Alphadawg7

Except you are wrong. The returner signaled NO RETURN prior to giving the ball up. He established there would be NO RUN BACK via signal and gestured to the ref to give him the ball. There were no players within the immediate vicinity of him. The refs have the ability to make the determination if the player had chosen to give themself up, which they clearly did and was accurate. Refs have the ability to rule that a player has chosen to give themselves up versus being touched down by contact. It was absolutely the correct call to remove the TD. Its not the first time this season a player was ruled to have "given himself up" either. Except the fact refs have the ability to make that determination, and like many rules, its often a judgement call. Here is what you and others are missing...refs are allowed to make a judgement call on whether a runner has given himself up. He signaled no return and tried to hand the ball to the ref. Pretty clear as day that he gave himself up, and refs concurred. Case closed.

You are the one saying the ref initially called it one way. As if that false logic is to somehow prove the validity of your point and play. I pointed out Refs call things wrong initially all the time, hence when they pick up flags. You want to ignore the possibility, well fact, that the ref initially called it wrong. And even in the title of your tweet it says the receiver gave the sign indicating no intention of returning the ball. He then proceeded to try and hand the ball to the ref. Seriously, what is there to even argue? He CLEARLY without question gave himself up, and the refs can make that determination and have before too.

The one big name I am skeptical Beane will pursue is Cooper. His season stats always look good, but his consistency has always been poor. Handful of big games always skew his totals to look pretty good, but if you look week to week he is very up and down. John Brown for instance was pretty consistent most the season, and had the longest streak of at least 50 yards per game in the NFL. But Cooper might get you 180 yards one week and come back with 18 yards the next. He is still young though, so who knows. But he is going to command big money, and not sure Beane is going to want to sign him to the money he will be seeking with such a rich draft at WR and Coopers inconsistency and drops issues.

What are you talking about. I gave a reason, same reason refs gave. Player was determined to have given himself up, they can do that. It was CLEAR AS DAY the player gave himself up on the play, even tried to hand the ball to the ref. There is nothing left to discuss or explain. You just want to refuse to accept that, and thats on you. I am not the one who needs to further explain that, you want to claim it should be a TD (yet at the same time above basically acknowledge its not). Sorry, it wasn't a TD, nor should have it been.

What about refs who throw flags that get picked up? Refs are human and thats why there are multiple refs on the field and they discuss to get the call right. Refs mistakenly throw flags all the time, and they also mistakenly dont throw flags when they should. You want to complain about a ref mistake, then complain about the delay of game that wasn't called on the 3rd and 18 play or the phantom call on Ford in OT.

Here is a simpler way too look at it: How many seasons have Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees played combined? And how many SB appearances did they make and how many did they win? Both had elite weapons most their careers to throw to as well. These guys have been seen to be amongst the best and best ever to play and would be in most peoples top 10 all time. 34 seasons, only 2 SB appearances total (both wins).

Google NCAA vs NFL and guess what, PRECISELY different leagues with DIFFERENT rules. And guess what, not a TD. Imagine that, NFL refs ruling using NFL rules. What other non NFL rule leagues do you want me to google next? Pop Warner clips? XFL Clips? CFL Clips? How about the Lingerie League clips?

Yet it was over turned. Who cares how long they talked about it, it was not a TD. Its not even on the list of why we lost this game. Should not have been a TD, will never be called a TD. A player can be determined to have given himself up, and its not the first time thats been a ruling before. There are about 100 other reasons and plays of why we lost Saturday, this isn't one of them. I said it the moment they showed the replay the first time so I can see what happened...no way this TD stands.

Yeah, I would be shocked if they did. Only reason would be to go into rebuild mode and try and get more assets to rebuild. But there is no reason for that team to do that. They are a pretty good roster outside the QB issues. Big Ben probably coming back for another run too, so I dont see him being traded. I was just responding to someones tweet they shared suggesting they trade JuJu.

You may believe that, but I would bet anything that would not be the case.

He gave himself up. Play was over. 0% chance you or any other person on this board would agree it would be a TD had a Bills player did that. All of you would be yelling he gave himself up. Anyone claiming otherwise is lying.

Did it remain a TD? No, so apparently it was clear to them. There is literally nothing to discuss here.

Yeah I agree. I wont be surprised to see them go after AJ Green on like a 2 or 3 year deal and then still draft a WR in the first to groom behind Green and Brown. To be honest, I kind of think that is what may happen.

