Alphadawg7

Agree, and Davis is a very good receiver out of the backfield. Now, he has to demonstrate he can replicate that in the NFL...but if Davis shows those good hands here and Cook keeps dropping would be gimme TD's (believe he had 4 dropped TD's), then Davis may cut more into his reps earlier than expected.

Thanks Happy for finding and posting all these. Another reason why over reaction yesterday was premature. I think it is important that people be a bit more patient this year, good or bad, because there will certainly be some ups and downs as there is a lot to adjust too on both sides of the ball. I think people forget we technically have 2 new Coordinators at OC and DC, so new language and systems are being installed, especially on offense. We have a lot of personnel changes on both sides of the ball. Allen reportedly made some tweaks to his throwing motion he is working into his game. Obviously, the only WR Allen has any timing and rapport with was Shakir, so he needs to build that with Keon, Samuel, and the other guys too. There is a lot of youth between rookies and young players looking to compete for big roles this season too.

2 things: You do not actually know that. That is your "offseason on paper" personal opinion and grade. The reality is that nobody knows how good or bad the group will perform as they have never taken a snap together on the field. Also, KC has not had a good WR room the last 2 years and is the reigning back to back SB Champs. More than WR's catch the ball...to isolate only the WR room about the Bills is being disingenuous in assessing the weapons as a whole. Allens weapons are not only the WR room, but Kincaid (and still has Knox too) and our RB's saw 80 targets last year and could rise to 100 this year given both Davis and Ty behind Cook are very good receivers out of the back field too. Im not going to debate whether they are bottom 5 or not...because I do not know how good or bad this group is until we see them on the field. I don't care about paper rankings in the offseason, they are as meaningless as post draft grades before rookies ever take a snap. I do know that Shakir had a mini-breakout last year, Cook broke out, and Kincaid had a great rookie year. We have added some solid vets who have never played with a QB nearly as good as Allen around the youth. One of those guys, Claypool, is still young with a lot of talent if he can learn how to play the game the right way and work his way on to the team. Point is...people running around here making a fuss over the fact guys like Isabella, KJ, and Shavers getting reps in OTA's is a waste of energy. The WR room is an open competition and its only the first mandatory OTA's, of course they are going to give guys a look because the pecking order is fluid after Keon, Shakir, and Samuel and once real camp begins the guys at the bottom trying to beat the odds will get less and less reps.

Huh? Beane is literally known as the most direct and forthright GM with the media in the entire NFL and its why he is such a sought after guest, he gives real insight into how he thinks as a GM and gives good informative answers. I can't remember any GM in history who has been as upfront and straight forward with his plans, approach, etc ever. McD and Beane are maybe the most honest combo of a HC/GM in the league. Now McD as HC can't be as forthcoming as Beane because he gets asked a lot more sensitive questions that needs to stay in house, but he also doesn't come out and BS people with a bunch of lies either.

Did you really just compare some bottom of the depth chart guys getting some snaps in OTA's with Shavers and Isabella to Tyreek Hill? LOL And Hill went to 2 SB's BEFORE he was paid $30M dollars in which he has not won a playoff game since being paid that, which includes a 5 game losing streak weeks 12-17 in 2022 with Tua until a 3rd string rookie QB saved them from missing the playoffs by breaking the losing streak week 18. It also includes both Tua and Hill being in the MVP convo much of 2023 and holding a 4 game divisional lead with 5 games left and still not winning the division and barely making playoffs. It includes only 2 wins in 2 seasons against teams with a .500 record. So point is...big expensive WR's don't guaranteed you anything.

