Alphadawg7

These are standard NFL throws, I don't know why you care calling the "miraculous". Any quality starter can and should hit these throws every week, and needs to do so consistently. Allen never has had good touch downfield. He either cannons it on a rope where he can over shoot or just miss...or when he tries to put touch he under throws it so its defended/intercepted, or when its caught the receiver can't advance the ball. It is literally his most well known weakness in his game. Allens best down field throw is when he has a guy wide open or a clear shot to him, usually on a scramble drill where he can just rip a liner right to him or he can lob the ball over and even though it takes a while to get there the receiver can still make the catch. He is not a guy who shows touch. This whole season, his back shoulder attempts to Keon have mostly been poor throws, these passes here were poor throws. The one that should go to the inside, Keon does stumble, but still beats his defender and any ball inside Keon not only has him beat, but even if the ball is not thrown well, as long as its inside Keon has the position to box out and maybe even draw the PI. Throwing it outside was either a critical mistake, or he tried to go inside and just threw a poor pass. The other one all he has to do is put some air on the ball and get it out in front. Instead josh shows the lack of touch and awareness and throws a liner instead. NOW - That doesn't excuse Keon for the mistakes he ALSO made on these routes. The one that should have went inside he stumbled, but still managed to win his route. But he has to get cleaner releases to consistently get open in the NFL, he has to be better with his feet. On the one Josh threw the liner, Keon also let up some on that route for some reason, he needs to run that route crisp to consistently win on those. In both cases he still got open, but I still want to see both those routes run better and cleaner from Keon too, so he doesn't just get a pass here even though he got open both times.

Geezus dude, taker you Haterade glasses off for one second. If you cant see how thats easily a 5-6 yard gain min on completion then I don't think you are capable of having any type of rational discussion or just don't know what you are looking at. Keon is at the 35 where the ball would have been completed and can turn up field for another yard or 2 easily on the catch. Its like you have no idea where that pass would be thrown on that route. Lets move on, you have no interest in logic, facts or reason. You only have a full blown agenda against Keon. Everyone and their mom knows this is a mistake by Allen to not take the yards and at the very least set up a 3rd and short instead of 3rd and 10. The fact you are arguing against it is one of the most absurd things I have seen this year. There is not point in discussing football with people only interested in a crusade.

It was 100% the mistake to not take 6 yards on 2nd and ten. The fact you’re even debating it says you’re not gonna be objective in any conversation about this

No disrespect, but even when you are shown clear facts you always down play or disregard them if the facts don't match your bias. You can't even admit that this was a clear mistake by Allen. It was 100% a mistake, and a bunch of other TSW people I was chatting with live in the game off site and I were all screaming at Allen for not throwing this pass when it happened. You know it is possible Allen can make mistakes too right and you can still be able to dislike Coleman.

Tell me you are not open to unbiased dialogue on the subject without flat out saying you are not open to unbiased dialogue on the subject.

With Keon, the targets they are giving him are too much out of the misuse of him, like the over reliance on running Keon downfield for 50/50 balls. And IMHO, Keon, Shakir, and Kincaid should see more consistent targets. Spot on

I will go one further, all WR's tend to do this, even the elites. The bigger issue here is that we are NOT making any effort what so ever to get Keon the ball. Early in the first quarter on 2nd and 10, Allen drops back into a clean pocket and Keon is wide open right in front of him over the middle on an in crosser for at least 6 yards upon the catch and possibly more if any YAC after the catch. Allen pump fakes the ball, then pats it, dances around, and the scrambles out right and heaves the ball out of bands to leave 3rd and 10 instead of 3rd and short or even just getting the first had Keon got some YAC. I was screaming at the TV to throw the ball to Keon. This happens a lot, not just with Keon but other guys. On plays people see Allen scramble they always say "no one was open" on here, but if you look at the film, its not always the case, and often Allen missed opportunities. And I think a lot of that has to do with Brady's offense where guys are not intended to get the ball and they are there to clear out to go to a specific target or check down. Keon has limitations, but we are also not at all trying to use his strengths or get him involved. Last year before injury, his previous 5 games put him on a 1000+ yard season pace. But this year, they continuously still use him poorly, playing to his weaknesses more than his strengths. And now you have a young WR who is hungry and worked hard this offseason not getting chances, it is often going to affect their effort when they "know" the ball isn't coming his way. Not validating that, but just saying it is not a surprise either. Brady and Allen need to sit down and make a point to get Keon (and Palmer when he is back) more targets, get them going. Move them around, call plays for Keon other than called 50/50 balls.

