Alphadawg7

Huh? This is a real misleading thread title and quite the stretch

Curious...what Elite QB's in the greatest of all time conversations did Joe Gibbs need? What about Parcells or Harbaugh? Yet here you are...saying Andy Reid is elite...but also saying only is because he has one of the greatest to play in Mahomes. That sounds more like Reid is lucky to have Mahomes based on your own arguments. Like I said, Reid always a great coach...but you also said he only had a "lightbulb come on" when he got Mahomes, again implying he wasn't up to the task prior to Mahomes...so your points are all over the place man. The funniest thing about this is that this isn't even about Reid...you finally revealed this was all one big hidden anti-McD rant despite you dragging us down an Andy Reid rabbit hole full of false facts and inaccurate history. Next time...just say McD sucks and let the convo go there rather than go down this crazy rabbit hole of 2 entirely different teams. BONUS NOTE: The irony here is that if you apply your same swap mahomes in theory to the Bills, it would translate to mean Josh Allen is the problem since you 100% attest in the other application it means that it is 100% the QB's fault when Mahomes is an upgrade. Which would be just as ludicrous to say.

If it was only the HC and QB this would make sense. Mahomes doesn't get a Super Ring last year without Chris Jones who made game saving plays in more than one playoff game, including against us and in the Super Bowl. How did KC beat us in the 13 seconds game? Well it started with Hill taking a short pass any QB could throw the length of the field. In the 13 seconds it was Kelce who called his own play in the huddle from what he saw on the field. QBs, even ones as good as Mahomes, are not doing it alone out there...just like Allen not having a SB ring isn't all on Allen when his team can't hold a lead for 13 seconds.

Dude you just get more and more all over the place. You said if you swap in Mahomes and the team wins a SB it means the QB was the LONE problem. So if you are going to do that for Philly, it has to mean the same thing if you do it for another team like Kelly and the Bills. But it doesn't becasue its an absolute ludicrous statement to say the QB was the problem because said team did not have the best QB of maybe all time on its roster. If you cant see how wild of a statement is, I dont know what to tell you. And lightbulb? You think Andy Reid suddenly had a "lightbulb" go off after 2 decades of being a coach when he got Mahomes? Reid was a very good coach his whole career...he didn't learn how to coach all of a sudden when they got Mahomes where some "lightbulb" went off lol. Still completely lost on your point. I cant tell if you think Reid is a good or bad coach. You talk down to McD as if Reid is the superior coach then basically say its all mahomes and imply Reid is nothing without Mahomes. So I am gonna move on...its all good...agree to disagree even though I have no clue what so ever what we are agreeing to disagree on

Huh? We are comparing Reid in KC to Reids time in Philly. You can't take one of the greatest QBs of all time...put him on another roster where they also had a good QB...and say see that is proof the QB was the problem. I mean you can do that with any QB in NFL history who didn't win a SB...Swap Mahomes in for Jim Kelly...bet you Bills win a SB...does that mean Jim Kelly was the problem? Of course not. Swap Marino out for Mahomes and Mia might have won a SB too...does that mean Marino was the problem? Of course not. I mean this is just a wild argument you are trying to make.

Ha...no, I can't admit that because McNabb was a top 10 QB in Philly, he was a borderline HOF QB. He was not the reason they didn't get over the hump. McNabb never had a Kelce or Hill. He briefly had a T.O. who was a locker room cancer and killed that team from within. Outisde of that brief moment, he had guys that were better suited as depth WR's starting for him. And yet McNabb still won a lot of game, still put up a borderline HOF career, and still got to 5 straight NFCCG and 1 SB. The biggest thing missing in Philly was a real GM. Reid was a good coach...McNabb was a good QB...the roster make up around them was not good enough.

I mean IMHO this is the 6...but the wild thing is in what order. If things keep trending the way they are, its not impossible that Claypool could end up starting opposite Keon with Shakir in the slot and mixing in Samuel within the trio too. His upside is as high as anyones on the roster, its his head he has to keep straight. I think these guys are more likely to be PS guys that make the final 53.

And who drafted Mahomes? His GM, Brett Veach. Veach is one of the best GM's in the NFL, some will say the best GM, who has been there 17 years. He drafted Hill, Kelce, Mahomes, and the entire roster that is currently back to back SB champs. He was there before Reid, and he was the one who hired Reid. No HC can get over the hump without the right GM putting the right team on the field. In Philly, both hats were on Reid...didn't work. In KC, Reid coaches, Veach builds the team. Reid was always a good HC...he stood in his own way in Philly as GM.

