Alphadawg7

Would you agree coming out of College Keon is a clearly better prospect than Gabe Davis was coming in as a 4th round pick? Davis made a pretty good impact as a rookie despite his limited route tree, mediocre route running, questionable hands, and struggles with getting off the line and separation. All things Keon is better at than Davis. So not sure I wound say the chances are “low” that he can make an impact this season. To be fair, I wouldn’t say they are “high” either, because Keon doesn’t have the benefit Davis had of being opposite Diggs. But he does have a deep group around him that can make plays including a better run game. I just think “low” is a bit harsh when you have Josh Allen at QB and a lot of guys who can make plays like Kincaid, Shakir, Samuel, Cook, etc still on this offense too.

This is quite honestly your worst argument and take since you tried to convince me during last season that Shakir can’t catch. So TE’s play WR now? Lmao. You are so predictable. You always move the goal post or change the comparison…or at least try to…when you’re clearly out of any logical way to counter a point or just factually wrong. You’re not even capable of sticking to the topic. The statement is very clearly was about how the starting WR’s have put up their CAREER high with Allen. Robert Foster did that, but you AGAIN try and spin that by citing he didn’t set a new career high the next season? Lol, you mean the one where he was NOT a starter and wasn’t even active most the season because he was in the coaches dog house? Haha what a meaningless thing to bring up as if that somehow changes that Foster had a career high with Allen. You don’t seem to understand that only furthers my point. And, so funny…I just told you Allen only played 10 1/2 games as a rookie, yet you bring up KB? And I already told you that in the last post lol. Not to mention states that it was true except for when injuries prevented it. And even though Allen only played in 10 1/2 games as a rookie, Foster and Zay had still put up then career highs. Zay did beat it one time since 2 years ago, but again he only played 10 1/2 games with Josh Allen that year, still his 2nd best of his career. You want to bring up Knox (again not a WR) who had 15 TDs the 2 years before Kincaid got here, including 9 in 2021 that resulted in him getting a big contract as a failure? Lol, especially considering how little his target share was as neither Daboll or Dorsey prioritized throwing to the TE. And when Brady did use the TE’s once Kincaid was here, Kincaid put up the 4th most receptions for a rookie TE in NFL history. You really think Knox is gonna have a better 2 year span for any other team if he leaves Buffalo and Allen than his 15 TDs from 2021-2022? Possible, but prob not. Also…he’s a TE, we talking WRs, so irrelevant anyway. You were wrong when you wanted to bring up all his “failures” to do so…just accept that and move on instead of doubling and tripling down on what should have just been a simple mistake. It doesn’t even mean you have to change your negative opinion, just means you misspoke without knowing if it was true. It’s complete fact, not an opinion, that the starting WRs not affected by injuries set career highs with Allen.

The questions illustrate the complete unknown. And the “you make it sound quite perilous” is part of the low ranking because with so much unknown with all the changes there isn’t anything proven to elevate the rankings. Lmao, the failures? Do you mean the 2 guys who got hurt in Crowder and Sanders? I said the 3 starting WR’s. It’s not that it’s not good data, it’s more you don’t seem to know the correct data. 2018 - Shouldn't really even use 2018 as he was a raw rookie who only played 10 1/2 games….but Foster and Zay still had then career highs and gave their careers life. Foster wouldn’t ever play meaningful football again. After that - Every starting WR who didn’t get hurt (Sanders and Crowder) have put up their career best seasons with Allen. There is no logical or rational way to dispute that fact because it’s just that…a statistical fact…not opinion.

Again, you are overlooking the entirety of the unknowns and narrowing it to “lots of teams drafted a rookie WR”. How many of those teams have every WR but 1 as new? How many of those teams have a new OC and new offensive system? How many of those teams have a QB learning his 3rd system in 3 years? How many of those teams are replacing nearly 300 targets in their offense? How many of those teams have their expected top 4 best weapons with 0-2 years experience? Now ask how many of those teams have Josh Allen and who has elevated pretty much every starting WR he has ever played with to career highs? How many of those teams feature a QB with most NFL TDs in history in first 6 years? How many of those teams of those teams have a QB with a NFL record of 40+ TDs for 4 consecutive years and counting? You are just glossing over things to maintain the pessimistic outlook you insist on coating all your views with. Bottom line, not only is expecting the group to rank higher by seasons end not unreasonable based on its low conservative preseason ranks, it’s statistically the most probable outcome based on history of all receivers and weapons that play with Josh Allen. To deny that is to be stubborn to a particular view.

