WR, which is the naysayers way of saying he is too slow to be anything else. That is a total mischaracterization of him, and it has never been about "contested catches" with Keon and that completely ignores the actual elite traits Keon brings to the table. What it is really about is CATCH RADIUS. People constantly confuse contested catches with this, they are not the same thing. Keon brings elite traits to the table of size, athleticism, body control, and hands. This isn't about giving Allen a guy who he just throws jump balls too, it gives Allen large windows of where he can put the ball out of harms way where only Keon can get to it and can make the play. This play above is exactly that, this isn't a jump ball, this is a play being made by a guy with exceptional body control to where he can get around to make the catch while keeping his feet in bounds. And the sooner people realize to not keep focusing on this false notion is just this slow guy who is only here for 50/50 balls the sooner they realize what his real potential is and how it can help Allen.

It’s early, but encouraging way to open camp especially since in past years the offense typically started slower than the defense. While it was great to see all the great tweets about the people catching passes from WR’s, TE’s and RB’s…it’s early and no pads. What I really loved coming out today was all the stuff about Brady’s offense and what it looked like. It’s exactly the kind of thing I was hoping to see. Again, it’s early and no pads, but the routes, designs, movement, etc that was being tweeted about was encouraging.

I had him as my 3rd best RB in the draft, loved landing him and can’t wait to see him in live game action in this offense

Except it’s not. You don’t know, you think. There is a massive difference. Stop selling your guesses as a fact. Brady may flame out…or he may head the best offense in the league. You dont have a clue, just your biased opinion because we didn’t draft the WR you wanted or trade for the WR you wanted so your guess is that we are doomed. But you literally have no idea how well or poor Brady will do this year, just like the rest of us. PS: You also just compared Brady, an OC, to mostly head coaches.

Have you ever not been hostile in a post before on here? Your objective in every post with everyone is to be as hostile as possible. And you misread things a lot because of it. I explained what I meant, but you do you boo 😘

I can see that, but from a target share standpoint I still think no one is projecting him to be above Rice, Kelce, and Brown.

I didn't say it was a "Fact" he is a backup...I said "projected to be a backup". The fact was clearly about the draft capital investment.

I didn't act like that...how many times are you going to mistake what I say as if I said something else? Fact: Bills turned their ONE pick at 28 into 3 players who have starter potential in Keon, Davis, and SPVG. Are you disputing that? Fact: Chiefs used their 1st and 3rd to get one player: Worthy - who is projected to be a backup WR and the 4th target for the Chiefs behind Rice, Hollywood and Kelce. I did not say the Bills got all the picks from KC, I said that is what Buffalo turned their one 28th pick into as OPPOSED to just drafting Worthy at 28...you know the ONLY way to assure that KC didn't draft him. And then I showed the amount KC invested to actually get him. So we took 1 first round pick and turned it into multiple picks to get 3 potential starters...they used 2 premium picks to get 1 backup WR. That was the point.

I mean, Worthy is a lot thinner than Devonta. Devonta isn't big, but he has a sturdier and thicker frame than Worthy who really is one of the thinnest WR's I have seen in a long time. Nor is Worthy the same level of prospect coming out as you mentioned. He isn't an elite deep threat though...he is a rookie with potential to be one, but he has not established that at all yet. Also, KC's game is not the deep ball anyway, they pass more near or behind the LOS than most anyone in the league going back to when Hill was even there. And nobody likes seeing a rival get weapons, agreed. But also, who cares, that is outside of our control and pointless to dwell on it. Who they draft is on them, it is not our GM's job to take players lower on his board and draft them to keep them from being drafted by a rival. His job is to draft the players he feels are the best options for the team for what they are looking for based on their scouting and final board. The only way to keep Worthy from KC was to draft him, and clearly we didn't want to draft him or would have. And look at this way...Beane literally turned the 28th pick into Keon Coleman, Ray Davis, and SPVG. Chiefs turned their 32nd and 3rd round pick into just Xavier Worthy. I would take Keon, Davis, and SPVG...3 players who not only could see big roles this year, but all have long term starter potential over a stick figure framed WR whose probably more a WR2 or WR3 in the NFL than he is a lead WR1. So worrying about who KC drafted is a waste of energy IMHO. Especially for a team who has a poor track record with WR's lately.