Like I said he is a good back, and I like Cook, but the question was is he top 5 right now...and he isn't better than OJ, Thurman, McCoy, Lynch, Freddie, Henry, at least not yet. And honestly, it will be hard to unseat those guys, all of them could do it all where Cook is more a finesse RB than a bell cow type player. He is going to put up stats in a high octane offense, and that will drive his price tag up as a FA. But if he went to a team who didn't have Josh Allen, had a mediocre OL, will he still put those stats up? Probably not, he just isn't that stud RB even if he does compile enough stats here to appear so. He gets most of his yards running through huge gaps, he isn't facing 8 man boxes designed to stop him or the run game. They have to worry about Allens arm and his legs too. So...when his contract is up, and his stats or getting him $8M a year or more level attention in FA, do I think the Bills will pay that? I don't personally think so especially since I think someone like Davis has more potential to be more of a bell cow RB than Cook as he may be an even better receiver than Cook, explodes through the line with great acceleration and runs with tenacity too. Now Davis still needs to show that can translate to the NFL, so no guarantees...but if Davis does live up to his potential, are you going to still pay Cook a sizable contract or let him walk and roll with Davis on a rookie deal 2 more years and then find someone in FA or draft to compliment him? I think if I had to guess today, if Cook continues to compile stats that come FA time its more likely he gets a better deal in FA than we should pay. And its less a knock on Cook, and more the reality of the RB position today as large investments into RB contracts have more often than not proven to be a hindrance than a wise investment.

No offense bud, but no it doesn’t. Thats just feels like looking for confirmation bias to prove preexisting concerns. One, Shakir got hurt and left the field for good, so that alone opened up an opportunity for Isabella. Second, Hamler has long been a guy who had potential to compete for the speed role that everyone just assumes is MVS locked in job, which is crazy because MVS struggles at doing the only thing his job most importantly requires which is catching the ball. By no means are guys outside Keon, Shakir, and Samuel locked into a pretty solid WR position. The rest are all new here or spent their time last year on PS for the most part. They are all competing, that’s why it’s called a competition. And right now, when reps matter the least is when you start giving some of the guys further down the depth chart some looks because come camp those reps are gonna go to the guys higher on the pecking order. I mean this is how mandatory OTA’s go every year and it’s why every year this board falls in love with some WR whose never gonna make the final 53 because this is when they get the most meaningful reps. And as far as struggles…it’s just June. Allen is deploying tweeks to his throwing motion and was off, it’s a new offense for everyone, lots of new players who need time to get timing in sync with Allen, and guys who aren’t going to make the roaster getting snaps and making mistakes like Shavers.

It’s also just June with everyone learning a new offense, getting first reps with Allen, and Allen working on using the tweeks he made to his throwing motion in live practices. How many playoff games did those teams win last year combined? Hint: Less than Bills and rhymes with gyro.

Cook definitely is not, and to be honest, I think Ray Davis is going to take his job at some point because I’m doubtful he gets a second contract here. It’s just the nature of the position now where unless you’re a true bell cow RB it’s really hard to pay them a 2nd contract. And Cook is not that lead bell cow guy, he’s good but doesn’t excel at anything particular and drops too many passes for a guy whose best trait coming out was as a receiving weapon.

lmao

Keon was a first rounder...we traded back. NE was trying to trade ahead of us to get him in the first too. Technicality of us moving back 1 made him a 2nd. Again, there is nothing to support your Pegula is cheap theory. You wanting to handle WR differently isnt proof of that

Henry > McGahee IMO

I really don't get how this is so confusing to you...we have $31M in dead cap in a WR...and yet you seem to be crafting all these wild conspiracy theories about Pegula clamping down on spending because we didn't go get another WR making $28M this year tying up $60M in a single position that doesn't have a lot of cap space and was not in any way some magic pill to win a SB in 2024. Your confusion on the Bills needing to clear cap this year because we were like $50M over the cap reminds of the misguided outrage in 2017 and 2018 by people who could not grasp the concept Beane was cleaning the cap up to start the rebuild before spending big on new players. And how you can doubt Beane's ability to spend when we were one of the most over the cap teams in the league coming into this season, have like the 2nd largest dead cap hit in NFL history on one player, and still hovering near the max cap is just puzzling to say the least. This is the same Beane that paid Von Miller a gazillion dollars for 40 years in an offseason we were also near the max cap because they were looking for that one player to get over the hump after Mahomes put up 17 points in the final 2 minutes of the 13 second game. We will have to agree to disagree. There is absolutely categorically nothing that has happened as Beane has built this team that remotely suggests Pegula is restricting spending other than your personal disappointment in our WR room.

