Alphadawg7

$150M x 5 years for a WR who isn’t even in the top 10 in the league at his position? Gross…and I like DK, but man that is some serious coin for a good but not really elite WR - IMHO.

Im still in on DK, but I am just skeptical how realistic it will be if what’s reported is accurate is all. So just bracing for the fact that neither him or Hendrickson may be really possible for us to land. I have no doubt Beane is looking into both, but it takes more than just our interest to make it happen.

Diggs I assure you will have no impact on his decision to trade for DK or not…neither will the 2nd round alleged current asking price. But the $30M a year and the dislike for cold weather might though. $30M for a WR not even in the top 10 of his position is pretty high, and one who doesn’t like to play in the cold isn’t helping his case. Im all for landing DK, but looking at the probability of it (assuming what is being reported is accurate) seems less and less likely. I would love to land him or Hendrickson (although Hendrickson is my first choice), but there are things working against us in both those trades that go beyond just whether Beane is going to attempt to. I mean with Hendrickson it’s a big question if they even trade him, let alone would they trade him to a perennial top 3 AFC team directly in their path to a SB. Especially since Burrow wants to keep him…I mean how badly would they piss of Burrow by not only trading him, but helping a major AFC opponent get even better? So starting to look around the landscape and think that big trade may just not be there to be made with several already signing extensions and the last 2 big ones have aspects that make it seem less probable said players would come here. So my focus is now starting to look more heavily at FA and the draft with a small hope we can figure out how to pry away one of these big targets.

This was always going to be the case since the day we signed him. It was always essentially a 3 year deal, and hats off to Von who took a pay cut instead of having to do a restructure last year that made this move still possible. I think there is a better than 50% chance he resigns here for less as a situational player. He wants a 3rd ring with a 3rd team and wants to be here and I think the FO is open to him coming back on a deal more representative of his role. Low cost vet depth.

He knows this because he still incorrectly believes we should have drafted Worthy. That’s his proof lol

Coolio…good chat and I’m confident we are adding a vertical threat somewhere (FA, Trade, or Draft) Cheers and GoBills!

Dont get me wrong, if I had to choose between Garrett and Groot, I am all in on Garrett too and then looking to the draft. So no disagreement from me. But, I also don't think Groot's deal prevents us making a run at either Garrett or Hendrickson. Whether or not either gets traded or either would trade them to a perennial top 3 team in their own conference is another story. And I also think Groot is worth a lot more than $10M a year, and at $20M in todays market, thats a bargain IMHO. I think Groot is going to be even better once we improve elsewhere on the DL too. I mean as much as everyone wants Hendrickson, he didn't break out as a sack machine until he was in the league a little while.

I do agree with you that the target should have been BTJ...but outside of him, there really wasn't a player like him remaining on the board. And lets keep in mind, despite missing time, Keon still put up over 500 yards and averaged like 20 ypc as a rookie. Imagine what Keon can be if there is another guy on the field making his job easier. So all I was trying to say, and again meant no disrespect by it, but this notion that Cooper was some "admission" (and a lot of people use that term, so its more to TSW as a whole than just you) midseason is just not at all reflective to what was really going on. Can't expect to replace 4 WR's in one offseason when you are cap strapped and fielding $31M to the position in dead cap already. But when Beane saw the chance midseason to add to the group and not kill our cap then or now, he pulled the trigger. People should be looking at that as a positive, not a negative as if he is admitting he screwed something up (which it also wasnt). We should want a GM who is managing the cap in a way to keep us being a contender year after year and keeping young talent coming in while still aggressive at making moves to try and get us over the top when the opportunities are there midseason too. It was always going to be a multi year rebuild at that position given the amount of turnover in one offseason and our cap situation. I mean who was taken after Keon that resembles anything close to BTJ? So the only move was to trade up for BTJ...nothing else was there to be done. And we may have tried, we may not have tried, we don't really know. But make no mistake about it...I do think it is a mistake if we didn't try given I felt BTJ was worth the move heading into the draft, and actually expected it. But, again, maybe we did...there is no info confirming either way, but I do suspect we didn't.

Well when we need to get by teams like the Ravens for example or could face teams like the Eagles in the SB...stopping the run is pretty important given everyone else on our team sucks at it. You want to win in the postseason...being able to run the ball and win in the trenches is important. Which also means you need to be able to defend against that as well. And I do think he will be even better once we fix the guys around him, and I expect us to make moves on the DL this offseason via FA, trade, or draft or some combo of that.

