Alphadawg7

I disagree its a problem. I think the bigger issue is a lot of fans haven't accepted that Hollins is not Shefield...he will play a bigger role in the offense. He is a very good blocker and that is an important aspect to the offense and really the only positive commodity we lost in Davis leaving. But more than that, he is a capable WR out there and has been showing that during camp, so its not like he will only come in on obvious run situations only. Now you factor in he has missed a little bit of time, so of course they are going to keep mixing him in and getting reps with the 1's because he is going to be getting relevant snaps this season, so he needs to develop timing and rapport with Allen and the ones because that is who he will be playing along side when he is out on the field. So how does anyone like Chris Brown or Tasker expect Hollins to build chemistry with Allen if he doesn't get enough reps with him? So IMHO, I think they are reading too much into the fact that Hollins is getting reps with Josh. Its not at all an indicator of how they feel about Keon. In fact, all that Beane, McD, Brady, Allen and even other WR's have done is gush about where Keon is right now, how much he already understands for a rookie, how far along he is. There has been literally zero indications of any kind that they feel Keon isn't ready or where he should be right now. Respectfully, I don't think what so ever that the rotation of Hollins into reps with Allen has anything to do with how they feel about Keon. And unless every coach, player, reporter, and observers are lying about how well Keon has been playing thus far, then I think its pretty safe to say they feel pretty good about where Keon is right now too. Furthermore, Keon has exclusively, 100% of the time, run with the ones since the start of camp through now, including both preseason games. They are not treating him like a guy who is behind anyone on the depth chart, and they don't do that unless they are firmly in that slot. And of course...none of that means anything in terms of how well he will or won't play come regular season, just talking about what he has done on the field, off the field, in the team meetings, etc thus far.

Since when is Keon behind Hollins? They haven’t released a week 1 depth chart.

I do like what I have seen in camp and preseason from some of our deeper guys, but they are still untested with only Rasul and Benford proven players. I am not saying they won't trade Elam, but I do feel like he is playing well enough that they may prefer to keep him this year given it leaves them with a lot of mystery behind Rasul and Benford in the event of an injury. And its a defense already trying to adjust to a whole new group of safeties and life without Milano too.

Personally, I think Shakir would go much higher than Dotson even right now. I watch or listen to a lot of sports talk shows...not the Stephen A Smith kind of garbage either. Good shows where they regularly have guests that include current and past head coaches, GM's, players, etc. And when they are talking about the Bills this year, they almost always talk about how good they think Shakir is, loving his game, etc.

At first I thought I would as I read it quickly and thought it was him getting traded for a 5th...then as soon as I read it again and realized it was a 3rd...nah, I wouldn't pay that price for what essentially would be a backup WR because as you said he is a bit redundant with Shakir and Samuel here, who I think are both better players anyway. I would be open to a trade that pushes MVS off this roster though because I am not looking forward of having to refrain from throwing things at my TV when he puts on a drop clinic to put even Davis to shame.

Depends on how much full go practice time Edwards gets in before week 1. If its very little, then I can see them still going with Hamlin, at least to start on week 1.

CB is maybe our thinnest position on the whole team right now. We don't have a single proven player behind our starters.

Geezus

You didn't answer the question I asked...as usual. But don't bother...Ive seen this movie before and its not worth the time investment.

Dude...come on. No disrespect, but how many times do I have to say we are not discussing ANY evaluations by me, you, gunner, or any one specific person. What is being discussed is the entire fan base and what the most common negative reaction to Keon has been...which is they believe him to be too slow. I clearly know that 40 times do not matter significantly in separation, I have been preaching that to the "he is too slow" crowd all offseason. I will accept this as progress...I mean I have been referencing the entire fan base the entire time. For the love of all things, can we please move on from this incredibly unnecessary conversation

Again, we are talking about the entire fan base. You realize this board doesn't even represent 1% of the fan base right? You realize that even the majority of this board over weights the importance of the 40 time every year right? You realize that even the NFL knows this and why the 40 is the most covered and talked about event at the combine because of it. You realize coaches even reference this in interviews and things talking about how too much is made about the 40 all the time. This is the same country that believes memes over verifiable facts. But you think I am being unreasonable by saying the casual fan (which is the majority) over values the 40 times? See above...I do not at all agree with this and it shows up every year in every medium that covers the draft, combine, etc.

Ok...so now it must specifically say "40 time"? You are just going to ignore every refence of him being slow, calling him Kelvin or Funchess to..wait for it...say he is slow. The issue for the 40 time was that it was slow. And if you think for one second that the most common reason people think he can't separate isn't because they think he is slow, then I don't even know what to tell you. For the 100th time...we can agree to disagree.

What do you mean what. You just told me separation isn't mostly a 40 thing, and I said I know, I know what separation is and its not all about the 40. What is confusing to me agreeing with your statement and letting you know I am aware of that already? This is a suprise...this won't go well around here lol.

Lol...its in black and white all over this board. This is so ironic because all you have done is project your personal evaluation to be that of the masses. If you think anything other than a tiny percent of the fan base does even 10% of the deep diving you do then you are naive.

