Alphadawg7

Ok well that makes more sense then. I misunderstood from other Duke threads, I thought that 730 yards came out of his last season when someone had posted his college stats up. Thanks for the clarity on that Still, he was out of shape at the combine after getting kicked off the team, that part is still accurate. He did enter the season as the talked about top WR in the draft though.

But come on, McD/Whaley is no where near the same regime and decision making process as McD/Beane. Not to mention, our cap situation is quite different too (also thanks to Beane). There is no comparison to McD's first 60 days on the job with Whaley compared to today with Beane. Beane is without a doubt in full control of his GM duties. He works with McD and gets input, but its been made crystal clear that Beane is the final decision maker with personnel. Both McD and Beane have publicly stated this. So again, its not the same regime at all that let Gilmore walk nor are we anywhere near the same cap situation either, something Beane also cleared out to both build our team and retain talent.

Beane is the GM. Beane was not the GM then. Our cap situation also is not the same either. So I still say this regime today has nothing to do with that first offseason where Whaley was the GM.

Every players situation is different...Duke not only got kicked off the team, but he self admits he was immature and also considered quitting football all together after getting kicked off the team. He had to find his love for the game again and by the time he did there wasn't much time before the combine and was out of shape. Players kicked off teams who have maturity issues and show up to the combine out of shape don't normally get drafted. And it wasn't at one point, it was based on how he was playing during the actual season. Barkley fell out of the first round BECAUSE of his play during the season. Duke was being projected for first round, and top WR in draft BECAUSE of his play during that season until his poor choices during the season derailed his future for a while. There is a big difference there. It isn't like he was "projected" to be a first rounder BEFORE the season started then fell off because he didn't live up to expectations. Barkely was projected to be a first rounder going into that last season then played his way out of his draft slot.

You are missing the point...DURING the season he was a certain first round pick, and potentially even the first WR taken. Getting kicked off his team and then getting out of shape before the combine all in the same season is why he wasn't drafted. He went on to the CFL and got himself right first...his actual game speed is faster than his timed combine because he was out of shape at the combine from the depression of being kicked off the team. He has admitted this already. His combine is not an accurate representation of his abilities when he is in shape. That would be like me going out and running a 40 after a holiday season of getting fatter compared to running one this summer when I was outside and active all the time.

Ok that is actually an interesting question. Not really a fair one as they play different roles as Cole is a key slot contributor. Truthfully, I think Duke has a lot more to offer still and could be a surprise come camp next year. But Cole has a clearly more established resume and track record to go with his established chemistry with Josh. Not to mention, Cole is a very cerebral player that will aid in Josh's development as well. I do not think it would ever come down to Cole or Duke on the depth chart given Cole is our slot guy and Duke is not a slot WR. But being forced to pick one based on your question, I would still keep Beasley. I mean he plays a vital role, has great chemistry with Josh already, and also is constantly in Josh's ear working to get better on the field which I think is too valuable to ignore. But I will say this: If we ran a full season of Brown, Cole, and Duke as the starting 3 WR's...then I am not so sure Cole would out produce Duke.

No, his combine came after he was out of football for months from the suspension. While he was playing in season, he was already being projected as potential the first WR drafted. He disappointed at the combine, and he even discussed how he was so down from getting kicked off the team and wasn't in the shape he should have been. So people need to stop harping on the combine, it was not when he was in game shape and he was dealing with his personal issues still.

You are the one who keeps messaging me and asking me questions despite telling you to move on, I dont care anymore and I have said my piece. I have just given you the respect of answering your questions. Yet you claim I am after the last word? Geezus dude. Go outside or something man and get some fresh air. Its totally fine you feel differently about it, stop obsessing over the fact that I (and others) dont.

So the 2nd year QB who is tied with Russel Wilson for most 4th quarter comeback wins (despite playing or finishing 7 less games than Wilson over that span) and now a guy who "melts down"? LMAO. The same QB who was the third highest rated QB in the 4th quarter in the entire NFL this year? The same guy who after the first NE game went on to have a 21-3 TD:Turnover ratio to finish the season? The same guy who despite being royally screwed by the refs late in the playoff game had us in position to win the game still? Geezus, where do you people come up with this stuff?

They did NOT let Gilmore walk. This regime has nothing to do with the old regime.

At first, I thought your extended quote was actually his quote, and I was like WTF hahaha. Josh has an IT factor and its undeniable. The players rally around him and the kid is only going to keep getting better, especially as we keep upgrading the talent around him. He isn't a finished product yet, but he is fast ascending and made huge strides this year. 2nd most TD's in Bills history, and an impressive 21-3 TD:Turnover ration since the NE game to end the season. And he is Mr. 4th Qtr too.

29 total TDs, and a 21 TD to 3 turnover ratio since the NE game. Its even better than the stats you showed which were already a nice improvement.