WOW lmao...16 pages on a topic thats a non-topic? Come on, no one can really be arguing that we should have been given the TD there right? I mean its clear he gave himself up, whining about its just being poor sports about the loss. ONE MILLION PERCENT no one would be claiming that was a TD had a Bills player been the one receiving and did that. Anyone who claims they would still see it as a TD for the kicking team had the Bills been receiving that kick and that happened is lying.

Im not surprised. He doesn't strike me as a future great HC in the waiting personally. McD gets a lot of credit for the defense too, and should. And like someone already said, the en vogue thing to do is focus on offensive minded HC's right now. But honestly, I think its a mistake. Look around the league, the best HC's in football are mostly guys who came from defensive backgrounds and known for being great defensive minds. And if you look at the Super Bowl wining HC's its apparent that coaches with Defensive minds have dominated the so called "offensive era". 2019 - Pats: Defensive HC (BB is best defensive mind to ever coach) 2018 - Eagles: Offensive HC 2017 - Pats: Defensive HC 2016 - Broncos: Offensive HC, but won with a prolific defense and a below average offense 2015 - Pats: Defensive HC 2014 - Seahawks: Defensive HC 2013 - Ravesn: Defensive HC 2012 - Coughlin: Offensive HC, but won with a prolific defensive and a below average offense 2011 - Packers: Offensive HC 2010 - Saints: Offensie HC So lets recap the last decade. 6 out of the ten SB's were won by teams coached by guys with a defensive background. Of the 4 won by offensive minded head coaches though, 2 were a direct result of a menacing defense. This is why I think its funny when people tell me its "all offense" and that you cant win with a defense or defensive minded head coach. Its just not factually true, and its actually been the opposite. And looking around the NFL first weekend, defense was the story of the first weekend of the playoffs. But every time someone like a McVay comes in and has early success, everyone looks to copy it. Yet McVay still hasn't won anything, had his innovative offense crushed in his lone Super Bowl and now that the league has caught up with him more, seen his offensive success become inconsistent and he didn't even make the playoffs this year. Look at Sean Payton...there was a time everyone was looking for their own Sean Payton. Yes he got a Super Bowl ring, but that was also the only year he had a good defense really. Most years he has flat out missed the playoffs (with a healthy Brees every year) or been upset in the playoffs like he was this year. And its always on some defensive miscue or gaff too. Come playoff time, defense matters. Which is why I think McD is going to have along and successful career as a HC. But like I said, Frazier to me doesn't stand out as a strong candidate, however, I would still prefer to interview him over Daboll if was a team owner.

Thats how I feel too, especially since we could say sign AJ Green and not give up any picks and still use that first round pick on a stud WR prospect to groom for the future behind Brown and AJ Green. Personally, I think if JuJu was to get traded it would likely be a 2nd at best, maybe even a 3rd that he gets traded for. His stock is down IMO right now compared to after last year.

Had we drafted DK, we would have been home on a bye week after winning 12 games and the division. So yeah, would have prevented that But yes, I do agree that Daboll was a big issue Saturday. I can cite a lot of terrible calls. I was getting texts from people who don't normally watch the Bills saying we had the worst play caller in the NFL. The draw attempt to Gore at end of half was probably one of the dumbest calls I have ever seen.

I will never understand why he stopped using Singletary who was having a great game.

I wouldn't hate this...BUT: Did anyone come away this year thinking JuJu is a true #1 WR? Lets not forget he looked great when AB was drawing double coverage every game, but as a #1 he didn't prove he could hang. I know there were challenges between the injury and QB situation, but at this point he is still unproven as a legit #1 because of that and when he wasn't hurt he didnt really have a lot of success. And if Pitt was willing to trade him after losing AB, wouldn't that further raise question marks about their belief in him as a #1 WR?