It makes sense from that standpoint if there is no beef between him and McD. But last we have heard and seen, there was definitive tension there. If they have worked that out behind the scenes (and they certainly could have or do so now), then sure it's more plausible. I just don't recall anything public about them clearing the air or tension, but to be fair, it also doesn't mean it didn't happen. And there you have it. That should put an end to the speculation, but no doubt it won't be lol

He is. Maybe the best to ever do it.

I would not object to him being added to the staff, but in terms of the fire Brady and hire him chants going on - it honestly feels a bit like the old adage "The backup QB is the most popular guy on the team" stuff here. I mean when Daboll was last here, there was a "Fire Daboll" thread as often as there was a "Fire Dorsey" thread and now a "Fire Brady" thread...which is pretty much after every loss where the offense wasn't good. The real elephant in the room is this though: They didn't part on good terms (McD and Daboll). Would they really be interested in working together now? Only if they have since worked their differences out behind the scenes as it never came out in public if they did. My personal opinion is there is almost no chance they fire Brady in season unless the offense goes on like a huge skid for several weeks in a row. When they fired Dorsey, the offense averaged like 19 PPG in his final 6 games or something like that, and against all bad teams. Bills just trounced their previous opponents to the Fins game, including the SB favorites at the time in the Chiefs where Allen was sensational. So for Daboll to come here, he would have to be content with working both under McD again and not as the OC and under Brady. Nothing is impossible, but just feels unlikely given the cold chill that has previously been between McD and Daboll where they don't even want to acknowledge each other after games against each other.

More hype than substance because he isn't instantly winning with a crappy college roster compared to winning with an elite NFL QB? Come on man, you are better than that. Judging him off his first season at a rebuilding college program that isn't a football powerhouse to begin with is pretty silly.

I don't know about that, this team will still be the favorite more often than not. Whether they are SB caliber team is certainly in question after this week - but if this was a one week league, then we would have been Super Bowl champs the week before. So yeah, the one week evaluation isn't very reliable other.

How about you show me where you predicted the Fins would curb stomp the Bills. If you can’t then you really should keep quiet.

And how many of those years were the Bills the one seed? (Zero) And how many of those years did the Chiefs have the one seed? (Three) Thanks for helping make my point though 👍

It’s Brady and Allen. If anyone doesn’t think Allen is having stretches in games where he is playing poor, exhibiting poor pocket awareness, poor vision, and making poor decisions then your are incapable of providing an unbiased review of how he’s played. He was excellent against KC, but he’s not been the same Allen and was not good in all 3 losses and some of our wins. He has had moments in those games, but he’s been off a lot this year. And Brady has been terrible most this season. Yes we need to upgrade at WR still, but these 3 losses are on Allen and Brady more than anyone.

As everyone has said, what will likely happen is irrelevant in this thread. It’s only about the 2 exact choices the OP gave only apparently. And today just proves this was never a choice, you don’t play a 3rd game and all on the road with this team instead of only 2 games, both at home

Probably same as you and every human on Earth including pretty much every Dolphins fan who all thought we would handle the Fins.

Yes.

This is why you don’t play 3 playoff games on the road instead of two at home. You can’t trust this team against lesser teams. This game should really be the nail in this question.

Keon ran a 4.53 at his pro day, other WRs with similar speed have gone on to have great to even elite careers, and Will Levis is a weird example as obviously he could break out too - like guys such as Baker, Darnold, Geno, Gannon, Young, etc did after slow starts, changing teams, etc. But none of that matters, he was never comparing the two, he was just talking about breaking out after a slow start. And yes it’s still possible, but I do have concerns of he can here in this offense based on the reasons I already stated.

This board crapped on Milano, Bernard, Benford, Bishop, AJE, Kincaid, Knox, even Allen, Cook, O’Cyrus, Spencer Brown, Groot, Shakir, and Oliver early in all their careers. Of course no one “remembers” doing that, they only remember the guys they crapped on that didn’t work out like Elam. Or they forget they loved the pick like Ford and then later forgot that when they mock Beane for making the pick.