I will admit, I thought JuJu was older like 29...when they did, just further illustrates how mediocre he is because he looked shot last year. For me its less about his total stats for Claypool. We have a lot of mouths to feed and its been made very clear "everyone is gonna eat" in this offense. So I won't gauge whether he is worth resigning based on needing "top 10 numbers" and more on what he does on the field both in production and as a teammate. I mean you can only catch what is thrown to you...the odds of him getting enough targets to put up a top 10 season are almost impossible with Keon, Kincaid, Shakir, and Samuel also here, not to mention 2 RB's who can catch too and will combine for 80-100 targets as well. No one is getting 160 Diggs like targets this year, but several guys will get 80-120 targets each. This notion Chase must be a top 10 producing WR to resign just doesn't make sense to me.

Yes, as I’ve stated multiple times now. Beane has no restrictions and there is categorically no evidence of that. You personally not liking the WR room and your personal preference of wanting to frivolously spend like the “can’t win anything” Dolphins at WR are in no way evidence that Beane is being restricted on spending by Pegula. It’s fine that in your opinion you would have done something different. It’s fine you’re skeptical it will work. But to draw these wild conspiracy theories that Pegula closed the check book on Beane makes no sense and has no evidence to support that.

I mean he owns the team, of course they talk just for the sake of him being kept in the loop. But in no way do I remotely think Pegula is influencing Beanes decisions in any way or his spending. Pegula is not asking Beane to use “a more cap constrained model”. There is not one shred of evidence of that. This is Beanes team. And the only person he counsels with for input is McD, and even then, make no mistake about it, Beane is the unquestioned final decision maker. Just like how McD has 100% authority over how he coaches the team without Beane trying to influence who he wants to see play more or less. It’s as good of a HC/GM relationship as there is in the league. And Pegula does not at all meddle in either of their business even though (like for any owner) I am sure he is aware of what is happening and being kept in the loop.

I don't think its that black and white and quite honestly there is really zero similarities between the Chiefs decision on JuJu and what the Bills decision on Claypool would be if he has a good season. JuJu was still just JuJu...a mediocre WR on the decline of his career who wasn't worth his contract. He didn't have that good of a season for KC to where they had to bring him back, in fact everyone knew they needed to upgrade from him still and tried through the draft and also needed to save money because of cap issues. If Claypool turns it on here, he has his whole prime years ahead of him, brings so much more to the table than what JuJu was going to bring to KC if they brought him back. So if he has a good season here, it will come down strictly how confident they are in his character moving forward on whether or not they would resign him. Because talent is not the issue as we all know, it's been his immaturity and mentality. He has so much talent Chicago traded a first-round pick during the 2022 season despite the maturity issues he was having with Steelers.

