Alphadawg7

This is a fair point, and absolutely valid. I do however also feel it is a bit over emphasized here sometimes as if just having a top end option of a player suddenly makes him good vs bad. Having that guy undoubtedly is an advantage, but the other guy still is facing a starting corner, still has to win his routes, still has to beat zone, still also sees the defenses top DB at times, still has to make the catches, and still has to run with the ball once in his hands. This kind of gets talked about like any player opposite a Diggs, Moore, etc just has this easy path and runs around with ease...it just isn't to that level. Most defenses don't have their top corner shadow one player, so as Receivers move around the field they find themselves being guarded by different people, including that teams top corner. Additionally...elite corners are not aplenty around the league. For a lot of teams, there is not always even a significant difference between their top corners and 2nd corner. And...more importantly, this common assumption on the board this offseason that defenses will never look to double someone on the Bills because Diggs isn't here is a bit of an exaggeration too. There will be times where different guys are going to draw extra attention, and even more so if guys like Kincaid, Shakir, or Keon consistently are able to make plays. Not to mention, unlike most other teams, opposing defenses need to also spy Allen.

The bolded is a great way to phrase it...he really is, we have no risk here with tons of potential. Like you, not holding my breath, the kind of transformation he needs to make is no small hill to climb. It is always easy in the beginning to be patient, say the right things, etc. But if he starts to feel like he is deserving of moving up the ladder more as camp and preseason progresses and maybe isn't yet, that is when his maturity and entitlement issues will be tested. Will this guy put the work in no matter his role, that is the question.

No doubt Claypool has the most upside from a pure talent perspective. So I am hoping to see him get back on track, because he is actually the most accomplished WR on this roster right now based on best season of production, and he did it twice his first 2 years in the league before his immaturity sunk his standing and career. He is saying all the right things so far...but it is easy to say the right things when you have accepted that you are coming in at the bottom to try and work your way up. My big question is what happens when the 2nd preseason game just concluded and he is still running with the backups? Is he going to start getting frustrated or feeling like he is owed more if say he has had a strong camp but guys like Samuel or even Hollis are still clearly ahead of him? I mean Hollis is not going to be easy to over take. He has shown he has receiver ability, he is also a very good blocker and very good ST player. They went out and got him long before they looked at Claypool too. Hollis doesn't offer the same top end potential Claypool does, but with Keon, Shakir and Samuel firmly up there on the top, Claypool is fighting to get into that WR4 category where the guy in front of him brings a lot of the dirty work to the table that doesn't always show up on the stat sheets. But again, Claypool has starter level potential here. Bears traded a first round pick for him 2 seasons ago despite his maturity issues sinking him in Pit. In an ideal world, he keeps impressing and it is him and Keon starting on the outside with Shakir in the Slot and Samuel rotating in amongst them and into the backfield at times. But that is a long road for Claypool to climb, it won't be handed to him. And I want to see how he mentally handles disappointment and frustration from a maturity stand point before I feel like the kid is turning things around.

Diggs is definitely not washed. His numbers greatly declined through how the offense evolved and the reduced effort to forcefully feed him the ball. But the most important thing is that Diggs does not HAVE to be washed for the trade to be right move. Personally because of the cap hit, I thought there was almost no chance he would be traded this offseason without some significant change behind the scenes and had expected us to move on next offseason initially. And since the trade more has come out that certainly suggests a change was in the best interest of both parties...not to mention, Beane got the most for him doing it now and gets to cap freedom quicker. I don't have any ill will towards Diggs, I agree with Dion and have said it here multiple times in the past, that Diggs is more misunderstood than anything. All he is driven by at this stage of his career is winning a ring. And Diggs was frustrated with losing and was losing confidence the Bills are going to be able to get it done before his abilities diminish with cap issues and a lot of changes coming as a result. From the Bills perspective, the constant narrative around Diggs every week, the social media stuff, and with how he wears those frustrations and emotions on his sleeve even in the locker room I think were just wearing thin with Josh and the team. So IMHO I think this was a good result for both parties

I don’t disagree with this, even if in an ideal world we would see him put back to back seasons together first. But locking him up before the price gets too high is definitely a smart play as well.