I mean there is quite a few…to name some: Wide right The Comeback Music City Miracle 13 Seconds I mean I think 13 seconds is the one I remember the most often today because it’s so fresh in the mind. But the game that stood out for me the most as my fondest memory has to be the 2021 home opener against the Steelers because it was my first and only game I got to attend in Buffalo. We lost but didn’t change the experience for me. In fact the loss was kind of poetic in a couple ways. One, fitting my first game in Buffalo I get a taste of what the most loyal fans dealt with for 17 years…losing, like an initiation. But also, I had a patch on my Josh Allen jersey that was Steelers colors with a capital B in the middle. It symbolized a dear friend Brian who died from Covid a few months earlier in June who was a die hard Steelers fan. He was as big of a fan of them as I am of the Bills. So felt like he deserved this one and was good with the outcome. I even buried another patch there in Buffalo for him. And overall it was just an amazing trip, my wife fell in love with Buffalo, Niagra, etc. Even as a die hard Niners fan living in CA, she immediately wanted to make the Bills home opener an annual family tradition for us and our kids we had planned on having and now have one at 14 months and number 2 due in October. Getting to meet some of the people here in person like @Augieand tailgate before the game was just awesome too. Best time her and I ever had at a football game.

I will say this, both as a WR group and overall set of weapons for the offense (WR, TE, and RB) I think we are better in these areas this year than last year: Route Running, overall Route Tree, better hands, more cerebral, and overall tougher. What we are not is say "top heavy" with that proven upper tier type player that Diggs was, but we are deeper with guys who can all run good routes or better, can run a more expansive route tree, are more physical, and just play with a higher IQ and awareness on the field. And that is why I am in the optimistic camp of this group because I have confidence that the guys on the field can make the play where I didn't share that confidence with as many of the players last year. And if they can do their job, Allen is going to elevate their games.

Like I mentioned in the other thread, wife and I are watching and loving it now. She is a die hard Niners fan, so extra fun for her with Kittle and Deebo on it. But the overall show production is great like "Quarterback" was which was an excellent show we both loved. My wife fell in love with Kirk Cousins and his family on "Quarterback" and still roots for him now lol. The players and families have all been great and fun as well. We will prob binge the rest between now and Friday lol. Kittle is hilarious and he has an awesome wife. In fact all the spouses or girlfriends are great in this season. Watching what Davante played through for the Raiders gave me an even greater respect for him. Already easily either 1 or 2 on the best in the NFL list of WR's by any measure, the dude is a beast and all about leaving it all out on the field.

Super Bowl

We loved "Quarterback" so we were already hyped for "Receivers", but for obvious reasons, my wife was double amped with Kittle and Deebo on it given shes a die hard Niners fan. My wife really loved Cousins on "Quarterback" and his wife and family and now roots for him unless playing the Niners or Bills lol. And they all have absolutely great families and have been fun to watch. Kittle is hilarious too. All those parents and dad's coming to Davantes daughter bday party not knowing her dad was Davante too was pretty funny lol. We watched the first episode like a few days ago and just had not gotten a chance to comeback to it until last night where we watched the next 2. I have no doubt we will binge the rest over the next couple of days though lol

What @Rocky Landingis saying though is that a BIG part of their rankings are the unknown. Keon is a rookie where people have been split on him and Shakir just put up an insane YPT, Catch %, and led the Bills in receiving over our final 10 games but we have not seen him in a bigger role and without Diggs here. Samuel who is respected, has never played with Allen or any QB that should be starting in the NFL, yet still has been able to be productive. And with ESPN ranking the Bills weapons 24th, that again is again factoring in a lot of the unknown from our youth because we haven't seen them post Diggs (or at all yet in Buffalo like Keon, Davis, and Samuel) to reasonably know what to expect this year from them. Kincaid put up 4th most rec by a rookie TE in NFL history last year to go along with Shakir's and Cook's breakouts. But, all of that happened with a Diggs on the roster, so will they keep ascending in bigger roles with Diggs gone is a question yet to be answered. Brady had a strong start in Buffalo, but now its his offense being installed, one where Allen is also learning a new system. Point is, it is not like they are ranked 24th because the opinion is that Kincaid is not very good...Shakir is not very good...Keon is not very good. They are ranked 24th because those guys who are expected to be the bigger parts of the offense bring potential rather than a proven track record while also having Allen learn now his 3 system in 3 seasons. But lets look at what we do know...pretty much every receiver the past 4 or 5 years that has been one of our top 3 receivers has put up career highs catching passes from Josh Allen, and the ones who didn't were the ones who were hurt like Crowder and Sanders. So, saying it is "not very likely" that the WR Corps would rank higher at the end of the season doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Because the rankings and expectations are set low right now because of the unknown, but the odds are that playing with Allen that they will certainly exceed the low expectations being set preseason. I would happily take the over on a bet about where they finish compared to their current ranking either as a WR Corp or as Weapons overall.

