Alphadawg7

Really? Tied with Russel Willson for most 4th comebacks in the NFL since entering the league (and with a season of scrubs around him) despite missing or not finishing 6 games while Wilson didn't miss a game in that stretch. 3rd highest rated passer in the NFL in the 4th quarter this year. 2nd most TDs in Bills history. 2nd most TDs in the NFL since week 5 behind only Lamar. Its statements like this one that are just hysterically bad and absurd. I mean the facts 100% dispute what you just said, yet you said it anyway.

Lol, I already said I was done discussing it. Has nothing to do with pride or ego, refs made a judgement call (one I have seen them make before) that the player had given himself up. Case closed in my book. Waived off his team and handed the ball to the ref. Pretty obvious he gave himself up. He wasn't under threat, made no motion to advance the ball. Gave it up. Refs make initial mistakes all the time like when they throw a flag then pick it up. Or dont throw a flag when there was a blatant penalty, of which missed PI is not challengeable because it happened in big games. The fact the initial ref didnt immediately blow it dead doesnt matter. The refs met and discussed it and determined he had done enough to give himself up. I will say I am sure this exact situation hasn't happened before. So, refs made the call on the field based on how they interpreted their ability to do so. Having no clear intention of advancing the ball is one of the ways to give yourself up in the rule, the controversy people are hanging on is one word "and". Personally, I don't think it matters, he gave himself up clearly in a way that IS identified in the rule. Just because he didn't do 2 of those things makes no difference to me when it was that blatantly obvious. This play doesn't bother me at all. The missed helmet to helmet on Josh, the missed delay of game on Watson, the free first down to Hopkins who was more than a yard short, and the make believe call on Ford in OT were all way more unforgivable and total gaffes.

Agree on all accounts

I honestly missed this live. Add it to the list of things the refs screwed the Bills on in OT. I am not a guy that harps on the refs, but we got royally screwed multiple times in OT.

Its all good man, I just don't have an issue with the refs ruling here.

You mean the video you put up where the specialist on NFL rules coverage agreed with the ruling? Yeah I saw it, and I saw it live on TV too. I agree the player gave himself up, and have no issue with the refs making that determination based on the series of events. I have seen the refs make other "he gave himself up" rulings before too in various situations.

And its officially the offseason lol.

Funny, I had multiple Pat fan friends text me Saturday after the games and said congrats, the division is going to be ours for a while behind Josh Allen.

Touche, yes got pulled in. But only because like 5 or 6 people immediately all started making the same exact comments to me, so just replied back.

I agree with what you are saying happened on this play. I said the same thing when it happened, that Josh had not committed to running yet and had the ball in his one hand still looking downfield. However, I think the learning point for Allen on this play is that he needs to have both hands on the ball when he is vulnerable like this after having left the pocket. He can take a blind side or back side hit at any moment given he is looking down field. He has to instinctively be able to secure the ball more in his critical situation. Honestly, where he was on the field I think he should have just committed to running, the lane was there.

Not a TD. Nothing anyone can say to me will change that stance. All good. We lost, but not because of this play IMO. We lost because of other terrible gaffes by the refs, especially in OT. Im done discussing this non issue. Go Bills. I know what the safe signal is. I also know its VERY CLEAR that the player was not returning the kick, and therefore was determined to give himself up. Case closed. Move on. Refs did screw us later in the game multiple times. Complain about that and I am all on board. Complaining about this weak play is silly to me.

Refs can still make a judgement call in any circumstance that a player gave themselves up, and they have before. There is like 10 people in the world arguing it was a TD and they are all in this thread lol.

Locks: Allen, Morse, Dawkins, Brown, Beasley Probable: Feliciano, Singletary. Possibly: Knox Knox had some issues with drops and mental errors at times, while also making insane plays other times. His whiffed block in OT on the Allen run may have even lost us the game as Allen likely gets us into FG range had Knox not blew that block. We still have Kroft too signed for next year, and I doubt they give up on him after he missed a lot of the season and never got a chance to gel within the offense. Knox will enter the offseason as a TE2 behind Kroft, it will be up to him to win that job outright, it wont be handed to him and he didn't do enough to deserve it to be handed to him either. Singletary I love, and I think he should be and likely will be the starter next year. But with his size, wouldn't surprise me to see them sign or draft a guy to split time with also. I think he is most likely a featured starter next year though with whoever else we bring in behind him on the depth chart. Feliciano is probably close to a lock too, but the OL I think will get shuffled a little bit, and the only 2 people I think are safe from that 100% are Morse and Dawkins.