Correct me if I am wrong, wasn’t Allen the least sacked QB last year? I think that is what the host said to Dawkins in a recent interview, but could be mistaken. But like I said, I prefer to see Brown another season and also stay healthy again too. But at the same time I wouldn’t have an issue locking him up either as I feel like he showed enough last year to be confident in him being a starter.

I don’t disagree that we won’t know until we see this season, and really won’t know later in the season. Im not going to get too high or low on the offense early either. One, if we come out hot…well that is great and all, but means little when teams don’t have a lot of tape on this offense. How the offense fares once teams have the film to game plan against it and how Brady adjusts will be the key to how this offense goes later in the season and playoffs. Two, if we come out slow…well there are a lot of new parts and a new offense, Allen’s third to learn in 3 years and kind of 4th if you count adjusting to Brady for last part of the year last year. So it may not click right away and we may need to have some patience before they start to gel and find their rhythm and chemistry. So regardless to how the offense looks early, you are right in saying we won’t probably have a more confident understanding and picture of what it really is until later in the season like November

I was always about preaching patience with him and felt he showed enough promise to see what he could do once healthy again. And I feel like he did that last year and I would like to see him stay, although I would feel more comfortable seeing him put up another healthy and good season first to be safe.

Really? I have not heard anything about this, so must have missed this chatter. Can you fill me in more on this or share any additional info? Thanks in advance Keep in mind, there is context not showing up there too. Brady took over week 11 and had to coach out of someone else's system Drops were an issue with Diggs and Davis and there were games where Diggs and Davis were invisible as our starting WR's The SOS was much higher over Brady's 7 games than Dorsey's 10 Every game was practically a high-pressure playoff game where he had to avoid mistakes and not try and force as many throws, so I felt like he threw the ball away more (To be clear that is an opinion, I didn't look to see if there was any stat on that, just what I felt when watching the games)

Yeah, its not like Allen is infallible, all players have strengths and weaknesses...but Allens strengths GROSSLY outweigh his weaknesses to the point calling overrated, let alone one of the more overrated players in the NFL is beyond stupidity. There is not another QB in the NFL not named Mahomes that people would take over Allen right now.

Dude you just got caught lying and gaslighting and you want to pretend I am? LMAO...you are priceless and clown at the same time for even trying. I laid it all out there...it is black and white, you cant deny nor hide from it. You are literally the king of gaslighting and you are doing it to others in this same thread lying to them and misusing statements to mean something else. I warned you not to try these games with me anymore in our private messages...you can't help yourself and your Napolean complex to where you try and bully over everyone in every convo and will lie and change narratives to do it. Your game is up and tired.

Fair enough, while I don’t personally share this same opinion, I get why you have Redzone concerns if you feel this way. Yeah Hollins is an underrated signing here IMHO. He is a guy who brings credible ability as a receiver, but also is a very good blocker to help replace that part of Gabe’s game that he actually did quite well. And he is a very good ST player. He will have more value to this team than Sherfield and Harry did combined IMHO.

I get the concern, but I actually think our roster is better suited for redzone play this year over last year. Obviously its all just a guess right now...but here is why I feel that way. Keon is going to bring redzone value, Kincaid is now in year 2 and we still have Knox giving us a lot of athletic size. Shakir and Samuel are threats out of the slot who can run crisp routes and make the catch, especially Shakir. And gone are the over the hill compliments to Cook where we have Davis who is a tough runner who accelerates through the hole. Plus Brady finally brought movement with a purpose to the offense after Dorsey was fired. Then there is still the guy with the most TD's the past 4 seasons who is a redzone beast in Allen. So for me, the redzone is where I feel more comfortable with this squad. Beane even discussed how he was thinking about the redzone when constructing this group. Personally, my bigger question marks will be the longer parts of the field and will they consistently be able to attack all 3 levels to avoid defenses clamping down on them.

Fixed that for you In reality, no one with any longevity bats .500 either. The great Bill Walsh traded up a bounty for JJ Stokes and called him the next Jerry Rice. Also said Jim Druckenmiller reminded him of Joe Montana. Yeah...none of these guys are batting .500 but it's the quality of the ones they get right that make or break a GM.

And FWIW, BB has fawned over Josh and only stated how elite he is essentially when he has made any public comments about him.