Well, none of that is what we have discussed once. So that is all news to me. I mean on one hand you can't stop talking about how ELITE Mahomes is...then on the other, you can't seem to understand that McD and Allen need to go through Mahomes to get over the hump. You know it took Peyton Manning a long time to get a SB too because he had Brady to contend with every year as well. Mahomes is a generational talent, getting past him is not going to be some small task or feat. We lost by 3 to KC this year in the postseason, but you do know we were without our top 3 LB's right. KC attacked our LBs all game long and still only won by 3. You don't think Milano and Bernard might have impacted that game to where we probably would have won and not having them was a bit of bad luck. Its one thing to lose one guy, but to lose your starters and the backup is tough. The most important difference is Reid went from GM in Philly to NOT the GM in KC. He was always a good coach.

Ah, well if that is accurate then I would say trading him probably off the table completely this year. I saw someone else just referencing the $7.7m and was not aware he carried a bigger dead cap hit too. Can't see Beane getting an offer so good he would take on that cap hit this year. Which is fine, his ability to block and run 12 sets is probably worth more than any realistic offer Beane might have gotten this year.

Agreed...and its a lot to expect from a player, and while this is something no one should hold their breath on as its an uphill battle, there are plenty of cases where guys got past their demons to realize their talent like Cris Carter for example. If he can do it though, this offense would be a nightmare matchup. That kind of size and athleticism on the outside in Keon and Chase with Shakir, Smauel, and Kincaid feasting in short to mid areas, pass catching RB's in the backfield...and all the while teams have to protect against Allen taking off as well...good luck to DC's with that task.

Its early, but this is still great to hear. I mean this is a guy who a couple years into his career was looking like a future beast but his immaturity and attitude sunk his career. I felt Buffalo was the best place for him as do really feel like the culture, locker room, and McD really help people be their best selves. The issue is its very easy right now for Chase to have the right attitude and do and say the right things as he came in as a guy who had to prove it. Nothing will be handed to him here and once we get into camp and preseason, if he is still running behind other guys in more of a backup role and ST player, is he going to get discouraged and revert back to some of that immaturity if he feels he should be higher up the depth chart and a bigger part of the offense. Im rooting for this guy because him and Keon on the outside with Shakir and Samuel attacking from the slot and Kincaid pressuring the seems would be really hard to defend.

Thanks for this post. Personally, I just can't see McD risking his locker room to just calm him down, but certainly that is a possibility and something we will probably never have an answer about. Having been in locker rooms, I just think for him to be a Captain that they had to at least feel comfortable at that time with where things were at, that Allen and Diggs were on at least professional terms and not at each others throats. McD and Beane are too big on culture and that locker room to risk it if things were at that time ugly between them. That is also just of course my opinion based on who McD and Beane are. I don't disagree that its best for both sides he isn't here this year at all. And this info here is not public info, so this is the first I am hearing about it, so thanks again for sharing. It is also no surprise there are more issues than we publicly know either, as both the Bills and Diggs have been very good at keeping things in house to a high degree. But to go back to the original context of my point which was solely the relationship between Diggs and Allen today which was I personally do not think they have all this deep negative animosity and bad blood to the point they can't stand each other right now. I have no doubt both preferred a trade and a fresh start, I have said that since the news broke of the trade. But, I also think they are both professionals and had Beane not found the right trade that they could have made it work another season if need be. Again, just my opinion. Ive been saying all offseason it was addition by subtraction with Diggs and even Davis (for different reasons). Never disagreed there was tension or a strained relationship. But these guys did still laugh a lot, dance, dap each other up all season long. Unless everyone thinks that was them acting for cameras, I just find it hard to believe there was a deep hatred of each other like others have said. Again, just my opinion.