I mean no disprespect...but...This statement that keeps getting repeated needs to stop, its kind of ridiculous to be honest. At no point was our WR room ever considered done, complete, good enough, or whatever else someone wants to infer Beane thought of it. We only had 1...just 1...WR on the roster that could play after Diggs and Davis departure. Diggs trade cost us $31M in dead cap. Our cap was already tight. It was a mini transition year moving on from age and bloated contracts to get our cap healthier and our roster younger going into this season and beyond. For anyone to even imply Beane felt the WR room entering the season was done, good enough, etc is just silly. He put together some low cost vets, drafted a guy, and went into the season hoping that both Shakir and Kincaid, their young holdovers, would also continue to develop. And why...because we didn't have the cap space to be aggressive for a high priced vet, and we also had a lot of roster turnover of some key positions and needed to stock pile draft picks to try and get some new starters and some new depth at various positions. So no, its not at all accurate to label the Cooper trade as some admission of anything. Beane is always looking to help this team, and at the beginning of the season we couldn't afford a Cooper, nor was he available. He wasn't even available when we initially inquired as Browns first rebuffed our interest. Beane saw a team who could contend and a player that could help us now that was cheap and on his last year of his deal, so he didn't hurt the cap this past year and wouldn't be a cap issue this offseason. All this other noise that people label the trade is just rubbish...it wasn't an admission Keon was a mistake either (as others label the move)...it wasn't an admission of anything. It was Beane being aggressive as a GM and seeing a move he could make in season that upped our chances to compete that didn't thwart our future plans. He was ALWAYS going to keep adding to the WR room after we signed and drafted the guys we did. Now can we say it was a mistake to not go get BTJ...well if he didn't attempt to, I would say yes given his fit for what we needed and the fact he was almost as good a prospect as the big 3 who all went top 10. But...we also do NOT know if he attempted to or not, so its kind of hard to even hold that against him without knowing if he tried or not. Although I think he was looking to move down, not up, so I do think its more likely a missed opportunity.

At this price...this is a win. I was leary about paying him what I thought he could command, was worried it might hit the $25M+ range after Crosby's deal upped the market. This is a great move IMHO by Beane, and can't wait to see him with some help added on the DL this year which IMHO is a given that is coming in some fashion...FA, Trade, Draft or some combo of those.

I think Beane takes more slack than he should on drafting, in fact, I would argue he has been one of the better GMs in the league, and the stats support that. However, I thought for sure BTJ would be our guy if he got to 20 last year or lower. Now, I don't know that Beane didn't try, I mean he could have and gotten rebuffed. But, I don't think he did because in all his talk before the draft, during the draft, and after the draft it seemed pretty clear they entered that draft with the mindset to pick at 28 or trade back, with trading back probably the preferred choice given who they expected to be on the board and for the purpose or recouping the 3rd rounder we used on Rasul. And Beane said as much in terms of wanting to get that 3rd back. And look, I get it, it was a major turnover year getting rid of a lot of age while we had $31M in dead cap alone from Diggs. Trying to get as many picks as he can while trying to restock with youth isn't necessarily a wrong choice. And it was considered a deep draft at WR, so also get that. However, I do feel like BTJ was almost as good as the top 3 who all went top 10. He was right there, and I feel like getting him when he got that close should have trumped getting another late 3rd. Again, he could have called and got rebuffed...we may never know unless he publicly says he didn't attempt to move up or did. But, I don't think he did to be honest, and I do think not trying was a mistake because BTJ was just too good a prospect. I had BTJ and Ladd as the 4 and 5 guys in the draft at WR, but Ladd didn't make a lot of sense in terms of type we needed heading into the draft, so for me BTJ was a no brainer. I felt the same way when DK was in the draft too, like he should be our guy in the first...then in the 2nd...then in a trade up when he was still on the board. So for me, if he really didn't try to get BTJ in a draft where we lost Diggs and Davis, then I think I can mark that one down as a mistake in my book by Beane even though I really do think Beane is a great GM.

I guarantee Beane has looked into Hendrickson, especially given the reported interest in Myles. I say that because he would be just as good a get as Myles, but would be cheaper to acquire and a more absorbable cap hit upon extension. But, it’s a big question mark whether or not Bengals would send him to an AFC contender though. So not sure how “gettable” he is for us specifically. My thought is make sure we make the best offer and put Cincy in position to have to decide on taking a lesser offer or our best offer.

Are you really complaining we scored an avg of 28 against 2 of the best defenses in the AFC in the playoffs? And no 29 was the magic number vs KC. They hadn’t scored 30 the entire season. But refs and our defense helped make sure they did nullifying what should have been a win for us with 29. Same Chiefs team was down 34-0 at one point the next game.

But, no one on that defense was a difference maker. There were no elite players on that team...their best defender that was the only real difference maker (Tre) tore his ACL on Thanksgiving. Its not about defensive rankings...its about having guys who can make the plays when they need to. Chiefs didn't field the top defense in the league each of the last 3 years, but they had guys like Chris Jones make huge plays to close out games, including beating us at home and preventing a TD to a wide open Aiyuk by blowing up the OL and getting to Brock on down and goal to help seal that SB win. And here...we give up 35 PPG to the Chiefs in our 4 playoff losses, while those same Chief teams lost the next game 3 of those times averaging just 17 PPG in those 3 games. So what that tells me is that our scheme is part of the problem, KC just has their kryptonite against our defense (we were the only team to allow them to score over 30 this year, again a week before they were down 34-0 at one point in the SB). If you want to over come that, you better have some players who can succeed on some plays despite the scheme struggles.

I like this, good value on both sides IMHO. I think its a fair deal and once we upgrade the beef in front of him he will be even better. Durability will be a concern, but its not like he is hurt all the time either.