I know what separation is. I know it isn't a 40 thing. This is not about me or any evaluation I have on Keon or disputing anyone elses evaluation on Keon. The discussion is what the MASSES believe. And the masses across the entire NFL fan base do NOT understand how insignificant the 40 time is, which is why it's the single most talked about event at the combine each and every year. The majority of the Bills fan base was not out there evaluating players and watching film before the combine. The most common concern amongst the masses was he was too slow...and because he is too slow, he won't separate and that is why they believe he did not separate in college.

Lol...yes there is. And that is becasue they think he is too slow lmao...dude let it go.

This right here...absolutely. To be honest, I almost started a thread on him and how he may have been the best addition that no one is talking about. I am still personally a little concerned with depth a bit if injuries occur because so much is unproven in real games behind our starters, but I am definitely less concerned than I was when camp started as we have seen these guys have strong camps and preseasons so far.

Again...pre-draft discussion is a SMALL group compared to post draft hot take reactions by the masses. We are discussing the majority, not the few that did their own pre-draft analysis deeper. I am not at all disputing your assessment, or that of anyone else who did deep pre-draft work, and I was also part of that group. We are talking about the majority here and what the top concern/complaint has been. And that is the perception he is slow, where the biggest contributor to that belief was his 40 time.

He has no value in trade IMHO I agree, I thought coming into camp Elam needed to flash to stay both in competition and on this roster by week 1. If he didn't show significant progress I thought Beane would look to move him before his value all buy disappeared by sitting and not playing a 3rd year. But he came out strong in OTA's and built on that in camp to where he is legitimately competing to start after a very good camp and looked good in preseason too. And my biggest concern on the whole team entering camp was CB depth as we had nothing to be confident in behind the top 3 guys, so any injuries things would get sketchy. So between his strong showing and being this close to the start of the season, I doubt they would trade Elam now. Side note: I agree with your list too. Hardy is for sure making the roster IMHO, he has played well at CB even on the outside despite his smaller size.

Don't do the twisting words game so many do around here to save a bad take. That is beneath you. You were wrong when you said only 8 mentions about it in 6 pages...I mean there were 6 refences to him being slow on page 1 alone of 109 page thread of which is just one thread of dozens on him. And in those 6 pages, the number 1 complaint was he is slow. And the NUMBER ONE reason people think he can't separate is because they think he is SLOW. Why you are still going on about this is still is wild, especially when I threw out 4 times now to agree to disagree. There is no confusion. So tell me, what is the number 1 reason why people don't believe he can separate in the NFL? Because they feel he is too slow. I mean why do I have to even spell this out at this stage is beyond me. And I am as involved in the pre-draft process as anyone around here.

Ray Davis I had ranked as the third best RB in the whole draft, been a big fan of his game. Doesn't mean Allen isn't a good prospect or can't have a good career too, but I am riding with Davis.

Gunner you are a great poster and I respect you. But if you think that reading 6 pages of one 109 page thread is making a logical case, then you are just saying things to just say things now. If you think assuming every comment that said they did not like the pick WITHOUT citing WHY automatically means it had nothing to do with speed...then you are again just saying things to say things. None of that is logic let alone a logical case. Furthermore, it was not just 8 times in 6 pages as you claimed...I just went through it again, there were 6 references to him being slow or compared to slow players on the very first page alone. And over the 6 pages, amongst the negative comments (which the majority were negative reactions) that actually said something that indicated what they didn't like about him, speed was the most common reason by either directly stating it or comparing him to Funchess, Kelvin, etc to reference how slow they see him as. I have not ignored anything...you just haven't presented anything to dispute the fact that people were not up in arms about his speed, and what little you did provide was incorrect So...For the 3rd time, lets just agree to disagree because this is maybe the 2nd most unnecessary conversation I have been in this offseason.

No...its not. The majority DON"T cite WHY they hate the pick in those first pages. You don't get to take all the "I hate this pick" and dismiss it has anything to do with speed just because they didn't state in that one comment within minutes of him being drafted. You act like those people didn't continue to comment in that thread and others where they did say what they didn't like, and it predominantly came down to speed. People think he can't separate...because they don't think he is fast enough...because he ran a slow 40 at combine...despite the fact he ran fast in other drills. I honestly can't believe we are still even talking about this. Again...just gonna have to agree to disagree like I said in my last post because there is a 0% chance you are going to convince me, or even make a logical case for, that the most talked about issue with Keon has not been about him being too "slow".

I have read it too…first comment in the thread was about his speed as were several others. The vast majority don’t specify why they hate it just that they hate the pick. But it keeps getting talked about as the thread goes on and in dozens of other threads from that point on. I can believe we are even discussing this TBH. We will have to agree to disagree that Keons 40 time was not the catalyst for a majority of the initial negative views on him and just move on.

Im not saying it has no place on the board or isn’t a valid thread, but I don’t know I would call a thread about someone’s feelings “excellent” discussion either.