Alphadawg7

Thats roughing the passer because he hit the QB all on his own accord. In live play, I too thought he was "flipped" into the QB, but he actually wasn't and dove with his own momentum into the QB. It wasn't "intentional" but it doesn't have to be to violate a rule. Just like running into a kicker does not have to be intentional, but if the defender hits the kicker even while trying their best avoid doing so, its still a penalty. Roughing the passer is not required to be intentional, the rule is the QB can not be hit after he has thrown the ball regardless of the intent of the defender. It is however NOT roughing the passer though if the defender is thrown into the QB by one of the offensive players. For example, had someone physically tossed Milano into him, it would not be called. This is to prevent OL from tying to get free yardage by intentionally making the guys they are blocking hit the QB for a penalty. One thing I would argue is that there should be two levels to the penalty like roughing the kicker with a lighter penalty of 5 yards on plays like this one and then the 15 yard play for the bigger offenses. Especially given some of the real tricky tack roughing the QB calls that have happened across the league the last 2 years.

Thats awesome man! Yeah, it was so crazy to see how big he was when he was hitting a beast in Henry...not many guys make Henry look smaller.

Yup, and considering 2 of the 3 are playing at Pro Bowl levels in Tre and Milano, thats an even more successful draft. Not to mention, that draft helped us land BOTH Allen and Edmunds the next year who one is an ascending young QB and the other is already also ascending but playing near a Pro Bowl level already too in Edmunds. Further more, that 2017 draft also helped us land Oliver. Having 2 first rounders in 2018 and all the extra picks Beane accumulated prevented us from having to trade a future first rounder to try and land Edmunds after we took Allen. People don't realize how impactful and the domino affect of that trade down in 2017 was to landing all 3 of Tre, Edmunds, and Oliver. Today, we are fielding an elite defense because of that and still have an ascending offense with a high potential and high ceiling QB to build around.

I think the Texans are clearly a better offense, but overall as a team, Bills are built to win in the playoffs and I think a better overall team. Weather is worse, and defense is vastly more important than the regular season. If Allen can be careful with the ball, we will be a very tough team to beat come playoff time, even for these potent offenses. The absolute key is to avoid giving those offenses more chances to wear our defense down, so we cant turn the ball over 3+ times against them.

Thanks, I didnt really follow it, just remember fools in my fantasy leagues all wasting FAB budgets buying him hahaha.

Question: Why are people still complaining about missing on Zay over some other prospects that were drafted after? In not only the history of the NFL, but in the history of ALL sports, no GM has even been 100% on their picks. No GM has hit on all their first and 2nd round picks. No GM is even close to being 100%. In the draft we missed on Zay, we also landed Tre, Dawkins, and Milano. To land 3 critical starters playing at high levels is a massive homerun for any GM. The last 2 years since then they have also had pretty excellent drafts too. Yet all I see is people whining about missing on Zay using convenient things they know today that they didnt know then. There were no threads where people were screaming for guys like Kupp, Godwin, Kamara, etc. Most posters complaining now didnt even know who some of those guys were on draft night. Sure there were a few that liked a couple of those people, but on draft night the only other WR people were really talking about was JuJu and even he didn't have an overwhelming amount of supporters. End of the day, our regime has done a great job in the draft, and our team is literally 4-1 right now because of how well they have drafted. In fact, someone could make an argument that in the 2 years Beane has been running our draft, we have overall drafted better than any other team in the league and at the very least top 3. People need to let it go about Zay being a whiff...it happens to every single GM in history. Bill Walsh trade up for JJ Stokes calling him the next Jerry Rice.

Honestly, its the first 6 teams of your poll and in the order you listed them. Bills are firmly 3rd right now in the AFC, however, I do NOT think we are as far behind 1 and 2 as most the media says. I have seen a lot of media people on ESPN and other sites/shows give Bills credit as the 3rd best team, but they say way 1 and 2 are way ahead of everyone else. Pats - We 100% beat them ON THE FIELD but losing Allen and also mistakes we made on our own lost us the game in the only place it mattered, ON THE SCOREBOARD. I can not wait to play them again and I think we showed we absolutely CAN beat them as long as we don't shoot our own selves in the foot. Going into Foxboro will be one heck of a test for this team and look forward to seeing how we handle that challenge. Cheifs - I LOVED...literally LOVED the Colts game plan against the Chiefs. This game reminded me of last years game when the Bears put the blueprint to beat the Rams out there for all to see. The best part about it for us is that this Bills team is built to play the Chiefs in a similar way as the Colts did to beat them, but I would argue we have more potential to have more offensive success against that Chiefs team, especially once we have Singletary back in our lineup. Allen protecting the ball will absolutely be key as giving Mahomes extra chances to put pressure on our defense will be a death nail. I am not saying we are for sure better than either Pats or Chiefs or we would be a lock to beat either. I am saying that this team is built in a way that certainly will make us tough for those teams to face and I think we are capable of beating either them in the playoffs. And once we get to the playoffs, defense becomes an even bigger factor and I think its safe to say our defense is playing at an elite level thus far.

Yeah I totally agree. I honestly think he doesn't have the mental toughness to sustain a long career in the NFL. If he cant change that, he won't be getting many more chances. Hopefully the change of scenery helps Zay in that department. Maybe the drop as a rookie in week 2 got in his head just enough to linger which led to some other drops and mental lapses that just steam rolled into such a bad rookie season. Which then was followed by the embarrassing off field incident...and that all just set a tone of him just being in his head so much worried about messing up again that it just kept impacting his game day performances. End of day, his best chance at an NFL is a change of scenery to see if he can get that part of his game right. If not, I think he will be looking at being buried on a roster or like you said, out of the league soon.