I was being realistic about the stat lines more than just adding magic numbers in if that makes sense. We have scored more points over the last 5 years than any team in league and in 2024 we were 16th in nfl history in PPG even though Allen sat week 17, and several weeks we took the 4th quarter off or even most the 2nd half in quite a few games as we were blowing them out. So just adding a new WR first off means they are taking the snaps and production away from someone else. So it’s not just 10 more TDS, they are replacing production that was already in this offense and spread around and instead getting enough targets to do it themselves. To add 10 more TDs overall to this offense that was already one of the greatest in terms of points in history is no small feat. Especially when that would mean we again had a lot of blow out wins where we took the foot off the gas late in games if we are scoring that many points again. The offense only gets so many opportunities. Bengals with both Chase and Higgins don’t score as much as we do. Neither do the Eagles, the SB champs who have Saquan and two stud WRs. So that was where I was coming from, the realism of what those stats would mean. And adding more pressures, sacks, and TFLs would lead to more 3rd down stops and points to get the ball back in Allen’s hands more, which also helps the offense. All good, just explaining how I interpreted the poll

He’s 4 years older with a history of neck injuries…he’s not getting the Crosby deal IMHO

Well my main point was that those 10 TD's for example are going to be scored by this offense no matter what. Doesn't mattter if its a top 5 WR getting them or if its spread around other guys, or its Allen or Cook running them in, etc. We score those TD's already, you are more just changing whose stat sheet records them, not generating an additional 10 TD's we were not previously already scoring. But on defense, adding more negative plays such as sacks, TFL's and also pressures (which wasn't initially included but comes with sacks and TFL's increasing) will reduce opponents scoring, increase the effectiveness of the rest of the defense as QB's tend to make more mistakes under more pressure or the threat of pressure. And by default that also gives our offense more scoring opportunities by getting off the filed on 3rd down more times rather than allowing extended drives, especially given our defense was amongst the bottom of the league in 3rd conversions and first downs allowed. So the defensive guy in this scenario does more for this team...both defensively and offensively by giving the offense more TOP through getting off the field more, and with more TOP they have more opportunities to score. And IMHO the debate really isn't even close in this case as to which player benefits the teams overall success more.

Someone on our team will already account for the 1000 yards and 10 TD's...we have the highest scoring offense in the NFL the past 5 years, 16th most PPG in NFL history in 2024. But no one on our team is getting us those sacks and TFL's. We need that more than anything. 4 highest scoring teams in NFL history did not win the SB. 1 and 2 got shut down, even one blown out, in the SB by conservative offenses with strong defenses. 3 and 4 didn't even reach the SB. Only 3 teams in the top 10 scoring won a SB. Mahomes best season as a QB and offense they didn't even reach the SB. Yet the went to 3 straight with a medicore offense and won 2. So history and statistics say otherwise that more scoring is the easier path over improving the defense.

Hopefully we go sign Punt God back...oh wait... Too soon?

Yeah, I have a hard time seeing them get a first. The only thing that had me concerned was like a week or so ago, believe even in this thread, there was allegedly buzz Packers were prepared to offer their first and Doubs or Wicks which in my mind no one is gonna match or beat. But the reality is these guys don'g get traded for as much as people think they will most of the time. Look at all the Myles proposals...all these people keep foolishly throwing in guys like Groot, Milano, or Cook into our trade offer totally oblivious to the concept that there is 0% chance Browns want salary back, espeically high priced ones or ones where they are due big contracts. Their cap is crushed for 3 years, with the first 2 years being the worst, with just the Watson contract alone. Browns won't be able to build a competitve roster in a division with Lamar and Burrow plus the Steelers for at least 2 to 3 seasons at the absolute earliest. They are going to just lose and increase their draft capital while shedding the cap hell they are in to build as much young talent as possible. Browns most likely will carry near or above $100M in dead cap the next 2 seasons between Watson and trading Myles. Yet people keep proposing deals with Cook and Rousseau both due big deals during that time...guys who are not even probably worth the money they will demand by the way and they wouldn't likely keep My guess if DK gets moved, because he needs a new deal on top of it, the top end of the trade comp is likely get a 2nd and some change...either a player or another day 3 pick. But, if the Packers rumor is true of their first and a WR, I can't see us, or anyone, competing with a better offer. And all it takes is one team to really covet a player for a team to get more than expected.

Hahaha...touche....yes I concede much better. I almost used this one but was worried the poster would think it was directed at them rather than the tweet lol

He wont be underrated on draft night IMHO and he is on my short list of WR's I want on day 3 in the draft this year. But I think he is going to go earlier than people are mocking today. He is the kind of guy GM's don't want to see people talking about because they don't want his stock to improve. If the Bills want him they not sure how they get him as I do not think he will get to our pick in the 4th. And with his size and speed and after BTJ rookie season, it wouldn't surprise me if he was gone before the 4th especially if buzz picks up.

They were saying a first earlier in this thread plus Doubs or Wicks...that is the offer I was saying I doubt we would be able to best if that turned into a real offer. If its a 2nd and Doubs we can be more competitive and get in the mix.