Agreed...but unfortunately sports media is a clown show full of all kinds of stupid takes for click bait and social media is populated predominantly by complete idiots...so this stupid reference gets used more than it should.

No because this was a hype video and nothing gets Allen more fired up, flexing, etc than trucking someone or running by them.

I am in the camp where I am optimistic about our offensive group as a whole between WR, TE, and RB's around Allen. I am high on Kincaid and Shakir, and I like Keon's potential and think Brady is going to do well as his first full year as our OC. That being said, if there was a move for WR to be made by Beane, Davante makes a lot more sense to me than Aiyuk. My wife and I are watching "Receiver" on Netflix, and it is crystal clear that Davante knows his window to get a ring is shortening and that seems to be his highest priority. Poll every NFL GM, Coach, and Player in the NFL and Davante is still either 1 or 2 on almost every one of their best WR in the NFL lists. I do not anticipate a trade happening for any WR right now for Buffalo, at least not until Beane and the coaches see this group with pads on in Camp and Practices. Even then I think it is a low probability they would make a move given they know with all the youth and new pieces they need some patience with the group. Especially with our draft capital next year and cap space to make some big moves then. BUT...if we were to make a trade, I think Davante makes much more sense than Aiyuk because he would cost less to acquire and pay and is still the better player.

Interesting, I didn't think about the fact that oversees it would be different with Youtube having the rights now. Kind of just assumed Europe would watch through the Youtube platform like we do. I actually have a similar issue with Redzone here. I get Redzone through our cable provider Spectrum, but the NFL package comes through streaming over Youtube here in the US. So sometimes if I have the Bills game on the main TV and then put Redzone on for one of the side TV's, the Redzone feed is a little ahead of the Main TV feed. So when the Redzone switches into the Bills game it is usually a play or sometimes 2 or 3 plays ahead of where the Bills game is on my streaming feed. It is so annoying, I hate having my small TV tip the plays ahead of time and will just put on another individual game instead of Redzone or one of the Youtube 4 game mix feeds. When it is only the Bills on (or Niners for my wife) for like a primetime game or playoff game, I will put the game on the big TV and one of the side TV's. But I pause the side TV for like 5 seconds to make sure it is running behind the main TV and then it becomes like my own extra replay TV where I can just quickly see a play replay right after it happens haha.

Wow, this is kind of funny because my wife is a die hard Niners fan, and we were watching episodes 2 and 3 of "Receiver" on Netflix last night where 2nd episode is all on Davante and JJ. She is fed up with Aiyuk drama and the first thing she said was I wish we would just trade Aiyuk to the Raiders so we they can give us Davante because he is so good. As an avid football fan, she also knows "rumors" more often than not are nothing, so she won't get too excited about this. But she is at least gonna love that someone somewhere is at least mentioning it as a possibility lol

As many know, I live in CA not Buffalo, so I don't have the option of going to every home game. So for me, when I do get to go to a game, whether it be to see the Bills in Buffalo or on the road here to play in CA, its just an incredible experience that can't be beat. But as great as games live are, I still do love watching from home. My wife loves football too, so we love making some good food and chilling at the house where we have an 85" main TV and 2 side 42" TV's to the left of it so we can get multiple games on. She is a die hard Niners fan (also supports the Bills when they aren't playing the Niners lol) so our rule is if both teams are playing at the same time, then whoever has the better game or more important game gets to go on the big TV lol. Luckily they don't conflict often with Bills usually the first slate of games (or primetime) and Niners usually the 2nd slate of games (or primetime). So when our games are on TV, we are usually home watching the games either with each other or with friends who stop by. We just love being able to hear our games, the commentary, and just be more in tune with all the happenings of the game. When only one of us (or neither of us) is playing on Sunday due to bye weeks or primetime games, we usually take those opportunities to mix it up and go watch one of the slates of games of either the morning or afternoon out at a local sports bar with friends.