But did the Bills fans, the team, and TSW right

Ah, missed that part, thanks bud

Except I already did all that when the prediction was wrong...so there's that too.

Didn't he announce after AB made his debut that he was returning to the Pats in week 10 or something near the end of the season for a playoff push?

LMAO at this post...back pedaling lol? Whatever man, all good. You know I was spot on everything I wrote in the post, and I even said in the opening of the very post the prediction could very well be wrong. Its pretty petty and silly to sit back and piss and moan still about a thread title that both was NOT the substance of the thread and proved right and missed by only 5 weeks on a prediction made 9 months prior. Not to mention, it was reported Bills tried to trade Zay before week 1 and it fell through,. And dude get off your high horse...I took a ton of s*** for something I ultimately was right about and stayed civil about despite all the trolling I took. I earned the right to poke fun a bit and you clearly have some serious issues with wrestlers or something and also seem to have no clue what the gesture he is doing actually means lol Same people still cant read past a headline and just appreciate what was a pretty good thread for TSW overall and ultimately pretty accurate not just on Zay, but Duke, Foster, Free Agency, and even the trade compensation.

Beast mode ran someone over and fled the scene...he deserved the hate when he was here, but he wasn't hated as wide spread as someone like KB was. Byrd and Gilmore were hated? Sure, they had some critics, but hated? They were not anywhere close to the category of say KB hate and was mostly about their pending contract situations as free agents and what they were worth. Dareus was hated? I think people were frustrated with him at times, but he wasn't widely hated and a lot of people were not happy when he was traded. KB and Zay got the most "hate", but it was really KB that was "hated" where Zay was mostly people unsatisfied with his play and didnt start turning into more hate until recently when his 2019 season was more of the same disappointment despite being his 3rd year. Some of you need to learn how to separate honest criticisms with hate. KB and Zay earned ever single criticism they got on the field...Beast Mode earned it off the field...Byrd and Gilmore were not really hated here and was more about debating their value with their FA contracts coming up. Gilmore did get a lot more hate because he signed with the Pats, but that was after he left Buffalo.

Niners I think have to be seen as a legit contender, they really have done a nice job rebuilding that defense. I still think here are some questions about the pass offense come playoff time if they have to face one of those NFC stout defenses. That being said, they have still looked great so far and we will find out just how strong they are when they play the Rams this week and also face the Saints, Packers, Seahawks and Rams again too later this season.

Are you saying Zay was really good with his hands in college? If so, then I would agree with you. But I dont know anyone can really say his hands have been a good skill of his in the NFL. Maybe his shaky hands have resulted from mental struggles or confidence issues and he can shake some of that off with a change of scenery. But I think his hands were his biggest issue in his time here...bobbled too many of the passes he did catch, dropped too many passes, and just had such a limited catch radius with little ability to make tougher catches and contested catches.

Half the NFL is made up of UDFA and late round picks. In fact, nearly 30% is made up of UDFA players alone. Going into his senior season, Duke was considered the top NFL WR prospect before off field stuff would get him kicked off the team. Had he come out after us junior year he was expected to have been a first or second round pick that year. Doesn't matter how you get to the NFL, once you’re here your path to get here or draft status is 100% irrelevant. So puzzling you want to dismiss all our receivers for being UDFA players. Especially since our worst WR was our highest drafted one in Zay. And last year our worst WR was a former first round pick. Draft position is irrelevant, it’s what you do on the field. That being said, I’m sure Beane is still going to add to the WR room either via trade for one of the rumored guys available or this offseason. Point is, all the guys on our team have been offering more than Zay was, so this was the right move for this team right now Huh? We signed a gazillion offensive players this offseason and also drafted 3 offensive players in the first 4 rounds. Not to mention in Beane’s first draft he did everything he needed to do to draft the QB he coveted. So I am puzzled you think this. I do think this is a bit of being negative. It over looks all the things they have done to try and help Josh this year develop and have the tools to succeed. And we are 4-1 and should be 5-0 Not worried about this. And if he does, good for him, but it doesn’t matter, because he wasn’t productive here and wasn’t getting any better here. Sometimes a change of scenery can help a player, and if it does, then great for Zay.

Read my OP instead of the thread title...

Thanks bud Cheers

Here is what we know: Beane is pretty good at drafting and is also a trade wizard. So tough call...I dont think the Bills should go all in for anyone unless they believe they are the missing player to get us over the top. This regime has proven they are good with those draft picks, so would be foolish to say over pay for anyone right now. That being said, Beane is also a trade wizard, so if he does make a trade I have faith he won't over pay and will get a good deal.

Agreed and I started this thread before free agency and before we signed Brown and Cole because his first 2 seasons were just like you said.

True, good point. But if they keep playing like this they may not be after too much longer.

On draft night, my QB board was in this order: Baker Allen Darnold Lamar Rosen (actually liked Mason better, but this is based on the consensus top 5 that were expected to go first). So I was not surprised at all when Baker had a strong rookie year. I also knew he wasn't a finished product yet and this season was no lock to be as great as some expected. However, I am surprised his play has fallen off this much. He's really not playing well right now despite having a lot of weapons around him. I wonder how much of it is the new coaching staff. Not trying to make excuses for him, he's really taken a step back out there IMO and he gets to own what he is doing poorly. But it makes you wonder how safe the new staff is given how disappointing the offense has been despite adding more talent like OBJ. There is a reason people say NFL stands for Not For Long. This team was expected to compete for a division title and SB this year...if they keep looking like this, wonder if the next coaching changes could be coming in Cle.

Thanks bud

Yup