Alphadawg7

Me personally, I always felt Hollins was going to have a bigger role than people thought. I saw him play a lot when he was a Raider and he is a legit WR...but it is all the dirty work he is so good at and wants to do that made me feel he was going to play a bigger role than people think. The kind of role that doesn't always show up on the score board either. Ability to block as a WR is important on this team and it is the one void left by Davis that needed to be filled. And of course there is his ST abilities too. I personally thought MVS was a guy who would be fringe to make this team, his inconsistent hands was never something I saw sticking here. I just thought it would be Claypool that would make him expendable, didn't expect that to be Shavers...who is actually making both MVS and Claypools paths to the roster harder.

This is also true...and always true TBH...however, the things that makes the buzz on Tyrell stand out as more interesting is 2 fold: It isn't so much camp reports, he is getting specifically mentioned and praised by Beane, the coaches, and Allen. And they are backing that up by giving him snaps with the first unit even though we have no injuries to open up those reps. He is getting them because they feel he has earned him. That is a big sign of his stock rising because while every camp someone makes some plays or gets some observer buzz, its not very often that person is going on to see first team reps, often not even 2nd team reps.

No he hasn't. Why do people just say stuff. In his 4 playoff years totaling 11 games played, he averages 2.18 rec per game. Has he had a couple big catches sure, but so did David Tyree and he didn't make his Super Bowl winning teams roster the next year either...just like MVS. But to say he has been a "very good" playoff performer as if 2.18 rec per game cements him as our WR4 is just over the top. He has had Rodgers and Mahomes...both teams moved on...never broke out for either team, literally lost KC games last year with drops. Hollins has a firm grasp on WR4 right now...MVS and Claypool can still battle him for a role in this team, but it will not be easy to overtake Hollins right now. And quite frankly Tyrell has impressed the coaches all offseason and his bid for the 53 is a legit possibility too right now and is now a threat to both MVS and Claypools bids for a roster spot.

I will forever never understand how anyone can let a QB who has off field lingering issues still who needs to find a new team to play for convince them to give him a 100% guarantee contract. Not only does this look beyond stupid today, it was beyond stupid the moment the news broke. No player should ever get 100% guarantee contract, let alone a guy who is a total POS off the field.

Still incorrect. He has not beaten anyone out, why you insist on doubling and tripling down on this is confusing. Do you seem to think a rookie is defaulted the starting job upon being drafted? And therefore if he does not reflect that starting role on day 1 of camp then he has somehow "lost" his job and has been "beaten" out and must "regain" his job during camp? Because that is exactly what you are describing and its incorrect if so. But hey, phrase however you want for yourself, no biggie. But literally neither Hamlin, Edwards, or Bishop have beaten anyone out nor have they lost anything to anyone. It is an open competition and they are all getting reps with the 1's to see who makes a claim to be the starter as camp and preseason continues. Hamlin started getting reps with the 1's most likely because he was the only one who knew the defense too...he has excelled with those reps and become part of the mix in competition, but he hasn't beaten anyone out at all. And in fact, 2 or maybe even all 3 will likely see time with the 1's in the preseason. More importantly, there is no reason for McD to even rush Bishop into a starting role come week 1 given someone like Edwards, Hamlin, or maybe even Hyde (door is not closed on a final season return for him if he clears medicals) can open the season until Bishop gets more time to master the system given the importance of the S role in McD's defense. So I would not even panic if he isn't starting week 1, in fact, I don't expect him to and think its more likely he is in for specific packages and as the season goes on he will potentially be in position to take over the starting role if he shows he is ready.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but no disrespect but this is just not accurately portraying the situation. Hamlin by no means has beaten anyone out, not even Edwards. It’s an OPEN competition and all 3 are getting reps with the ones.

No disrepsect, but its actually a little bit crazy to call it "beating him out" on day 1 of pads when comparing a rookie to a guy who has been here 3 years. And S is arguably the 3rd most complicated position to learn on this roster behind QB and MLB given how McD uses his safeties. It is day 1 of Pads...no one has beaten anyone out. Hamlin was the incumbent guy ahead of him because he knows the defense, he isn't ahead of Bishop because he has "beaten out" Bishop who is still learning the playbook, language, and system. Not to mention, Bishop has been getting his own reps with the 1's

This is why I have been saying both before the draft and since the draft Keon is like a blend of D-Hop and Brandon Marshall which is why I think his potential ceiling is very high.