What is crazy to me is that anytime Josh and the Bills are facing 3rd and 10+ I am as confident that they will get the first down as I am if it was 3rd and 1. Even something like 3rd and 18...I still feel like there is still a good chance he is going to convert it with his arm or legs, or get close enough to where he will get on a 4th down conversion attempt. I can honestly say I have never ever felt that any time in my lifetime while either playing football or watching football. But Josh Allen is just that dude where I feel like long or short makes no difference, he is just as likely to convert it. There is even this little part of me that almost feels more confident on 3rd and long vs something like 3rd and 3 because it is almost like you know you might see a little more Superman energy from Allen on the tougher challenge rather than the short one that may just be some short throw or run that doesn't work. Prior to Allen, 3rd and double digits always felt like a low probability play until he came along and somehow almost normalized it to where now I just have this confidence he will make the play as likely as he would at any other shorter distance. Just one of the many reasons Josh Allen has already supplanted Barry Sanders as my all time favorite player to watch play the game. As an avid sports fan as well, I will go as far to say that Allen is my favorite athlete to watch play at this point. Not only can he just do things no one else can, he often makes them look easy and often does things that just make you marvel at what just happened. He is just a blast to watch, and the fact he is an awesome person and human being as well just makes it that much better.

I agree the defense has been a major playoff issue, although 2023 I feel like injuries were its biggest problem not having healthy LB’s. But, his take wasn’t crazy, you just changed the subject to create a different narrative. You’re masking the data he provided of the games that sent us home in the playoffs by trying to prop them up using playoff totals that factors in games where we didn’t lose and had big wins. Winning those games by 1 point of 50 points is 100% irrelevant in the next game where we lost and went home. The only playoff loss our offense didn’t struggle was the 2021 KC game. Hou - Offense disappeared in 2nd half and allowed Hou to come back where our defense was forced to save the game and failed. KC - offense and defense were both terrible KC - Offense comes on late to put up excellent game, Def blows 13 seconds and OT CIN - Offense and defense were both anemic and Dorsey was totally outcoached and Bills could not run the ball to save their life. KC - Offense gave the game back to KC while losing and scoring well under our season average. And the most consistent problem in all those games…we lost in the trenches. Everything from protecting Allen and run blocking, to our front 7 not being able to sniff the opposing QB. So while I do absolutely agree that our defense is the bigger problem, the offense has had its own struggles in season ending games and not winning up front has been a big reason. Even this year, our last 2 plays of the game before the missed FG the OL failed. And part of the reason I am more optimistic about the offense going into this season than I was last year is because I feel our OL is strong and Brady understands how to balance and create a run game when needed. A lot gets made of Brady running so much last year, but it’s skewed by the Cowboys game. He used the run game strategically and our offense became more consistent. And in the playoffs that is important.

His $30m ask plus the draft compensation is going to limit the teams interested IMHO, so I am not so sure he has as many suitors as you suggested. And I think if the Niners could get a 1st and 2nd they would have already pulled the trigger because that is getting into the "an offer they can't refuse" territory for a WR, especially for one while very good isn't in the consensus top 5 of his own position.

I am doubtful they see Kincaid getting 60 more targets this year, that would put him over 150 and near what Diggs got last year. Their motto has been "everyone eats", so seems they plan to be less heavy on anyone player and spread the extra targets around more. Now I do think Shakir could see 40-60 more targets this year, but that is because he only had 45 last year yet still finished with 38 rec for 611 yards and they have talked about him as having a much bigger role this year. So in a bigger role him getting 85-105 targets isn't an unreasonable expectation.