Like I said before, Daboll can be great (Josh Allen receiving TD) one minute and utterly a moron the next (Gore draw at end of half before Duke TD attempt). I wont hate it if he is back in Buffalo next year (hopefully having learned some tough lessons of being a dumb a** at times), but I also do kind of hope he gets a HC job so we can find a new OC. 2 things I cant stand about Daboll: His stubborn stupidity (obsession with running Gore on first and second down over and over again) and running one of the most complicated and challenging offenses on a team with 9 new offensive starters, rotating RT's, and a young QB with mediocre at best group of receiving weapons to throw to. Brown and Cole are good, especially Brown. But everyone else was mostly useless or mistake prone. I love Knox's potential still, but he had a lot of drops and his whiffed block on the Allen run Saturday may have lost us the game. I want an OC who will focus on building an offense around the players on the team. Daboll seemed to force his scheme too often rather than focusing on best utilizing the players talents and putting them in the best positions to succeed. Felt like he spent a large part of the game setting some specific play to use later in the game rather than just getting Josh and the offense into a rhythm. Personally, I think Daboll was too focused on trying to be seen as a "genius" or "innovator" and that caused him at times to not call a smart football game. And there were times he pulled it off, but too often it bit him in the backside and cost us drives or points IMO.

I think he is who would get mocked to us right now in most drafts. I fear his combine will move him up the board out of our reach a bit. He is the kind of guy who will likely blow some minds at the combine IMO. The only thing working in our favor is there are a few guys that could leave the combine having GM's drool, so hopefully one of them or Shenault can last to our pick. NOTE: I still think that WR is such a priority that I can see Beane making a move up to get one. Not into the top 10 that would cost a ton, but using some of our extra draft capital to maybe get up into that 15-20 range to make sure we get our guy, ESPECIALLY if there is say only one left on the board they covet.

Geezus. I want to reply, but it would take too long. This post is one of the worst I have read in a while.

Yeah its utterly stupid for anyone to want to give up on him. The kid has been one of the best late game QB's in the NFL since entering the league in terms of comeback wins and then this year 4th quarter passer rating. Some things to take away from this year: Second most TD's in team history Second most TD's in the NFL this year from weeks 5 through 17 behind only Lamar with a 21-3 TD:Turnover ratio during that span Led the league in third and long conversions In the top 5 in NFL history for most rushing yards for a QB in first 2 seasons despite MISSING all or parts of 6 games 2nd most rushing TD's by a QB in NFL history over first 2 seasons 13-7 in the regular season games he started and finished since coming back from injury last season Bills were top 10 red zone team this year going into final week where he barely played Now take into account the following: Bills led the NFL in dropped passes Missed all or parts of 6 games Had 9 new players on offense For bulk of season his top 3 WR's averaged 5'10" in height and about 185 lbs Saddled with worthless WR starters for parts of season in Zay and Foster Had a rotating RT situation, one of which (Ford) struggled a lot of with consistency Is a young learning QB playing in what the other vets called the most challenging and complicated offensive scheme they have ever seen from Daboll Bonus Point: Daboll was a bi-polar OC this year being brilliant one minute and a complete moron the next (example: Josh Allen TD catch vs the unbelievably stupid Gore draw at end of half before the TD attempt to Duke) Anyone entering the offseason down on Allen is just ridiculous. He is not a finished product by any means, but the kid is CLEARLY ascending, CLEARLY a leader, CLEARLY poised, CLEARLY full of promise and potential. Get the kid some receiving weapons and a permanent RT not named Cody Ford (move him to guard full time and he will be fine IMO).

If DK is in that exact same position, its still a difficult catch. However, if you are saying with DK's speed and size advantage combined he would have gotten there in a better position, then yes, I do fully agree.

Here is where I say I told you so. I was championing DK Metcalf long before his combine. I kept telling everyone he was the one true legit #1 WR in the draft. Funny how much people argued with me about him who actually knew nothing really about him. All they said was "3 cone" over and over or that he was too big. One guy swore he would be popped for steroids and it was impossible to be that fit without them lmao. Here are the WR's I was targeting going into the draft when everyone kept telling it was a bad draft for WR's even though I kept saying it was quite good. Metcalf Harry AJ Brown Deebo McLaurin Campbell Most turned out to be pretty darn good rookies (one got hurt). I also said Zay sucks and would get traded (and they did try and trade him before the season started). I also said keep an eye out for David Sills V if the Bills don't draft a WR early. I also said don't sleep on Duke, he had a shot to make the team and could push to start (which he eventually did, including the playoffs). Hmmmm...maybe I know a little something about WR's...someone call Beane and have them bring me in on a consultants deal to help fix the WR position this year ? NOTE: I dont fault Beane for not drafting a WR though last year, we had a lot of holes to fill and I had no issues with any of his picks on draft night. I personally would have taken DK instead of Ford, but at the time of the draft I also got the Ford pick and was fine with building up our trenches.