I think it’s very possible. They really have been talking up Shavers who might make the 53 and puts MVS and Chase in potential danger because Hollins is a lock almost at this point with Keon, Shakir, and Samuel. Shavers even got some reps with the 1’s last practice and made the catch on his only target. Something to watch moving forward

I didn’t take it personally, just saying that there have been a lot stupid things about Allen and it’s fair to push back at those. This wasn’t one of those things. And ever social media comment is negative, that doesn’t reflect the fan base.

I disagreed with your post because it’s silly to say people will hate on the Pegulas because people don’t like any criticism of Allen. What people don’t like is absurd statements by idiots that don’t reflect reality on any level. Sure maybe there are a few extremists, but don’t paint everyone with that brush as just about everyone knows that every player has things they can work on and Allen is no different. I’m sure just about everyone will agree that Allen becoming more of a vocal leader and “CEO” type on the field is a good thing with him balancing the guys guy off the field.

He didn’t say it was going to look just like this, he said the offense is going to be scary with Allen having his best season yet. And while none of us know what will happen until the season is over, the potential for this offense to be scary is real…potential for Allen to have his best season is real…just like the potential for the offense to struggle is real. Thats both the exciting and scary parts of making major changes to a team that wasn’t getting it done and was getting old. And the good news is that Beane has armed himself with cap space and lots of extra premium draft capital next year to make major moves to address any areas that prove to fall short of expectations this season on either side of the ball

Hollins is as close to a lock at this point as it gets. He will be on the roster, he will play snaps at WR because he is both a credible WR and excellent blocker…and he will be a ST Captain

Wait...we don't have some budding star at backup QB behind our elite QB? Fire Beane.

And to be clear, I have no issue with your specific stance even though our opinions on the upside of Keon and Shakir differ where I see a higher ceiling than you do. It is totally fair to be on either side of that fence right given it is as you say "unproven". Where my point comes from is the degree a lot of other people push that "unproven" aspect to a level that also implies "improbable" with the posters who wade much deeper than you in negative side of the swimming pool. But here is the one thing I do definitely disagree with what you are saying, at least in your language being used in the bolded above. On one hand you talk about how they are "unproven", which is true and means both they have not proven one way or the other what their capabilities are yet given youth and circumstance between Keon (rookie), Shakir (ascending after a breakout), and Samuel (in his prime, never had a credible QB yet though). But in this bolded, you also state they are one of the worst groups in the league "on paper" and "entering the season"...which I won't even argue given it is fair for you to say with so many changes and things yet to be seen. However, the issue I have is that you follow that by then stating it is all on "Josh and Brady to make due with they have" which sounds a lot like saying them needing to make Chicken Salad out of Chicken S**t. And that kind of language closes the door on this "unproven" group actually proving your "one of the worst groups on paper" grading inaccurate or wrong. I am not saying that you even believe that or not...I am saying your use of language there doesn't imply there is room for them to outperform your "on paper" opinion wrong and that the success will be solely on Allen and Brady to overcome this group.

Lol, my track record on receivers is pretty stellar around here, so I am more than confident in the things I said even though you are absolutely blurring what I actually said in this sarcastic comment to be different than what I really stated in all of the above.