To directly answer this question, yes I do. Like anyone, its just a guess though as so much is new as we all know. I think the better quesion is...Do I think it means a whole lot...no I don't. 2 guys around 900 yards in a 17 game season with Josh Allen does not at all sound far fetched...nor impressive. I am only discussing it because this 2 in the top 32 thing has taken on a life of its own the last handful of pages here. Well that has more to do with the target distribution and group makeup where Cole lost a step, Gabe was splitting time for a couple years, Kincaid arrived to divide the non Diggs targets further, etc. And remember it is 241 targets to redistribute just from Diggs and Davis. I do agree with you about this. Which is why I am kind of just like why all this wasted energy about 2 guys in the top 32...that doesn't really mean much, it won't take much to make happen most likely based on the 3 year averages to do so since going to 17 game seasons. So if you were to ask me...yes I do think we will have 2 in the top 32. But I also think that tells me nothing about the quality of our offense. If one guy has 1250 yards, and another has 1075 yards...odds are, we might still have a pretty good offense. But if that was we had one guy get 907 yards and another 892 yards with the other guys lagging further behind in the 300-600 range...well then I think the offense is not going to be good enough because we won't likely have a D like KC had last year to be able to still win a SB with the offense they had.

How many of you watched the show "Receiver" yet on Netflix? If you haven't, go watch like the first 3 episodes. Go look at the pain Kittle, Davante, Deebo, and St. Brown are in off routine and regular hits who are all considerably stronger and bigger than Worthy. Go see what it really is like for receivers in the NFL on a daily basis...it gives you great insight. Then ask yourself if Worthy's light frame is going to be physical enough to not only play within that physicality but also endure it. It is a real question mark for him. Worthy got to go to a place where he can be WR3 behind the bigger guys of Kelce and Rice. In Buffalo, we were more shopping for a potential WR1 and a guy who can bring some size and toughness to the outside spot as the other top 2 guys were Shakir and Samuel, neither seen as big enough to be primarily on the outside. So I just don't get how people can't see the difference between how one situation may good for said player, but that doesn't mean every situation would have been either. PS: It is also just pads and shorts, we have seen guys who don't make our rosters or play very little if they do make eye popping plays in shorts here...it doesn't mean a lot at this stage.

Couple of things...I have been seeing this whole "top 32" conversation going on for a while amongst multiple posters since one certain poster introduced it. But what does it take to be in the top 32 on average? Last 3 years (prior to that it was 16 game seasons, so only last 3 years are equal comparisons) In 2023, the 32nd was Rice with 938 and 31st was Hockenson with 960 (Kelce, who was referenced with Rice had 984 at 29th) In 2022, the 32nd was Donovan People Jones with 839 and 31st was Mark Andrews with 847 In 2021, the 32nd was Jakobi Meyers with 866 and 31st was AJ Brown with 869. That means the average yardage needed over the past 3 seasons for 2 players to finish in the top 32 is 881 yards (32nd) and 892 (31st) Ok...now we actually know what needs to happen to have "2 top 32" players. So do you really think that the Bills having 2 players finish above 881 yards is that implausible this year while Josh Allen is the QB of this franchise? Diggs and Davis alone ate up 241 targets by themselves last season. With those facts, the following still occured: Kincaid has the 4th most receptions (73) and 10th most yards (673) for a rookie TE in NFL history...and he missed a game last year. Shakir put up 611 yards on just 38 rec on only 45 targets...and he was barely used first third of the season. So those 2 returning targets are now going to see a decent chunk of those 241 departed targets. Kincaid - He only needs 208 more yards (and that is before you factor in him missing a game last year) this year to hit that min average to be in the top 32. Shakir - He only needs 270 more yards to do the same this year. Which of those above is crazy? Not only is neither crazy, but I would argue that its both plausible and expected that Kincaid should put up another 200+ yards this year min with the increased targets he will see. And same for Shakir because no one expects him to be seeing only 45 targets again and it is quite possible his targets double or more this season. So is 270 more yards for him really that much a stretch of the imagination? Additional facts about the current group: Samuel last time under Brady and with a bad QB put up 77 rec and 851 yards (in a 16 game season, meaning in a 17 game season he would have been top 32) Keon is a better prospect than Gabe Davis was coming out of college, yet Davis put up 600 yards as a rookie who wasn't a full time starter. So if Keon starts all year, is putting up 280 more yards than Gabe did as a rookie that much an impossibility? We have Josh Allen. I don't need to list all his accolades as a QB, we can all agree he is elite. Everything is an opinion right now...but I don't get why this "top 32" convo has become such a big deal here, it means we had 2 guys roughly around 880-900 yards. We have 2 ascending players who don't need much of an expanded role to hit those, we have 2 guys who have done it already before in Samuel and Claypool as well to factor in, and a promising Rookie where getting to 900 yards for a starting rookie WR isn't a crazy thought on its own right. How anyone can talk like this is some impossibility is beyond me. Is it a sure thing...nope...but I do think its more plausible than not. This I agree with...I don't trust our defense the way KC's defense played for them last year as one of the best in the league and Chris Jones literally closed out multiple playoff games for them including ours and the Super Bowl.