Alphadawg7

First of all, great write up for your thread here and thank you. Pertaining to this play, I am surprised it took other angles to see this because this was clear as day live in the game to me and on the replays, it was a terrible throw from the get go. Sure, Hollins technically could have adjusted better, but that adjustment is way harder than people think and there was never any reason to make that throw so hard in the first place, he was wide open. And not only did he throw it to his outside shoulder he also threw it about as far as he could with it still having a possibility to be caught and with way too much air on the ball creating a steeper angle for the ball to come down. Mack is Mack, he isn’t going to confuse anyone for Justin Jefferson by any means…but on this one play, this catch is substantially more difficult than people have been saying. I don’t know how many people have played WR, but I can assure everyone that the higher the arc on an over the shoulder catch, the harder the ball is to track and catch. And it gets even harder when it’s over the wrong outside shoulder, especially having to change your route. People don’t realize just how much further you have to turn your head back and up, not to mention hold it longer to track. And then to have to change your route on the bad pass and instead do that on your outside shoulder and it’s going to slow down most, if not all, WRs trying to track the ball as you are contorting your body so much. All anyone has to do is go outside and run looking over their left shoulder like a normal post pass is coming. Now do the same and look way back in the sky and higher to track a ball and adjust your route to the outside shoulder. Guarantee it impacts your running as you try and adjust. And that’s without wearing pads and a helmet. Everyone says any other WR makes this catch, but that’s just not true. Allen made this as difficult of a catch as he could by putting it in a place that was going to be an outstretched catch on the wrong outside shoulder of a player originally running a post. This is NOT a defense of Mack as a receiver, this is just the facts of this single play. Yes, there are WRs who can make that play, but most don’t and it’s a low percentage catch and inexcusable considering how wide open Mack was. I mean Allen threw a bullet earlier to Kincaid down the sideline that had no air that made the ball uncatchable but had he put some loft it’s catchable. This play he floats a pass too far and to the wrong spot where a simple throw and catch was all he had to do. There was zero reason for that much air let alone going to the wrong spot. IMHO the failure of this play is 85% on Allen if not more. He also had Mack wide open on another post for a possible TD later in this drive and totally didn’t see him and locked on to Coleman and the ball out of end zone. Allen had two TDs on that drive he blew in what was the worst half I’ve ever seen from him. Disclaimer: None of this means Mack is a good downfield WR or a defense of his abilities as a WR. It’s just about what happened on this specific play and the reality of really how hard that throw is to track, adjust, and catch.

Yet it was in line with all his bad decisions and poor play the entire game prior to that too.

There is my boy Polk...I was hyping him up ahead of the draft and people said he couldn't separate either.

Don’t know if this true…but this would be interesting if so.

Adams is the superior player though. Cooper is a guy who throughout his career has a couple monster games that really help his season totals where he puts up a quarter of his production in those couple of games and then disappears for a lot of other games. He also drops more passes than people think. And in a lot of ways, his seasons are similar to how Gabe Davis seasons used to go...too many bad drops, a couple big games, and a lot of meh and disappearing other weeks. Don't get me wrong, Cooper is obviously a better player than Davis, but the inconsistency is similarly frustrating with Cooper. That being said, Cooper still upgrades this team for sure, so if we are going to add someone and miss out on Adams, he is an obvious option. But Adams would be the more impactful player IMHO who is still a top 5 WR. Adams is also IMHO a lot more competitive and plays with more intensity and fire.

We could use some more depth at LB, but him getting cut by an unimpressive defense makes me wonder just how bad was he playing or if there was another issue all together.

Both McD and Brady individually took the blame to be fair. And you can hear Brady essentially admit he has to be better at taking those options away from Allen more.