Let me first clarify that this comment I am about to make isn't solely at you, just replying to you since yours is a recent comment. But this is more a general response to what is said a lot around here by numerous people who are less optimistic, skeptical or flat out have a very negative view on this group ahead of the season. There are two things that have been beaten to death and are being made more of than they really are, and in some cases being over exaggerated. First: Way too much is being made of this "unproven" aspect as if it implies "improbable". Is it true to say its "unproven" like in the context you just used...yes. Did you over exaggerate it...NO, but you do say it a lot. But others shout this from the mountain top as if "unproven" also equates to "improbable" and they know who they are. And that is where IMHO it is being way over stated and over exaggerated. If our top of the chart weapons were made up of guys like MVS and Hollins...sure, I would say the "unproven" aspect of them being one of the primary or even the top primary target is a significant concern because they are more established in who they are. But we are talking about a TE that as a rookie was 4th and 10th in NFL history for rookie TE's in catches and yards. A WR in Shakir who just led the team in receiving the final 10 games over Diggs with just 38 targets to Diggs 80 targets over that span while also leading all WRs in the NFL in Catch % and one of the best YPT last year. And a rookie in Keon, where I get people are split, including you who doubts his ability to be a WR1 in the NFL, who despite all that has legitimate WR1 upside and everything coming out on him right now has been over whelmingly great. From on field performance, to work ethic, football IQ, commitment, and running 100% exclusively with the 1's. And Samuel has never had a legit starting QB in his career either and entering his prime now. Optimism that one of them, or more than one of them, can continue to ascend and form a strong top of the chart group is a very legitimate possibility and not at all as improbable or daunting through constant repeating as some make it sound. Second thing is: Too much is being made about their not being a "Diggs" on the other side of the field. Yes, there are advantages and benefits to there being a guy who consistently gets extra attention, but to the degree its being discussed is way over the top in this thread. If you read some of the posts here you would think its impossible for any offense or receivers to have success or play well without a top 5 WR on the field to draw attention. Not to mention, we already have an Elite player that garners extra attention still in Allen who absolutely teams need to spy. And furthermore, to assume no teams are going to have to cheat attention during games towards any of our weapons is just naive, there will be guys on this team still getting doubled or defenses selling out to stop on a certain play and to think it won't happen without Diggs is just not realistic.

I would take Keon long term over Mooney 100% of the time. And honestly by the time week 1 gets here and Keon has a full camp and preseason complete, I’m probably taking Keon week 1 too over Mooney unless Keon ends up struggling during camp and preseason, which so far it’s nothing but stellar reports coming out. But that is also because I am optimistic on Keon and also know Mooney is not a WR1, at least not a good one. Keon I firmly believe will be a WR1 and will be ready to start his ascension come week 1.

No, I don’t think so at all…he isn’t going to be over Keon who has taken all snaps with the 1’s and I seriously doubt he is going to be ahead of Samuel coming into camp who Brady wanted and has experience with. If they valued him over Samuel they would have signed him.

That is just your opinion, and one I definitely do not share. If I am an NFL GM and I have to choose between Mooney and Kincaid, I’m taking Kincaid. Shakir and Mooney…I am taking Shakir. Keon and Mooney…I am taking the upside of Keon. I get you don’t believe in those 3 players to the same degree, but I would bet money that Beane wouldnt swap any of those 3 for Mooney. And I’m not even saying Mooney is a bad player, just saying to say he would be our “best” and “our instant WR1” over all 3 of those guys is over the top and quite exaggerative given Keon hasn’t even started a game, Kincaid is just entering his 2nd year, and Shakir is coming off a year 2 breakout as he gets ready to start his 3rd as a major part of the offense.

It’s pointless to argue talent between two players based on yardage totals when targets are drastically different. Both Mooney and Samuel had been saddled most of their career with poor QB situations. Debating whose was worse is a pointless exercise like arguing over whose dogs poop smells worse. Samuel IMO was the better signing for our team both in fit, history (Brady connection), and contract (based on our cap issues this year). Arguing which player is the “better” player before seeing either play with a credible QB is going to accomplish nothing until we see them play with real QBs.

This is why I was telling people yesterday not to sleep on Hollins when some saw that MVS got some run with the 1’s. Both Allen and the coaches love Hollins and he is not only a credible receiver, but he does all the dirty work too like blocking and going all out every play. It’s also why I said Hollins is directly in Claypools way, so if Claypool wants to climb the depth chart he first has to find a way to get ahead of Hollins…which won’t be easy.

You want to see them both have their moments. It’s good to see the D adjust and make some plays and the offense do the same. If one side dominates all camp it generally means the other side may have some issues

It’s amazing to me that the hard core naysayers don’t even understand the kind of potential Brady has with variations and creative designs with this unique and diverse group of size and skill sets.