Alphadawg7

Come on... First, Trent wasn't good BEFORE the AZ game. He barely beat the worst teams in the NFL and had mediocre stats in most games prior to the AZ game. Our ST and Defense scored multiple TD's and turnovers in his 4-0 start that really were important to being 4-0. I mean he averaged 230 yards per game and had 4 TD's, and 2 INTs over those 4 games. This myth started back then more out of his supporters trying to make an excuse rather than admit he was just not very good. He was the same QB before and after, nothing changed other than he didn't get to keep playing bottom feeder teams and our ST and Def didnt keep helping the offense by scoring TD's. Josh Allen is not in any way going to be rattled from this. He has taken them plenty of times, literally ran off field pumping up the crowd, etc. Trent was never a good QB, never had any bravado, and was never remotely close to as talented, competitive, or mentally tough as Josh is.

Yeah, I think you missed the point and don't realize we agree. We got threads comparing Allens stats to EJ Manuel trying to prove he sucks. We got threads comparing Allen to all time greats trying to prove he doesn't suck... Its all pointless, no two QB's are the same. The only REAL point here is that its VERY stupid, and literally utterly dumb, to condemn a QB throwing 3 INTs in his 15th start against the greatest defensive mind in history. There are many examples of QB's who had some rough games in the early parts of their careers who went on to be excellent. Just like there are many QB's who never got any better from that point. In other words, everyone needs to stop trying to be Nostradamus on Allens future (good or bad) because we lost to the defending champs.

Someone make it stop.

Thats the point.

Peyton Manning’s first 15 games: 24 INTs.

Guess who threw 24 Interceptions in his first 15 games... ...Peyton Manning. So maybe take a chill pill and use your eyes and realize Allen is no where near the same as Manuel. This board is always full of really stupid hot take over reactions after a loss. This thread is among the contenders of the dumbest ones, so congrats, that’s a hard thing to accomplish in a post loss TSW week with so much competition.

I know Kudos for reaching out, all good?

Someone should pin this response. Spot on.

If you look at 2018, and this roster and dont think Allen didn't also elevate this offense, then you just weren't paying attention. Allen was the whole team last year on offense, and as a raw rookie with one of the worst OL's in football and the worst WR core in football. Lamar had 2 hot weeks against terrible defenses, now has lost 2 in a row and come back to earth a bit. I still like Lamar, but lets not crown him yet because he beat the worst team in the NFL week 1 and then beat up on a AZ defense missing its best players. I am high on Baker, but he's regressed quite a bit this year compared to last year despite having probably the best offensive weapons group in the NFL, top 3 at worst. Actually, this is not very accurate. Fans get this wrong so much, especially around here. There were MANY times yesterday where Allen has NO place to go with the ball or the pass protection simply broke down. Allen cant get the ball out quickly if his receivers are not winning their INITIAL routes. All throughout the game the commentators and even at halftime they kept talking about how the Bills receivers could not get open. Many times Allen had plenty of time and there was literally no one open, and they would even show the replay of everyone blanketed. This leads to Allens biggest flaw, and that is he tries to do too much and force things when the offense is stalling. He just needs to understand how good the defense we have is and know that he doesn't have to force things in a tight game. And before yesterday, Allen was 3-0 and might be 4-0 if he doesn't get knocked out yesterday. Going back to last year, Allen is 6-4 since returning from injury... Losses are: Jets - Special teams blunder cost us the win, not Josh. Dolphins - Zay Jones and Clay both dropped passes on the final drive that lost us that game. Patriots (2018) - Bad team loss, Allen was not very good. Patriots (2019) - DNF (Allen didnt finish the game, but it was winnable when he was knocked out). Even with the offensive woes, we lost this game on ST's - Blocked Punt and missed FG. Allen gets knocked out, but if not, he had us driving again in the 2nd half where he has been at his best and had a real shot to win this game. CONCLUSION: Allen has plenty to work on, he still only has 16 games under his belt though. But he has shown quite a bit of progress this year. He faced off against the GREATEST defensive mind in the history of football (by a wide margin) and struggled early but also put up the only TD NE has allowed all year in the 2nd half and was driving again before getting hurt. Its not time to panic, and also not fair to compare him to Daniel Jones playing the woeful Bucs and Redskins D. Josh Allen looked dominant in week 17 last year against a bad Dolphins team too and had 5 total TDs.