If anyone goes back and watches the replays and then also listens to the interviews of both McD and Brady since the game...well I think you can fill in the blanks. Admittedly my initial live reaction was all about McD. But to be honest, I think its clear as day this was on none other than Josh Allen. Let me elaborate: On 2nd down deep shot to Hollins, Allen MUST get positive yards on this play and has 2 and really 3 options short all open at various times. Hollins appears to be running a clear out and even seems to be surprised the ball is even coming his way. Looks to me Coleman was the primary read with Hollins clearing out that side and Allen has him on the break on the comeback. BUT - Brady said in his interview that "Allen thought he saw something with Hollins" which is very telling that it was Allens decision to break script and take the shot based on that and how Brady continued to talk about it. Pressed to throw Allen under the bus he declined to comment and keep it in house, but he also said that he needs to do a better job there as an OC on what options are out there essentially. As in don't give Allen the temptation is how it came across to me by having a deep clear out option. Furthermore, McD blew up on the side line right after that pass, he was pissed. This was not a McD call and Allen blew a critical moment in the game with that decision. Instead of either getting the ball in play where someone like Coleman or Kincaid could make the catch for 5+ yards and possibly make a guy miss or break a tackle and just get the first down, we faced 3rd and 10 with Allen having to risk the game again droppig back into the endzone where a sack loses the game. And furthermore, not getting any yards on 3rd down puts us in a bad position punting for our own endzone and gives them the ball back with 3 timeouts and very close to FG position for a team with a kicker with a huge leg. As I said since the game, this was Allens worst game I have seen since his rookie season. And while I was all over McD initially, and he did take responsibility as he should as a HC, I do not think for a second it was McD or Brady that wanted those shots and Allen being Allen thought he saw someting and broke script. One final note on why I think it was Allen...there was no value in taking the shot from the coaches perspective. 32 seconds with no timeouts needing nearly 60 yards to get a good FG try, throwing over the middle and not to a sideline accomplishes nothing when you have no timeouts. So much time would come off the clock and you would still be a long ways away from FG range now with very little time left. Its such an unrealistic option and Brady called every player short except for one in Mack and wasn't even a route where he could get out of bounds if he made the catch. This IMHO this is pretty clear that it was all on Allen. And I love Allen, so it pains me to say that. But Allen had a really bad game overall.

Last time we faced them we blew them out in what was our first game against them without Dorsey - who sucked against them the previous 3 times going 1-2 in those 3 games and avg 17 ppg. I get that, but a motivated Rodgers who is delighted by this firing can still be dangerous. Also, Vikings and Broncos defenses have been playing lights out and are amongst the best in the NFL right now. And you do realize the Jets D is also great and we have only scored a measley 3 TD's in the last 2 weeks ourselves right?

I think the Jets do look like that, especially on the offense. Hackett is hot garbage, but lets not pretend Rodgers has zero juice left either. He isn't the same guy, but no one is happier today than Rodgers, and an amped up Rodgers can be dangerous still in a game like this that is pretty vital for the Jets to get back into the divisional race. They lose, and they are really behind the 8 ball to even make the playoffs...they win, and they lead the AFCE for the first time this season. I hate Rodgers as much as anyone...I think he isn't the same guy...but I am also not going to say he isn't capable of coming out hot this game with more pep in his step with the guy he hated gone.

I am 1000000% for player safety. But...I have some issues here: Hitting your head does not guarantee a concussion. Allen did not seem to have any lingering affects at any point as he walked off the field to when he came back into the game or through his play. Not even in the post game interview either. Allen can be heard talking about his chest like he more got the wind knocked out of him. Granted, he could be just saying that trying to stay in the game, but that is why he goes to the tent to be checked by an independent 3rd party head trauma specialist. He was cleared to go back in by that independent specialist, which ever since Tua's issues in 2022 it is VERY difficult to get cleared now where even the slightest suspicion and they will error on the side of caution and not let them back in. So I am not sure what someone watching from a TV thinks they know more about than the 3rd party impartial specialist who directly examined him and cleared him to return when they are incredibly strict now since the Tua issues in 2022.

The worst part about this is that a coaching change can really bring out the best in a team that first game out. Chargers gave us a scare last year in their first game after they fired their HC, Raiders responded last year too. Its quite common actually, so this IMO makes the Jets more dangerous on Monday night where we are coming off two lame duck and embarrassing performances as well. Jets game IMHO just got a bit more concerning as we really need to right the ship and win this game.

