Alphadawg7

I agree with what you are saying happened on this play. I said the same thing when it happened, that Josh had not committed to running yet and had the ball in his one hand still looking downfield. However, I think the learning point for Allen on this play is that he needs to have both hands on the ball when he is vulnerable like this after having left the pocket. He can take a blind side or back side hit at any moment given he is looking down field. He has to instinctively be able to secure the ball more in his critical situation. Honestly, where he was on the field I think he should have just committed to running, the lane was there.

Not a TD. Nothing anyone can say to me will change that stance. All good. We lost, but not because of this play IMO. We lost because of other terrible gaffes by the refs, especially in OT. Im done discussing this non issue. Go Bills. I know what the safe signal is. I also know its VERY CLEAR that the player was not returning the kick, and therefore was determined to give himself up. Case closed. Move on. Refs did screw us later in the game multiple times. Complain about that and I am all on board. Complaining about this weak play is silly to me.

Refs can still make a judgement call in any circumstance that a player gave themselves up, and they have before. There is like 10 people in the world arguing it was a TD and they are all in this thread lol.

Locks: Allen, Morse, Dawkins, Brown, Beasley Probable: Feliciano, Singletary. Possibly: Knox Knox had some issues with drops and mental errors at times, while also making insane plays other times. His whiffed block in OT on the Allen run may have even lost us the game as Allen likely gets us into FG range had Knox not blew that block. We still have Kroft too signed for next year, and I doubt they give up on him after he missed a lot of the season and never got a chance to gel within the offense. Knox will enter the offseason as a TE2 behind Kroft, it will be up to him to win that job outright, it wont be handed to him and he didn't do enough to deserve it to be handed to him either. Singletary I love, and I think he should be and likely will be the starter next year. But with his size, wouldn't surprise me to see them sign or draft a guy to split time with also. I think he is most likely a featured starter next year though with whoever else we bring in behind him on the depth chart. Feliciano is probably close to a lock too, but the OL I think will get shuffled a little bit, and the only 2 people I think are safe from that 100% are Morse and Dawkins.

Oh yeah for sure, point is even being an Elite QB, an all time elite QB, its tough to get to a SB. People around here often lose site of that for some reason and think the only ticket to a SB is with an elite QB. But come playoff time, defense matters and if you are a one sided team then you likely wont make many SB appearances. I mean Manning also went one and done an NFL record 9 times in INDY. Got blown out in SB with Denver as the greatest offense in NFL history just to go on to win it 2 years later with an Elite D and a bad passing game in his final season where he was a shell of himself.

Except you are wrong. The returner signaled NO RETURN prior to giving the ball up. He established there would be NO RUN BACK via signal and gestured to the ref to give him the ball. There were no players within the immediate vicinity of him. The refs have the ability to make the determination if the player had chosen to give themself up, which they clearly did and was accurate. Refs have the ability to rule that a player has chosen to give themselves up versus being touched down by contact. It was absolutely the correct call to remove the TD. Its not the first time this season a player was ruled to have "given himself up" either. Except the fact refs have the ability to make that determination, and like many rules, its often a judgement call. Here is what you and others are missing...refs are allowed to make a judgement call on whether a runner has given himself up. He signaled no return and tried to hand the ball to the ref. Pretty clear as day that he gave himself up, and refs concurred. Case closed.

You are the one saying the ref initially called it one way. As if that false logic is to somehow prove the validity of your point and play. I pointed out Refs call things wrong initially all the time, hence when they pick up flags. You want to ignore the possibility, well fact, that the ref initially called it wrong. And even in the title of your tweet it says the receiver gave the sign indicating no intention of returning the ball. He then proceeded to try and hand the ball to the ref. Seriously, what is there to even argue? He CLEARLY without question gave himself up, and the refs can make that determination and have before too.