Im not saying he wasn't bad, I am saying its foolish to over react over one game and ignore a lot of the positives we have seen from him since he has been a Bill. But yeah, I dont like to blame the OC either, but wow Daboll was terrible yesterday and I really do think it contributed to Allens struggles. Doesn't absolve Allen, and he gets to own the mistakes, but at the same time Daboll did him no favors yesterday.

Yes, I agree the first challenge was far worse.

Yeah I dont really have an issue with it not being called, but had it been called I would agree with the penalty simply because of the slight step out to impede the DB even though there was no contact. Like I said, I dont really have an issue with this play...and to be honest, my biggest issue on this play was that McD burned a timeout challenging it when I felt there was almost no chance to win the challenge. I do get it as it was a key moment in the game and McD probably strongly felt it was interference, but at that point, the game is a tight game and I wouldn't have wanted to risk the timeout and such a low probability.

Honestly, we beat them on the field, but lost on the scoreboard do to some internal mistakes. Josh contributed to some of those mistakes, but he also led us down the field and got us a TD to be in position to win this game and we were driving before he got knocked out of the game. I do find it funny people are over reacting to Josh after he just played the defending champs, the single greatest defensive mind in history by a WIDE margin, a top defense, and with a personnel group that consists of 9 new players playing in only their 4th game together. Not to mention, he is a 2nd year QB who has not even played a full season of starts yet. Most importantly, Daboll was VERY bad this week and something that has me concerned as he has been wildly inconsistent. I have been a supporter of Daboll, but I am MUCH more concerned about him than Josh right now. He just is not helping Josh out and we don't have the receivers to run what Daboll wants to keep doing all the time. All first half I was screaming to get both Knox and Yeldon involved to give Josh some chances at easier throws and get some rhythm. They finally did that in the 2nd half and drove the field for a TD. Not rocket science. For example: On a key 3rd down play, we went EMPTY backfield with 4 receivers and a TE. HOWEVER, on the left side there were TWO receivers...who do you think they were? Freaking DiMarco and Gore! WTF Daboll!!!! And it wasn't like they started in the backfield and motioned over, thats where they originally lined up. How the **** does it makes sense on a CLEAR passing play to put DiMarco and Gore out wide as his ONLY 2 receiving targets on the left side of the field? It needs to be guys whose primary job is running routes and catching passes, worse yet, why not use YELDON out there for that who is by far the best receiving back on the team? You got 4 players lined up as a Wide Receiver, it should consist of some combination of Brown, Cole, Zay, McKenzie, Roberts, Knox, Sweeney, and even Yeldon. Utterly stupid. We all said BEFORE the ball is snapped, no way we convert this the moment we saw the formation...shocker we did not. There were so many dumb things like this out there that made no sense that I think Daboll is trying to be too cute and complicated at times for his own good. Put your best route runners and hands out there on a passing play on 3rd down, not DiMarco and Gore out wide as Wide Receivers. Yes, Josh made some mistakes and tried to do too much and trusted his arm too much that lead to bad mechanics and ill advised throws. But he also isn't being put into great situation either with some of the personnel, schemes, and play calling during the game and his receivers struggled a lot to get open and give Allen early and easy targets frequently.

I agree it was a penalty, had it been called during live action. But its also a very difficult call to make in live action with the lack of actual contact with the trailing DB. Which also makes it a difficult call to reverse on a review, and lets remember this is the first year even being able to challenge something like that. For me, this wasn't that big of a deal as this is a total judgement call and the lack of contact didn't help the matter. There were other plays where I felt were bigger misses by the refs than this one.

Hahaha I feel ya...why do you think I quit this board for a bit a week and a half ago? Same reason...different topic. An outreach of posters and mods via direct messaging brought me back in But...I picked a bad week to return as I can see its going to be a trainwreck, sky is falling week around here.

Tom Brady is the GOAT. Josh Allen was making his 15th career start. And said for me to stop it? Again, you completely missed the part where Allen TRIED to step up into the pocket which is how you avoid the blitzing safety, but our RG went outside and left an LB unblocked to cut Allen off and get the sack. You keep blaming the safety for this sack, but it was the unblocked LB that caused the sack and allowed the safety to get to him first. So let’s do math. 8 blitzers, 7 blockers, yet TWO unblocked guys hitting Allen, one from the backside and one right up the right center of the pocket. You’re not wrong overall in Allen needing to improve on some of these things, but I also think you’re over exaggerating this play. And again, you do not know if Allen has a receiver to throw the ball to. Last I checked a sack is better than an INT.