Yet you are making it that way in your Reid discussion. This is not reality...this is not even close to what happened. See below. I was fine agreeing to disagree, but everything you just said is completely wrong. Eagles traded McNabb for his 13th season at the end of his career while Andy Reid was still the HC for 3 more years. So McNabb did NOT go to s*** because Reid LEFT, McNabb left first and retired shortly after as it was the end of his career. McNabbs last season in Philly Eagles were 11-5 Reid had a losing record in the 3 years after McNabb left and was fired in 2012 after going 4-12. The very next season after Reid led them to 4-12 and got fired, the Eagles went 10-6 and back in the playoffs. So the ACTUAL facts are is that Reid and his time in Philly went to s*** after McNabb left and Michael Vick took over and rejuvenated his career in Philly, but they won less games than they did when McNabb was there despite Vicks numbers being similar to McNabbs. Reids record got worse every year after McNabb until he was fired in 2012 with a 4-12 record. Sorry, but you keep wanting to go down this rabbit hole, it is just not the hole you think it Is.

Yeah, certainly possible and that wouldn't totally surprise me. My concern with that approach though is we have nothing behind him. If Elam doesn't break out this year, we are headed in 2025 with just Benford really. We would need to rebuild the whole CB room in one offseason. Rasul still has at least 2 or 3 good years in him, so feels a bit risky to not extend him even though I can see what you said happening. Of course if Elam does break out to show starter ability this season that would be best case scenario, so that will be an interesting player to watch in camp.

Yeah, its like when 2 people break up...its easier to try and find things to hate to move on. Its human nature. The fact was that Diggs play tailed off because his usage completely changed under Brady, not because at 30 he was suddenly a washed player. But, end of the day...I am glad we traded him now where we could still get a 2nd round pick for him. Another season and a 3rd or 4th would have been best case scenario, especially if he wasn't seeing 160 targets here in the way Brady wants to run the offense.

Honestly, I don't even know...I mean I think a 4th rounder is probably about the most they could get and I would guess offers would start with a 5th. Personally, I think Knox is a pretty good TE, I think from a talent perspective a 4th or late 3rd isn't unreasonable, the issue is he doesn't have the resume because he was not used as a primary weapon here which was a combo of the OC's in Daboll and Dorsey as well as the weaknesses in the OL where Knox had to be an extra blocker a lot. Daboll forgot the guy was on the team until the 2nd half of the last season Daboll was here where Knox finished with a career high 9 TD's and it looked like finally Knox was going to be used more. Then Dorsey did the same thing his first season until later in the season he remember Knox played on this team and he finished with 6 TD's. Last year was the arrival of Kincaid who is the better weapon, but not the better overall TE when you factor all the duties of a complete TE...at least not yet. I just can't see Beane considering a 5th, he has more value to us than that this year IMHO. He might think hard about it for a 4th, but we already have three 4th round picks in the next draft, so not sure he feels the need to pull that trigger. I honestly think it is unlikely he gets traded unless someone is willing to something like this in which I will use the Giants in this example: Giants send us their 3rd round pick and the Bills send back Knox and one of our three 4th round picks. If someone was willing to do that, I think that would get Beanes attention. But ultimately, I still think it's most likely he is a Bill for 2024.

Keon is a dawg, and he is what this offense has been missing. Whether he has the skills to excel in the NFL we will still need to find out, but the way he plays, his size, his mentality, his swagger, his toughness, and his attitude are all upgrades from his predecessors and something that the offense needed more of. Shakir and Kincaid are Dawgs too out there, never taking plays off, blocking way down field, etc. They are always around the ball. I really can't wait to see this group together on the field.

Ok, by your logic I guess Dan Marino is the reason Miami didn't win a Super Bowl given Don Shula won a Super Bowl without Dan Marino but never did with him. All good, but we can agree to disagree here, no biggie.

Progress...you at least admit your initial mistake. But ok, this is still wild to me. Everything you just stated is your opinion...and you are entitled to it. But there are no "facts" that Diggs "dogged it", there are no facts that in 2023 their relationship was "horrific". In fact, all the actual facts available can also suggest that was not the case with Diggs being chosen as Captain, Diggs and Allen always laughing, dancing and dabbing each other up on and off the field throughout the season. Neither of them has thrown each other under the bus either at any point in the entire 4 years together. And that doesn't mean there wasn't still tension either, doesn't mean they both didn't welcome fresh starts. But the point is, you just tried to slander my character for having an "opinion" that you basically said spit in the face of all these facts and insiders...when it was really just you misreading my post. So I just find it ironic your opinion is justified here and me having a slightly less negative opinion is somehow not ok to the point you tried to attack my character over it.