Oh yeah for sure, point is even being an Elite QB, an all time elite QB, its tough to get to a SB. People around here often lose site of that for some reason and think the only ticket to a SB is with an elite QB. But come playoff time, defense matters and if you are a one sided team then you likely wont make many SB appearances. I mean Manning also went one and done an NFL record 9 times in INDY. Got blown out in SB with Denver as the greatest offense in NFL history just to go on to win it 2 years later with an Elite D and a bad passing game in his final season where he was a shell of himself.

Except you are wrong. The returner signaled NO RETURN prior to giving the ball up. He established there would be NO RUN BACK via signal and gestured to the ref to give him the ball. There were no players within the immediate vicinity of him. The refs have the ability to make the determination if the player had chosen to give themself up, which they clearly did and was accurate. Refs have the ability to rule that a player has chosen to give themselves up versus being touched down by contact. It was absolutely the correct call to remove the TD. Its not the first time this season a player was ruled to have "given himself up" either. Except the fact refs have the ability to make that determination, and like many rules, its often a judgement call. Here is what you and others are missing...refs are allowed to make a judgement call on whether a runner has given himself up. He signaled no return and tried to hand the ball to the ref. Pretty clear as day that he gave himself up, and refs concurred. Case closed.

You are the one saying the ref initially called it one way. As if that false logic is to somehow prove the validity of your point and play. I pointed out Refs call things wrong initially all the time, hence when they pick up flags. You want to ignore the possibility, well fact, that the ref initially called it wrong. And even in the title of your tweet it says the receiver gave the sign indicating no intention of returning the ball. He then proceeded to try and hand the ball to the ref. Seriously, what is there to even argue? He CLEARLY without question gave himself up, and the refs can make that determination and have before too.

The one big name I am skeptical Beane will pursue is Cooper. His season stats always look good, but his consistency has always been poor. Handful of big games always skew his totals to look pretty good, but if you look week to week he is very up and down. John Brown for instance was pretty consistent most the season, and had the longest streak of at least 50 yards per game in the NFL. But Cooper might get you 180 yards one week and come back with 18 yards the next. He is still young though, so who knows. But he is going to command big money, and not sure Beane is going to want to sign him to the money he will be seeking with such a rich draft at WR and Coopers inconsistency and drops issues.

What are you talking about. I gave a reason, same reason refs gave. Player was determined to have given himself up, they can do that. It was CLEAR AS DAY the player gave himself up on the play, even tried to hand the ball to the ref. There is nothing left to discuss or explain. You just want to refuse to accept that, and thats on you. I am not the one who needs to further explain that, you want to claim it should be a TD (yet at the same time above basically acknowledge its not). Sorry, it wasn't a TD, nor should have it been.

What about refs who throw flags that get picked up? Refs are human and thats why there are multiple refs on the field and they discuss to get the call right. Refs mistakenly throw flags all the time, and they also mistakenly dont throw flags when they should. You want to complain about a ref mistake, then complain about the delay of game that wasn't called on the 3rd and 18 play or the phantom call on Ford in OT.

Here is a simpler way too look at it: How many seasons have Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees played combined? And how many SB appearances did they make and how many did they win? Both had elite weapons most their careers to throw to as well. These guys have been seen to be amongst the best and best ever to play and would be in most peoples top 10 all time. 34 seasons, only 2 SB appearances total (both wins).

Google NCAA vs NFL and guess what, PRECISELY different leagues with DIFFERENT rules. And guess what, not a TD. Imagine that, NFL refs ruling using NFL rules. What other non NFL rule leagues do you want me to google next? Pop Warner clips? XFL Clips? CFL Clips? How about the Lingerie League clips?

Yet it was over turned. Who cares how long they talked about it, it was not a TD. Its not even on the list of why we lost this game. Should not have been a TD, will never be called a TD. A player can be determined to have given himself up, and its not the first time thats been a ruling before. There are about 100 other reasons and plays of why we lost Saturday, this isn't one of them. I said it the moment they showed the replay the first time so I can see what happened...no way this TD stands.

Yeah, I would be shocked if they did. Only reason would be to go into rebuild mode and try and get more assets to rebuild. But there is no reason for that team to do that. They are a pretty good roster outside the QB issues. Big Ben probably coming back for another run too, so I dont see him being traded. I was just responding to someones tweet they shared suggesting they trade JuJu.

You may believe that, but I would bet anything that would not be the case.

He gave himself up. Play was over. 0% chance you or any other person on this board would agree it would be a TD had a Bills player did that. All of you would be yelling he gave himself up. Anyone claiming otherwise is lying.