The LOS doesn't jive either...Allen I believe was the least sacked QB last year...not because we have the most dominant line in the NFL, but because Allen is elite at identifying where the pressure is coming from and escaping it and exploiting it. So he can't be that "underdeveloped at the line" lol. I think that is a lazy take because it is assumed due to the turnovers.

Circling back to my original point...Gabe had some early success as a rookie who wasn't expected to play as much but did due to John Browns injury. And while there is no denying having a Diggs on the field is a benefit, he still has to run his routes, beat his man, catch the ball, etc. So if Keon is better prospect and ahead of Gabe in a number of areas coming out of college, wouldn't you think it is plausible that Keon could have similar success to Davis rookie year and even surpass that given the expected bigger role Keon will have compared to Davis as well? And no doubt Diggs on the field is a bonus, but it is also over exaggerated a lot by many around here. Having Diggs on the field doesn't make a bad WR opposite of him suddenly good. It has advantages sure, but the WR still has to execute and do his job. And while Keon won't have Diggs, he also isn't automatically dead in the water because he doesn't and still has guys on the field the defense has to respect to make plays from Kincaid, Shakir, Samuel, to the RB's and Allen running himself. IMHO they don't need Keon to be a 1,200 yard guy or something year 1...but if he can manage 700-900 yards and get 8+ TD's it will really help this offense this year have a shot at still being one of the premiere offenses in the league. And I personally don't find that to be an unreasonable expectation of his rookie year when Josh Allen is his QB, but I am also one who is optimistic about Keon which I get you are less optimistic on him.

I am surprised I had not heard about this from a few days ago and I don't see it on the main page, so not sure if its been shared here. To call him not only overrated, but one of the MORE overrated players in the NFL goes beyond stupid. https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2024/7/15/24199160/nfl-exec-considers-bills-qb-josh-allen-overrated-despite-espn-top-3-rank “One of the more overrated players in the NFL,” a veteran NFL executive said. “Immense talent but he makes a lot of mistakes. He’s underdeveloped at winning at the line of scrimmage, tends to lock on to targets, more of a thrower than precision passer, forces throws into traffic.” You want to have some critiques...fair, all players have things they can improve. But the overrated nonsense is comically stupid...which is why they were too much of a wuss to put their name on it. I love it though...just more fuel for the beast Josh Allen! Almost everyone in sports media came to his defense (except Nick Wright who I wont even bother to post here). Here are just a few of those clips where they talked about what an absurd statement this is:

Read my post a couple posts up...he is gaslighting you...he is BS'ing you and using a false context of my quote that was clearly pointed out to him more than 5 times. And my original comment was in reference to one of your posts, which you can see I quoted in that post above too. Haha...that was money. Nicely done