Nobody huh...hmmm...yet the Bills seem to have made this very decision. I mean according to you and everyone who has not stopped talking about DHop here for 2 seasons, he is both available for trade and affordable for the Bills. Yet...wait for it...they signed Claypool rather than trade for a 32 year old WR. So can you really say no one. when again according to all your previous posts, DHop is just sitting there available for a trade if the Bills wanted him. So much so, you have along with so many others said you fully expected the trade. Im not really sure what was confusing for you about my last post. I was talking about now and future benefits...and I very specifically said that it was ONLY if Claypool put it together here because the talent was NOT Claypools issue. I even said if I was a betting man, I would say Hopkins likely has a better year because its no small hill Claypool has to climb, but he is also like WR6 right now, so pretty low risk situation for the Bills with very high upside if it works out. If we were in a ALL IN must win now mode...sure, you take a look at more sure commodities like say a DHop (or maybe someone not so old). But we aren't, and Claypool is the kind of low-risk vs high reward signing that makes sense in a season you have $31M in dead cap for a WR on another team. You are off the deep end and doubling down on this idea that Beane is being cheap under the direction of Pegula and its not even worth discussing further it is so ludicrous. It may be the wildest thing anyone has suggested all offseason, and that says something. And Beane went out and drafted a good WR prospect...and signed a good WR in Samuel to play with another good WR in Shakir with a good receiving TE in Kincaid. We are talking about the bottom half of the WR room right now with Claypool and you act like its where you make or break a SB team. You are being dramatic because you didn't get the WR that YOU wanted when they drafted Coleman. Don't sit here and pretend Beane didn't make moves while handling $31M in CAP tied up in a WR on another team, and he found good depth competition in Hollins, MVS, and Claypool where someone like Claypool has starting level talent if they can help get the kids career back on track. Meanwhile...next year, we have a ton of cap room with Diggs and Vons deals gone and a lot of extra premium draft picks to address whatever positions need to be addressed.

Now you are talking about FA which has nothing to do with what they offer on the field. Claypools talent is undeniable, its does he have the inner fortitude to get past his demons. Claypool at his best brings more size, speed, and youth than Hopkins does today. If you put a gun to my head and said who is more likely to have the better season, its obviously Hopkins because Claypool is an unknown essentially of what you are going to get. But, I prefaced that IF Claypool can get it together here, then he would bring more to the table right now. But it is a big ask, and there are no assurances. And if Claypool has a great season, who says we cant be the one to sign him. We won't have Diggs or Von to pay next year, retaining him if he proves worthy is not a problem. Weren't you critical of the Coleman pick because of his speed, or am I mistaken (honestly not sure)? Because Coleman ran a faster 40 than Hopkins did when he came out at his pro day...and that was before Hopkins was 32 years old. So if speed is your concern, than you should be rooting for Claypool to get his act right here. One, we are in a transition year...there are a lot of unknowns on both sides of the ball. Can we still win it all this year...yes we can if have hit on a lot of those changes and they show that early. But its also not an "All In" season. This is setting the foundation for the next 5 to 7 years of Allens prime, to be a perennial SB contender and hopefully champion. There is no reason to kill a bunch of cap space on an aging player and take reps away from younger players who have more long-term value. And that is what a lot of you miss. We aren't "rebuilding", but we also are not in a position to go "All In" and making moves like we did with Von when we felt a player away. Next year we have a ton of cap space and lots of extra premium draft picks (two 2nds and three 4ths already) for them to now see where we need to start pushing our chips in. If its WR then so be it, they will. If its our pass rush, they will do that too. Maybe its CB where we still don't know if Rasul will still be here then. This is kind of a ridiculous statement and RALPH PTSD. There is absolutely no way Pegula has any influence on this. I mean we are near the top of our cap with $31M in dead money to Diggs alone. Nothing about what we did this year says Pegula closed the check book. This isn't really complicated...we have Hollins, MVS, and Claypool because $31M is tied up in a WR who plays for another team. We used our first-round pick on Keon, our first and 4th last year on Kincaid, and we have a young ascending Shakir. They brought in some vets to pair with the youth that were affordable because again $31M is being taken up by a WR on another team. And more importantly, Beane understands an elite WR1 is NOT in any way been proven to be a prerequisite to win a SB. And if we know one thing, Beane is aggressive...if Josh's weapons prove to not be good enough, Beane has the ammo to make the moves necessary, and will, next year.

It's always worse in the offseason where we don't have a weekly game to spark new stuff. And, all in all this is still light years better than any other board I have seen. Go spend an hour on FinHaven and you will see what hell really looks like.