There are two people on this board: Those who think Duke is a scrub because he played in the CFL. Those who see a guy with some upside still and a different skill set than the other WRs on the roster, who also had first round pick potential before his disastrous senior year. There is no in between. There is no shifting anyone from one side to the other. Bottom line: Duke bashers were wrong, they wont ever admit it, but they were because they said he would never make the roster, let alone start or contribute. That doesn't mean Duke is a lock for next years roster or is our future savior at WR. It means, the kid has potential and he stuck around this long and made an impact at end of season for a reason. I think he will be here competing again next year. Whether or not he makes the team or where he is at on the depth chart I think will have a lot to do with what Beane does in both FA and Draft. If Beane just drafts a guy, Duke is going to have a good shot to not only be on the team, but likely open up camp competing to start with the rookie. If Beane both signs a guy like say AJ Green and also invests an early pick on a WR, then I think Duke is looking at competing for the 5th WR spot next year at best. People keep saying this, but they keep leaving out a key detail...he had not been in game shape at the combine after being cut from the team after the bar fight. He was faster than his 4.73 time...he still isn't blazing fast, and of course no where near DK, but he was always fast enough to get open in the NFL and has proven that.

Is holding CLEARLY defined in the rule book? How about Pass Interference? How about what is the definition of a completed pass? How bout forward motion? There are lots of CLEARLY DEFINED rules that the refs are left with making judgement calls on every single week. This one, the player CLEARLY intended to give himself up, and the refs made the call that they felt he had clearly done so. Funny how the NFL Competition committee isn't coming out and saying it was a mistake or ruled incorrectly, nor is the NFLRA. I haven't seen anyone within the governing body of the NFL suggest it was ruled incorrectly or that it was an issue. Not the owners, not the NFLPA, no one. Yet in past clear ref mistakes, they were all over it like the infamous PI play with last years Saints game that led to new challenge rules to counter that issue. Not even the analysts whose only job is to cover the rules and officiating have said it was wrong. So you can rant and rave all your frustration out on me all you want, but end of the day, no one who enforces, makes, or plays by these rules is making the same case as of now. And like them, I don't have an issue with the judgement call of the refs that he had clearly given himself up. PS: Stop trying to convince me, we don't agree, its fine. Rant and rave all you want, but you need to get over the fact I don't see it the same way.

I think Schwartz is an excellent candidate for a HC position, and if I was Browns I would hire him over Daboll...although I want the Browns (or anyone) to hire Daboll so we can get an OC that isn't great one minute and an idiot the next.

You do realize that most rules the are enforced are done so with the judgement of the referee right? You do know that every single possible scenario that could play out on the field isn't going to have an exact definition in the rule book right? End of day, if the league has an issue with the ruling (which they so far they don't) they will address it and the rule to avoid this decision in future instances. At this point, all governing entities have supported the ruling by the refs. Let it go man, I don't care. And to answer your question, every law I was operating under when I had my dispensary was up to "interpretation" based on who was doing the interpretation at that time. There were no black and white laws protecting me, I was at risk based on who was standing in front of me. A judge, cop, city official that was for legal cannabis, I was all good under the so called "law"...in front of one them who was against legal cannabis, not good. Fortunately for me, I was loved by the city, local cops, etc and never had an issue for all I did for my local community. But, after being in operation for almost 5 years, Los Angeles passed an ordinance through a city vote that made me officially illegal in the city limits of Los Angeles unless you had been open before a certain date in 2007, which I had not. Hence why I sold it and started building a television network for the industry instead.

Really? Tied with Russel Willson for most 4th comebacks in the NFL since entering the league (and with a season of scrubs around him) despite missing or not finishing 6 games while Wilson didn't miss a game in that stretch. 3rd highest rated passer in the NFL in the 4th quarter this year. 2nd most TDs in Bills history. 2nd most TDs in the NFL since week 5 behind only Lamar. Its statements like this one that are just hysterically bad and absurd. I mean the facts 100% dispute what you just said, yet you said it anyway.

Lol, I already said I was done discussing it. Has nothing to do with pride or ego, refs made a judgement call (one I have seen them make before) that the player had given himself up. Case closed in my book. Waived off his team and handed the ball to the ref. Pretty obvious he gave himself up. He wasn't under threat, made no motion to advance the ball. Gave it up. Refs make initial mistakes all the time like when they throw a flag then pick it up. Or dont throw a flag when there was a blatant penalty, of which missed PI is not challengeable because it happened in big games. The fact the initial ref didnt immediately blow it dead doesnt matter. The refs met and discussed it and determined he had done enough to give himself up. I will say I am sure this exact situation hasn't happened before. So, refs made the call on the field based on how they interpreted their ability to do so. Having no clear intention of advancing the ball is one of the ways to give yourself up in the rule, the controversy people are hanging on is one word "and". Personally, I don't think it matters, he gave himself up clearly in a way that IS identified in the rule. Just because he didn't do 2 of those things makes no difference to me when it was that blatantly obvious. This play doesn't bother me at all. The missed helmet to helmet on Josh, the missed delay of game on Watson, the free first down to Hopkins who was more than a yard short, and the make believe call on Ford in OT were all way more unforgivable and total gaffes.

Agree on all accounts

I honestly missed this live. Add it to the list of things the refs screwed the Bills on in OT. I am not a guy that harps on the refs, but we got royally screwed multiple times in OT.

Its all good man, I just don't have an issue with the refs ruling here.

You mean the video you put up where the specialist on NFL rules coverage agreed with the ruling? Yeah I saw it, and I saw it live on TV too. I agree the player gave himself up, and have no issue with the refs making that determination based on the series of events. I have seen the refs make other "he gave himself up" rulings before too in various situations.

And its officially the offseason lol.

Funny, I had multiple Pat fan friends text me Saturday after the games and said congrats, the division is going to be ours for a while behind Josh Allen.

Touche, yes got pulled in. But only because like 5 or 6 people immediately all started making the same exact comments to me, so just replied back.