The one big name I am skeptical Beane will pursue is Cooper. His season stats always look good, but his consistency has always been poor. Handful of big games always skew his totals to look pretty good, but if you look week to week he is very up and down. John Brown for instance was pretty consistent most the season, and had the longest streak of at least 50 yards per game in the NFL. But Cooper might get you 180 yards one week and come back with 18 yards the next. He is still young though, so who knows. But he is going to command big money, and not sure Beane is going to want to sign him to the money he will be seeking with such a rich draft at WR and Coopers inconsistency and drops issues.

What are you talking about. I gave a reason, same reason refs gave. Player was determined to have given himself up, they can do that. It was CLEAR AS DAY the player gave himself up on the play, even tried to hand the ball to the ref. There is nothing left to discuss or explain. You just want to refuse to accept that, and thats on you. I am not the one who needs to further explain that, you want to claim it should be a TD (yet at the same time above basically acknowledge its not). Sorry, it wasn't a TD, nor should have it been.

What about refs who throw flags that get picked up? Refs are human and thats why there are multiple refs on the field and they discuss to get the call right. Refs mistakenly throw flags all the time, and they also mistakenly dont throw flags when they should. You want to complain about a ref mistake, then complain about the delay of game that wasn't called on the 3rd and 18 play or the phantom call on Ford in OT.

Here is a simpler way too look at it: How many seasons have Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees played combined? And how many SB appearances did they make and how many did they win? Both had elite weapons most their careers to throw to as well. These guys have been seen to be amongst the best and best ever to play and would be in most peoples top 10 all time. 34 seasons, only 2 SB appearances total (both wins).

Google NCAA vs NFL and guess what, PRECISELY different leagues with DIFFERENT rules. And guess what, not a TD. Imagine that, NFL refs ruling using NFL rules. What other non NFL rule leagues do you want me to google next? Pop Warner clips? XFL Clips? CFL Clips? How about the Lingerie League clips?

Yet it was over turned. Who cares how long they talked about it, it was not a TD. Its not even on the list of why we lost this game. Should not have been a TD, will never be called a TD. A player can be determined to have given himself up, and its not the first time thats been a ruling before. There are about 100 other reasons and plays of why we lost Saturday, this isn't one of them. I said it the moment they showed the replay the first time so I can see what happened...no way this TD stands.

Yeah, I would be shocked if they did. Only reason would be to go into rebuild mode and try and get more assets to rebuild. But there is no reason for that team to do that. They are a pretty good roster outside the QB issues. Big Ben probably coming back for another run too, so I dont see him being traded. I was just responding to someones tweet they shared suggesting they trade JuJu.

You may believe that, but I would bet anything that would not be the case.

He gave himself up. Play was over. 0% chance you or any other person on this board would agree it would be a TD had a Bills player did that. All of you would be yelling he gave himself up. Anyone claiming otherwise is lying.

Did it remain a TD? No, so apparently it was clear to them. There is literally nothing to discuss here.

Yeah I agree. I wont be surprised to see them go after AJ Green on like a 2 or 3 year deal and then still draft a WR in the first to groom behind Green and Brown. To be honest, I kind of think that is what may happen.

WOW lmao...16 pages on a topic thats a non-topic? Come on, no one can really be arguing that we should have been given the TD there right? I mean its clear he gave himself up, whining about its just being poor sports about the loss. ONE MILLION PERCENT no one would be claiming that was a TD had a Bills player been the one receiving and did that. Anyone who claims they would still see it as a TD for the kicking team had the Bills been receiving that kick and that happened is lying.