Next offseason the Bills have two 2nd rounders and three 4th rounders next draft along with all our other picks in the other rounds. They will have a much better cap situation as well with Diggs not having all that dead money and being able to get out of Von's deal overall. So just seems like Beane has set the table to make a big move or two next year and not sure he is looking to make one now. But, what we do know about Beane is that he is not afraid to make a move if he feels its the right one for the team, so wouldn't rule it out either even though I am doubtful he makes this move now. And Aiyuk reportedly also wants $30M a year, plus you still have the draft capital to factor in...so does Beane see him as the kind of player worth that kind of investment is the other unknown factor.

The comparison is games 1-10 versus games 11-17. Dorsey was fired when we were 5-5 with Brady taking over week 11 against Jets. But you are under analyzing here, you are treating those 1 game wins/losses as if all things were equal in terms of class of opponent. Under Dorsey we were 2-5 in 7 one score games with losses to the lowly Jets, Pats, Broncos, Burrow-less Bengals, and mediocre Jags. And quite frankly, we were lucky to even win the 2 games where both the Giants and Bucs had chances to win the game on the final play and blew it. Brady had a harder strength of schedule than Dorsey did and we didn't lose games to bad teams with losing records like we did with Dorsey. Our only loss overall was to a playoff team in the Eagles in Brady's 2nd week as OC.

You wont get any argument from me that our defense has needed to be better overall. I do think it was last year, and I don't think we lose to KC in the playoffs if Milano and Bernard play, and probably don't lose if just one of them play. But my main point is that a team who plays a lot in cold and bad weather late in the season and playoffs should not be focused on passing 60% or more every game. Not having a run game was an achilles heal for this team for a long time. Now that we have one, we should not move away from it for the sake of just throwing all the time again. And like I said, we also should not be a run first team clearly, we have an elite QB. To win in the postseason of the NFL, we need to play to our strength which is the fact we are a team capable of both passing and running at high level and being able to dial one up or down when needed based on the teams we are facing, weather, etc. That is all I am saying...that is what KC is so good at as well. They know how to adjust to attack each team differently very well, and it is something I am hoping we see more of from Brady than we saw with Dorsey and even Daboll.

I actually agree with you that if we field a "top 10" offense, then it may not be enough this year. Our defense has not been able to come up when we needed them to in the past seasons. I do give last year a bit of a pass given how much better the defense was IMO before we lost Milano and Bernard. I really wish we could have seen what our D would have done with Milano and Bernard playing, or even one of them. Going into the KC game the first thing I told everyone I was scared of was KC's ability to attack the LB position and that they were going to feat on that all day. And the result was just that, we even helped bring Kelce back to life who honestly murmurs he may be losing a step down the stretch of the season were out there. He looked vintage against us as we had no shot at covering with our bandaid group. This year I am worried we are too thin at CB and also while I think Milano and Bernard are a great duo (when healthy), I am a little worried if they can stay healthy being both undersized. On the other hand, I am more optimistic about the offense as I like the potential of not having a target hog in Diggs and a limited Davis opposite him. IMHO, I think the overall group between WR, TE, and RB have better hands, bigger route trees, better route runners, are more cerebral, and tougher overall. It does have a lot of youth and some unproven aspects of course. But still, I think we are improved in those ares. We don't have that proven top end player like a Diggs, but I think what we lack in that we can make up for in depth overall across the offense in guys who can make plays. But, I get the concern, lots of unknowns still between a new offense being installed with Brady and the youth amongst our top playmakers. I mean no opinion is right or wrong right now, we have yet to see most of this on the field yet. But I do like our ascending guys like Kincaid and Shakir, and Samuel I think is a good addition as a Vet, plus I think our RB room is better with Davis over the aging vets we had paired with Cook. Biggest thing for me though is last year I was very concerned about Dorsey going into the season, and this year I am coming into the season a lot more confident in our OC and I think Brady will be smarter about putting Allen in better positions to succeed than Dorsey was. So for me, I think the potential to remain one of the best offenses in the league is still there and it could result in Allens best season yet.

LOL...I very specifically countered your point about his snaps with the comment that I thought I saw on here that his snap % decreased a lot once Brady took over. that was the info to confirm...you didn't do that. You instead saw that it was correct, and then instead of just acknowledging it you presented some other comparison that wasn't being discussed that "suggested" it wasn't correct. And LMAO...persecution complex? This from the guy who follows me around trying to do it all the time? And I wasn't even doing that here, I even said I wasn't sure if I was even remembering the info correctly or not. You are the one who tried to twist an answer to create a different perception...which honestly isn't all that surprising.