I mean Hollins and Claypool I would say are hard to pin down. Hollins when given a big role and playing with Carr put up a pretty good season. Claypool started his career off with back-to-back seasons over 850 yards playing with the ghost of Big Ben as the WR3 before his immaturity derailed his career. Both are in the best situations of their career now with both an elite QB and opportunity to get on the field. MVS...meh, he is what he is. Claypool has undeniable talent and has starter potential...where Hollins is probably suited to be a role player who brings his most value in blocking and ST.

I am doubtful any move like this is made until they see what the group of Hollins, Claypool, and MVS look like when the pads go on and things intensify. If Claypool can get it together here, he has a lot more to offer now and moving forward than Hopkins. If the WR's are consistently struggling or there is a big injury, Hopkins feels like a potential candidate if Beane feels he needs to make a move as preseason rolls on.

No one is debating that Shakir has to show he can go to another level this year. JAGS do not have potential...they are guys who don't do anything particularly well or great. They are guys who you know exactly what they are and have established that already. Shakir may not YET be a "star", but he sure is heck is not YET a JAG either. By your definition every rookie in this past draft is a JAG because none of them have proved otherwise yet. McKenzie, Zay Jones, Kumerow, Isabella, etc...these guys are JAGS.

How many playoff games have either of those teams won? Miami really? That is the model you want to follow? In 2 years with the fastest roster in NFL history and one of the best groups of weapons in all of the NFL they have managed to only beat 2 teams in 2 seasons with a .500 or better record. They have not won their division, and blew a 4 game lead with 5 games to go this year with 2 guys who at one point were in the MVP convo in Tua and Hill this year. They have not even won a playoff game. They are the blue print for what not to do and I actually doubt if they can even make the playoffs this year. Last year, with Tua and 6 games to go, they lost 5 in a row. Tua missed the final game of the season where a 3rd string QB came in and snapped the 5 game skid to sneak into the playoffs otherwise they wouldn't have even made the playoffs. They then again barely made the playoffs this past season again and now this year, they have a worse roster than last year. There are plenty of places to where we can and will need to put the money. There are people on the team who will have contract decisions looming over next 2 seasons like Groot, Shakir, Kincaid, Cook, Brown, etc within 1 to 2 years. What are we going to do a Cornerback if we don't extend Rasul? What about an elite pass rusher? Or a big time DT to replace DaQuan at some point here shortly? We still aren't set at Safety. Now, if our WR room proves to be lacking this season, absolutely I can see Beane being aggressive next season at WR. But if our offense is humming with this group, you don't just go sink a ton of cap space into it for the sake of doing it when there are other areas we can also upgrade and young players who if they keep ascending this year we are going to need to start thinking about locking them up too.

Im not picking one trivial stat, I gave you two very impressive stats that JAGS around the league don't come anywhere near accomplishing. A lot...he was our best WR in the Brady era and led the team in receiving while Brady was the OC. Shakir also had 2 TD's in the postseason and the one aginst the Steelers was not only incredible and one of the best plays of the year, but it sealed the win for us. Check his reel out from last year, these are big impactful plays including the Steelers TD. He has a nickname of Deebo Lite because he was such a beast after the catch. He made a bunch of big plays for us last year, not just some random easy catches anyone makes. SHAKIR 2023 HIGHLIGHTS Who led the team in receiving after Brady took over? Shakir. Shakir - 438 yards, 2 TD Diggs - 388 yards, 1 TD With the game on the line against KC on the final drive, who did Bills and Allen look too...Diggs or Shakir? Shakir Im just confused how you can simultaneously say he has a lot of potential and also call him a JAG. That doesn't make any sense, I mean by your take you might as well call Marvin Harrison Jr. a JAG too since he hasn't proven he isn't one to your standards. Obviously, we need to see what he does this year in a more expanded role, so I am not crowning him yet even though I fully believe he will take another step this year. But to call him a JAG right now is crazy to me.