I think people are missing the point - the OP wasn't comparing him as a player or even peak as Moulds, he simply used Moulds as an example of someone who started slow and then broke out. There is all this focus on discussion comparing the two, but that wasn't the point. So, based on the original question, yes he can still breakout. Will he, is the real question. What I am a little surprised on how they are using him after all the talk from camp and the offseason. All we heard was all the players from Allen, Dion, etc as well as Beane and the Coaches was how much different he looked as a player, how he was the star of camp, always looking like the best WR on the field etc. But despite all that, all they are doing is using Keon as Mack Hollins 2.0 this year. He is primarily used in a blocking capacity and they are not making any attempts to get him involved or get him the ball. Even more suprising was how big of an impact he made week 1 in a key role to help us come back on the Ravens, but they never really looked to get him going in any other game this year. And while that is one part of it, the other part is the frustratingly way that Brady is using him even when trying to get him the ball. They are trying force a square peg into a round hole. They need to study how the Falcons and Colts get London and Pittman involved and going. They move them all over the field and let them run routes they excel at. Instead, Brady seems convinced Keon is the next Mike Evans, and he just isn't that player. He is fast enough, this notion he isn't is honestly absurd. Some of the best WR's in the NFL now and in the past have similar speeds. But their game evolved around that, and we are not doing anything to seemingly to help him do that by forcing him into a similar bad role that he had in College. So yes, he can break out - but I question (and starting to really doubt) if he can here under Brady because of 3 critical reasons: No one in the Bills offense gets consistent targets with Brady's small ball spread the ball offense. Brady's very high value on blocking out of the WR's and Keon being out best blocker doing that Gabe Davis - Mack Hollins type role. How we use Keon and how he would be better as a big slot but he isn't the best WR we have for the slot. It is pretty silly to declare the 1st pick in the 2nd round a bust a season and a half into his career, especially at WR where it can take 3+ seasons before they really start to breakout. But, its a lot harder to breakout when you don't get the opportunities, and when you do, you are getting them too often on routes that are not his strong suit because of the Bills need for him to be that. PS: Keon has gotten open a LOT more than people think. In fact, a lot of our targets have when people have thought "no one is open". Quite frankly both Brady and Allen have not been great in parts of this season, and a lot of missed opportunities have been left on the field. Whether it be Allen checked down too soon, Allen had happy feet, Allen took a short safe throw (usually by design), etc. Doesn't mean Keon is playing well enough, but if we want to get him going, there have been more opportunities there to do so that we have not executed on too. So I do think he has the potential to still be a good player in this league, but at some point, someone needs to make the concious decision to try and find out. And that is NOT at all the philosophy of our offense, and for what we run in this system they have prioritized his blocking (like Brady did with Davis and Mack) as his primary contribution. Final Note: The Hope - I think Gabe Davis return is Keon's best chance to get more involved as a receiving target and not so much a blocker. If Davis can off load some of the blocking duties that Keon takes on, maybe that will create more opportunities to get Keon going as a pass catcher more.

It is, and always been, the 1 seed. It’s statistically and mathematically the best choice. 2 games at home vs 3 games on the road is not comparable. Some of you talk like KC and Balt are some uncontrollable force when neither team is as good as last years versions, we already beat them both this year including the biggest beat down we have put on KC yet last week. But hey to each their own.

Yeah, like I said, scared - thats the literal definition of scared. Well too bad for you then given that there is almost no way that happens to where neither Chiefs and Ravens make playoffs. The entire premise of this thread is based on something almost certainly not going to happen. And here is the kicker - There is no reason the Bills cant be the 1 seed even if Ravens and Chiefs by some weird circumstance both missed the playoffs. I get it is a "what would you prefer" thread, but I prefer we trade for Justin Jefferson too, still not likely to happen. Still, the statistically correct answer is always take the 1 seed, even if the alternative is not having both Chiefs and Ravens in playoffs. Neither team is what they were last year.

For some reason? I have made the reason very clear. 1 less game, and both games at home with no road travels for the team giving them more rest and more time to prepare is an obvious advantage. Not to mention, we have beaten KC more than we lost to them, and just handedly beat them last week. We have beaten the Ravens more than we have lost to them, including beating them every time we played them in the playoffs. But you are for some reason so scared of them that you would rather play more games, make the team travel giving them less rest and less prep time too. Not to mention, less time to mend injuries from a long season. There is no logic that makes that make sense for me, literally can't fathom how that is "easier". To collectively be afraid of two teams who have a 5-4 record and a 3-5 record that we already both beat this year and also beat the Ravens last year in the playoffs. We also should have won the AFCCG too, but the KC game got flipped by refs when they changed a 3 point loss by doing an 11-15 point score flip in the 4th quarter when they twice took away a Bills first down on the same series within 2 plays of each other. So no, I don't fear KC or Balt, especially not this year and not enough to take on an extra playoff game and insure they are all on the road. And quite frankly, the "alternatives" to KC and Balt are not exactly slam dunks themselves, and you have to win 3 times and on the road too.