Couple of things I think you should know: Andy Reid was also the GM in Philly, and their achilles heal were all the bad draft picks they invested in weapons for McNabb that became busts. Sounds familiar in KC. You do know these guys are Super Bowl champions right..Jeff Hostettler, Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams...And I can keep going...but the point is there are many SB winning QB's who were not near as good as McNabb was. So to say BB couldn't win a SB with Donovan McNabb is wild...especially as a fan of a team that lost to Jeff Hostettler with Jim Kelly, Thurman, Reed, Bruce and other HOF players on the roster. You do know that Reid took McNabb and Philly to the Super Bowl and nearly won it right? So I find it wild you think BB could never have won any Super Bowls coaching those Eagles teams, especially given BB resume is far greater than Reids and consider the GOAT at HC. Im not even saying Reid is a bad coach, he is an all time great. I just don't get this notion that you think McNabb, the best player on those Eagle teams and a borderline HOF player was the "reason" Andy didn't win one sooner. Especially win one of the biggest knocks on those teams were personnel decisions led by none other than Andy Reid. Again, Reid is an all time great, but don't think for a second that things he learned and mistakes he made in Philly didn't make him a better coach in KC. And that was the other persons point, that sometimes it takes time and lessons before a Coach, team, or player breaks through to that next level.

To be honest, I am not totally clear what we are really discussing here. Well there is only one Mahomes but over 50 Super Bowl winning coaches, so clearly Mahomes isn't a prerequisite. A lot of QBs who are worse than McNabb have won Super Bowls. To be fair, that was near the end of his career too. Honestly I am really not seeing the correlation that the Eagles not winning a SB was all about the QB just because Reid won some Super Bowls with a completely different roster and a guy who may end up the GOAT.

You can't be this stupid. All you had to is admit you misunderstood my post. You know when you challenged me for saying it was "undeniable" not realizing that I was AGREEING with another poster about that the TENSION between them was UNDENIABLE. I can't be responsible for your poor literacy and comprehension. So...after pointing our your complete whiff at a gotcha moment...you want to further double down now? LMAO...ok...so lets continue with this debacle... Not only did I AGREE and state its UNDENIABLE there was tension...you also apparently missed this below by Gunner (cuz you care more about trolling than reading), which actually contradicts HappyDays first post to a degree saying they obviously patched things up for 2023 and he didn't know how their relationship ended up...which...wait for it...was the only opinion I had that really differed with Happy where I said I have a hard time believing there was major a locker room issue ahead of 2023 and still named him captain last year. Maybe next time just admit you made a mistake and move on instead of doubling down on a mistake. The only place I differ is the degree of the tension heading into 2023 where Diggs was CHOSEN as a CAPTAIN and I don't believe they hate each other today like others seem to think.

LMAO, this is hilarious...I mean what are you even talking about...I literally just responded to someone else's opinion and comment that said there was tension in their relationship and AGREED with them saying that its undeniable...which absolutely aligns with the other 3 separate posters you just referenced that you think I am somehow contradicting by agreeing that its undeniable there was tension. I mean this is such a bad take I wouldn't blame you if you deleted it. Maybe you should read more, because if you did you would have read a post by one of those "3 posters with proven inside info" that just literally wrote...in this very thread...that his info was about 2022 and does not details of what their relationship was like in...wait for it...here it comes...2023.

I mean he still had McNabb in Philly, who may be the most disrespected QB of his time. That dude could ball and deserves a lot more respect as a QB who was a top 10 QB most of his time in Philly with Reid. So I cant give Andy a pass in Philly for not having Mahomes. QB was not his issue there. And McNabb's career was saddled with utter gutter trash at WR...most season his best Receiver was a RB...Someone like Gabe Davis would have been one of the best WR's he ever played with. John Brown is better than most the WR's McNabb ever played with. Yet he took that team to 5 straight NFCC games and 1 Super Bowl throwing to guys like James Thrash, Todd Pinkston, Freddy Mitchell, Hank Baskett, etc. His only legit WR1 in his entire career was the brief time with T.O. before T.O. ruined his 2nd locker room and got shipped to Dallas to sink a 3rd locker room. And he was tough...he broke his ankle in a game and still finished the game. So I very much do think Andy vs Andy is a fair comparison because people wanted Andy gone for not winning a Super Bowl with one of those teams, people felt like he couldn't win.