There are some people on X saying he is coming to the Bills, but I trust them as much as I trust Nathan Peterman to win an NFL MVP and not even going to bother posting the tweets. Personally, it still feels like it's going to be the Jets even with the HC change. The one takeaway though for me is that if the Bills were legitimately interested in getting Adams but he still lands with the Jets, then you would think that would make us players for someone else like say Cooper as well.

Outside Ravens game where the entire team stunk...the defense has played pretty great, so not sure what he is supposed to turn around.

Generally good teams don't fire their coach midseason. So that is probably why it hasn't happened before (although I havent checked if it even has).

At this point go get him. AFC is all over the place, the defense can hold its own. If the D can keep playing like it has 4 of the 5 weeks (and it’s getting healthier) then the maybe an all in move like Adams can move the needle. After Ravens game I wasn’t sure, the D and the whole team was flat and a train wreck. But D bounced back and offense and Allen regressed. Adam’s and Shakir would be a great duo and Coleman couldn’t have a better WR to learn from as Adams isn’t really faster than Coleman and is the kind of player Coleman aspires to be. So should help the kids development. Im officially back in on Adams as I wanted him bad the last 2 years, but then wasn’t keen on him this year with him being older and wasn’t sure he fit what the offense was doing first 3 weeks. But after the past 2 weeks the offense showed it could use him and D showed me this week it can be good enough if the offense can be better. Still skeptical it will be us, but I’m now hoping it is us again.

Not if Coleman is the first read like it should have been with Hollins running a clear out, which based on how Hollins ran the play and how Brady talked about the play, it seems pretty obvious Hollins was running a clear out and wasn’t supposed to get the target. So the ball to Coleman should be leaving Allen’s hands the moment Coleman starts to comeback, if he does Coleman has the ball caught before the defender gets to Coleman and he has a shot at making him miss or breaking the tackle as he was alone to make the play on Coleman as Hollins cleared the others out. Brady said in his interview, “Allen thought he saw something with Hollins”. And if you listen to Brady’s interview in full it was pretty clear Hollins was not where anyone expected the ball to go. Easy did his best not to throw Allen under the bus, but it was pretty clear IMHO that Allen was the one who chose to take a shot instead of what everyone else was expecting. And I’m sure it’s why McD was livid on the sideline.

He is averaging just over 2 catches a game as a full time starter the whole season with Mahomes and Andy Reid. Let’s relax before we get him his gold jacket.

Let’s be very clear what I said about Mack before you say things that I “believed in that scrub”. I stated all offseason and all season long…he’s at best a 5th or 6th target. I said his value was in blocking more than anything. I then gave his credit for how well he was affecting the game the first 3 weeks as just that, a blocker. Let’s not pretend I claimed he was or should be a starting WR. I said he would have a role on the team, and I disputed he would be a starter. So please don’t start trying to twist my words, it’s well documented all over this forum. And I didn’t say Mac wasn’t bad or had a good game…I said Allen was worse, and it’s not close as Allen touches the ball every play and had maybe his worst half football in his entire career and also helped seal our fate on the final series with awful decisions that were pretty clearly his. Go listen to Brady’s interview today, it was clear as day it was on Allen and said Allen thought he saw something and took those deep shots. But as much as the interviewer pressed him to throw Allen under the bus Brady declined to comment further.

Then why was he playing so bad the whole game before that play where he left the game shortly to get examined?

Funny, I drafted him thinking he will produce more with Wilson who was at least more likely to feed him more passes than Fields. But yeah, he was drafted as a WR3...in 2 leagues I have JJ and St. Brown as my top WR. But he has been pretty useless so far. I benched him after week 2 until I see a breakout game.

I am good using a late pick and hope McD and this staff along with Allen can get through to him. I just don't want to use anything of real value on him because he really is a major baby and slacker right now.

Hahaha One - first year in decades I didn't really prep for my drafts. Two - I thought he had good value where I was getting him even though I hated taking him each time lol. Three - This was my worst year of drafting I have ever done. In 3 leagues I have Allen in 2 and Mahomes in another - And both suck.