By no means am I saying Allen has been great reading the defense. And I wasn’t talking about just this one play and was more talking about overall it’s not always that cut and dry. But you’re also making a lot of assumptions on this play you don’t know are true. You don’t know that Allen didn’t recognize the blitz. You don’t know if Allen had an open receiver to throw the ball to. You don’t know if someone missed their assignment on blocking the safety. More importantly, Allen went to step up into the pocket which would have helped avoid the safety but couldn’t do it because he had an unblocked LB barreling down on him for the sack from the right side. I am just trying to point out that sacks are a result of more than just a QBs decisions. And as fans, we do not know what Allen did or didn’t see, if any of the other players executed properly in their assignments, if the receivers did their job and got open, etc. I am also not naive that Allen has stuff to work on either, including reading the D. He is still a young and learning QB who just faced the greatest defensive mind in history. For me, Josh’s biggest mistakes yesterday were a result of two things: Trying to do too much and over confidence in his arm talent. Receivers were just not getting open often enough against a top defense, and Allen started trying to play playground football throwing off his back foot and stuff to guys scrambling to find some space. He just can’t do that, his mechanics go to hell too when he does that Absolutely most important thing Josh needs to learn from this game is that his defense is Elite. And that means he does not need to force things when it’s not there and just punt and let the D get you the ball back and keep the game close to give you another shot on the next series.

Agree. Definitely not fair to say that Zay should have prevented either or even both INTs. However, the continued lack of awareness and lack of effort to make much of an attempt to prevent them is more the issue, and that criticism is fair like you said. Like I said before, I just don’t think Zay has the mental toughness to be a quality and consistent player. He lacks situational awareness, toughness, and fight.

Somebody has to be open during Allen’s progression through his reads for him to make a quick throw. I’m sure there are people he may have missed on certain plays, but also there were many plays where our guys just didn’t get their jobs done and get open. For a QB to drop back and fire, that means the hot read needs to win his initial route immediately. It also is greatly impacted by the routes called as some routes take time to develop. So if the short route isn’t open and the down field routes are still developing (or not open), then Allen won’t have a place to drop and fire too. Even the commentary during the game and even in halftime show repeatedly talked about how nobody is getting open for Josh which leads to coverage sacks or ill advised throws being forced as Allen tries to hard to make something happen.

Question: How many sacks, throwaways and forced bad throws did Allen have yesterday because his receivers didn’t get open? Hint: A lot. Josh needs help, and having two tiny WRs in Brown and Cole isn’t enough. Zay isnt good enough and just doesn’t have “it”, Foster is hurt and was barely in the rotation when helathy, and McKenzie is more of a gadget player. Its imperative Daboll starts involving Knox and Sweeney more, and early along with Yeldon out of the backfield (until singletary is back). Daboll has to be better too and help Josh out. No coincidence that we scored our only TD this week, and only TD scored against the Pats all year when we did that. Also, it’s time to bring up the Duke. I don’t give a damn who we lose to do it, but it has to happen. Other WRs after Brown and Cole are producing pretty much nothing, so he can’t be any worse but could be a good big target and asset in redzone and third downs. We need a possession WR who can be open in tight coverage.

Says the guy who chased me down for a week to argue Zay to no end and keeps posting this false narrative multiple times now that I promised not mention Zay. Lol. Its all good, but you came at me about Zay, and you seem to take exception if I say anything back.

Except that never happened. Still struggling with comprehension of posts in this regard I see. I gave you a challenge, and you failed miserably at it like you’re still failing miserably here defending a WR that is not very good.

Dont waste your time, he’s dating Zay and nothing you say will persuade him until Zay “drops” him too

So a young QB with a winning record struggles who doesn’t even have a full season of games on his resume yet was facing one of the best defenses in the NFL, the single greatest defensive mind in the history of football by a WIDE margin in BB, while also missing Singletary and playing with WRs who couldnt get open and behind an inconsistent OL still learning to play together...and your take away is to lose faith???? Let’s not forget 8 of the 10 starters around him are also all new and playing just their 4th game together. Come on people.

If only someone alerted everyone to the limitations and weaknesses of Zay Jones back in February... ...if only