Im not surprised. He doesn't strike me as a future great HC in the waiting personally. McD gets a lot of credit for the defense too, and should. And like someone already said, the en vogue thing to do is focus on offensive minded HC's right now. But honestly, I think its a mistake. Look around the league, the best HC's in football are mostly guys who came from defensive backgrounds and known for being great defensive minds. And if you look at the Super Bowl wining HC's its apparent that coaches with Defensive minds have dominated the so called "offensive era". 2019 - Pats: Defensive HC (BB is best defensive mind to ever coach) 2018 - Eagles: Offensive HC 2017 - Pats: Defensive HC 2016 - Broncos: Offensive HC, but won with a prolific defense and a below average offense 2015 - Pats: Defensive HC 2014 - Seahawks: Defensive HC 2013 - Ravesn: Defensive HC 2012 - Coughlin: Offensive HC, but won with a prolific defensive and a below average offense 2011 - Packers: Offensive HC 2010 - Saints: Offensie HC So lets recap the last decade. 6 out of the ten SB's were won by teams coached by guys with a defensive background. Of the 4 won by offensive minded head coaches though, 2 were a direct result of a menacing defense. This is why I think its funny when people tell me its "all offense" and that you cant win with a defense or defensive minded head coach. Its just not factually true, and its actually been the opposite. And looking around the NFL first weekend, defense was the story of the first weekend of the playoffs. But every time someone like a McVay comes in and has early success, everyone looks to copy it. Yet McVay still hasn't won anything, had his innovative offense crushed in his lone Super Bowl and now that the league has caught up with him more, seen his offensive success become inconsistent and he didn't even make the playoffs this year. Look at Sean Payton...there was a time everyone was looking for their own Sean Payton. Yes he got a Super Bowl ring, but that was also the only year he had a good defense really. Most years he has flat out missed the playoffs (with a healthy Brees every year) or been upset in the playoffs like he was this year. And its always on some defensive miscue or gaff too. Come playoff time, defense matters. Which is why I think McD is going to have along and successful career as a HC. But like I said, Frazier to me doesn't stand out as a strong candidate, however, I would still prefer to interview him over Daboll if was a team owner.

Thats how I feel too, especially since we could say sign AJ Green and not give up any picks and still use that first round pick on a stud WR prospect to groom for the future behind Brown and AJ Green. Personally, I think if JuJu was to get traded it would likely be a 2nd at best, maybe even a 3rd that he gets traded for. His stock is down IMO right now compared to after last year.

Had we drafted DK, we would have been home on a bye week after winning 12 games and the division. So yeah, would have prevented that But yes, I do agree that Daboll was a big issue Saturday. I can cite a lot of terrible calls. I was getting texts from people who don't normally watch the Bills saying we had the worst play caller in the NFL. The draw attempt to Gore at end of half was probably one of the dumbest calls I have ever seen.

I will never understand why he stopped using Singletary who was having a great game.

I wouldn't hate this...BUT: Did anyone come away this year thinking JuJu is a true #1 WR? Lets not forget he looked great when AB was drawing double coverage every game, but as a #1 he didn't prove he could hang. I know there were challenges between the injury and QB situation, but at this point he is still unproven as a legit #1 because of that and when he wasn't hurt he didnt really have a lot of success. And if Pitt was willing to trade him after losing AB, wouldn't that further raise question marks about their belief in him as a #1 WR?

Like I said before, Daboll can be great (Josh Allen receiving TD) one minute and utterly a moron the next (Gore draw at end of half before Duke TD attempt). I wont hate it if he is back in Buffalo next year (hopefully having learned some tough lessons of being a dumb a** at times), but I also do kind of hope he gets a HC job so we can find a new OC. 2 things I cant stand about Daboll: His stubborn stupidity (obsession with running Gore on first and second down over and over again) and running one of the most complicated and challenging offenses on a team with 9 new offensive starters, rotating RT's, and a young QB with mediocre at best group of receiving weapons to throw to. Brown and Cole are good, especially Brown. But everyone else was mostly useless or mistake prone. I love Knox's potential still, but he had a lot of drops and his whiffed block on the Allen run Saturday may have lost us the game. I want an OC who will focus on building an offense around the players on the team. Daboll seemed to force his scheme too often rather than focusing on best utilizing the players talents and putting them in the best positions to succeed. Felt like he spent a large part of the game setting some specific play to use later in the game rather than just getting Josh and the offense into a rhythm. Personally, I think Daboll was too focused on trying to be seen as a "genius" or "innovator" and that caused him at times to not call a smart football game. And there were times he pulled it off, but too often it bit him in the backside and cost us drives or points IMO.