LMAO Cut the BS dude...The balls on you to accuse me and call “bulls**t” while you are in fact lying. Ok then, can’t believe I actually have to even do this.…but let’s go to the receipts lol You just flat out lied...yet again. Not only is that NOT my original comment that you first replied to...but its not even the full comment of the post you took it from. Why, because if you quoted the full post it would expose you are lying. But don't worry...I got you covered More comically you are trying to use this same lie in other posts in attempts to gaslight other posters too lmao. So...let me help you by sharing the ACTUAL post you responded to ORIGINALLY and the posts that followed where it was VERY clear what we were discussing EVERY time. This is my ORIGINAL post below that STARTED our conversation. Since you struggle with facts and truth…I will make them easier to read with bold and larger font 👍 SPOILER ALERT: What does it say? Hmmmm....TOP 3 RECEIVERS (weird no TE's or non-starters). PAST 4 or 5 YEARS (weird no Josh Allen rookie year where he didn't play a full season...and was well a rookie and nowhere near the player he is now). CAREER HIGH (weird doesn't say new career high every single year). As if I am not already at Mic Drop levels...let’s keep going cuz this is for the people! 😂 👇Here is the ACTUAL FULL POST that you CHERRY PICKED a GENERALIZED ending quote from (in RED below) where you didn't quote the WHOLE post because it VERY CLEARLY states PRIOR to that what we SPECIFICALLY have been discussing since the BEGINNING. 🤯 Oh that pesky truth right? LOL But let’s keep it going...because you were REPEATEDLY told even after this every time you desperately tried to misrepresent what my statements originally were. So you can't even claim ignorance, you were told over and over... POST NUMBER 3: AND YET AGAIN... Sadly, there were even more examples still…But hey, no need to post them all. I still have the rest of your nonsense to address below... Getting back to the rest of your nonsense comments...👇 No you didn't. You gave me a post of gibberish that was wrong, inaccurate, and not on topic. Hahaha oh boy...ok, you keep writing them, so lets take them one by one: Clay - Played with Allen his rookie year when Allen didn't play a full season...so not from "the last 4 or 5 years"...nor is he a WR. Benjamin - Played during Allens rookie year only when Allen didn't play a full season....so also not from "the last 4 or 5 years". Foster - This is the dumbest one...HE LITERALLY HAD HIS CAREER HIGH WITH ALLEN. And the year 2 you want to talk about...FOSTER DIDN'T PLAY, he was in the coaches doghouse...something ALREADY told to you too. And again, it doesnt matter he already set a CAREER HIGH with JOSH ALLEN. Davis - He has ONLY played with Josh Allen...therefore his CAREER HIGH is with ALLEN. And I know you don't like him, so I seriously doubt you believe he will beat his career highs in Jax...doesn't matter though, because still his CAREER HIGH is currently with...wait for it...JOSH ALLEN. Knox - SEE DAVIS ABOVE. Also NOT A WR. But lets talk about him anyway...15 TD's and over 1100 yards over 2021 and 2022...CAREER best seasons and does anyone expect he will put up 9 TD's again? Doubt it. Doesn't matter though...CAREER HIGH is STILL currently with...wait for it...JOSH ALLEN. McKenzie - LITERALLY put up his CAREER HIGH SEASON with JOSH ALLEN. Brown - LITERALLY put up his CAREER HIGH SEASON with JOSH ALLEN. Beasley - LITERALLY put up his CAREER HIGH SEASON with JOSH ALLEN. Sanders - HURT and I literally said other than Crowder and Sanders who had injuries from the early outset. Sherfield - NOT A STARTER, didn't play much...and we were discussing...wait for it...STARTERS. Harty - SEE SHERFIELD. Now its time: 🎤🫳

Nope you’re wrong as you don’t seem to even understand what is being discussed. That is NOT the comparison…you either misread it or didn’t take the time to see what we were discussing. What I wrote was about the comparison of Keon coming out of college vs Gabe Davis coming out of College as a 4th round pick. And within my good convo with Gunner, he added some additional comment about something Gabe eventually improved on which I agreed with him on. 👇👇This is the original question by me👇👇 It was a direct comparison of Keon and Gabe as rookies.

Haha, come on, that is not even remotely close to what I said 😂. But hey, no surprise you are trying to change it so you can try and spin away from this silly narrative you are on. I even gave you the benefit of the doubt on Clay...but turns out he too only played in Allen's rookie year where we already established Allen didn't play a full season. So you are back to zero players that failed to reach a career best season starting with Allen when injuries were not in play.

Agreed it was better in years 3 and 4, that is assumed with any player who has any success in the NFL. But...Keep in mind, the comparison is where they each are in respect as rookies, not after Gabe had 3-4 years of NFL coaching vs Keon as a rookie.

I agree with a lot of this, but the area I disagree is about the route running and separation part. IMHO Keon is a little better off the line with more moves and faster feet than Gabe had (and Gabe never really improved there) which IMHO gives an edge over Gabe to get earlier separation, an area Gabe was not strong at. Gabe also ran a limited route tree because he wasn’t a sharp route runner and tended to round his cuts and angles. Keon is more athletic by a lot and his foot work and cuts are cleaner and sharper than Gabe, and that allows Keon to have a wider route tree and cleaner routes IMHO than Gabe had coming out. But I don’t disagree about the rest of your post much, just that I do think Keon has an edge over Gabe coming out on route running and separation earlier in the routes for those reasons.

I said WR’s in the follow-ups when we got into specifics, but ok, going back to that post it’s both. So your lone example of a failure at a career high while playing with Allen is Clay in 6 years? Got it. So many failures lmao compared to all the successes…lol. You’re still wrong