Alphadawg7

I get the concern, but I actually think our roster is better suited for redzone play this year over last year. Obviously its all just a guess right now...but here is why I feel that way. Keon is going to bring redzone value, Kincaid is now in year 2 and we still have Knox giving us a lot of athletic size. Shakir and Samuel are threats out of the slot who can run crisp routes and make the catch, especially Shakir. And gone are the over the hill compliments to Cook where we have Davis who is a tough runner who accelerates through the hole. Plus Brady finally brought movement with a purpose to the offense after Dorsey was fired. Then there is still the guy with the most TD's the past 4 seasons who is a redzone beast in Allen. So for me, the redzone is where I feel more comfortable with this squad. Beane even discussed how he was thinking about the redzone when constructing this group. Personally, my bigger question marks will be the longer parts of the field and will they consistently be able to attack all 3 levels to avoid defenses clamping down on them.

Fixed that for you In reality, no one with any longevity bats .500 either. The great Bill Walsh traded up a bounty for JJ Stokes and called him the next Jerry Rice. Also said Jim Druckenmiller reminded him of Joe Montana. Yeah...none of these guys are batting .500 but it's the quality of the ones they get right that make or break a GM.

And FWIW, BB has fawned over Josh and only stated how elite he is essentially when he has made any public comments about him.

The LOS doesn't jive either...Allen I believe was the least sacked QB last year...not because we have the most dominant line in the NFL, but because Allen is elite at identifying where the pressure is coming from and escaping it and exploiting it. So he can't be that "underdeveloped at the line" lol. I think that is a lazy take because it is assumed due to the turnovers.

Circling back to my original point...Gabe had some early success as a rookie who wasn't expected to play as much but did due to John Browns injury. And while there is no denying having a Diggs on the field is a benefit, he still has to run his routes, beat his man, catch the ball, etc. So if Keon is better prospect and ahead of Gabe in a number of areas coming out of college, wouldn't you think it is plausible that Keon could have similar success to Davis rookie year and even surpass that given the expected bigger role Keon will have compared to Davis as well? And no doubt Diggs on the field is a bonus, but it is also over exaggerated a lot by many around here. Having Diggs on the field doesn't make a bad WR opposite of him suddenly good. It has advantages sure, but the WR still has to execute and do his job. And while Keon won't have Diggs, he also isn't automatically dead in the water because he doesn't and still has guys on the field the defense has to respect to make plays from Kincaid, Shakir, Samuel, to the RB's and Allen running himself. IMHO they don't need Keon to be a 1,200 yard guy or something year 1...but if he can manage 700-900 yards and get 8+ TD's it will really help this offense this year have a shot at still being one of the premiere offenses in the league. And I personally don't find that to be an unreasonable expectation of his rookie year when Josh Allen is his QB, but I am also one who is optimistic about Keon which I get you are less optimistic on him.

I am surprised I had not heard about this from a few days ago and I don't see it on the main page, so not sure if its been shared here. To call him not only overrated, but one of the MORE overrated players in the NFL goes beyond stupid. https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2024/7/15/24199160/nfl-exec-considers-bills-qb-josh-allen-overrated-despite-espn-top-3-rank “One of the more overrated players in the NFL,” a veteran NFL executive said. “Immense talent but he makes a lot of mistakes. He’s underdeveloped at winning at the line of scrimmage, tends to lock on to targets, more of a thrower than precision passer, forces throws into traffic.” You want to have some critiques...fair, all players have things they can improve. But the overrated nonsense is comically stupid...which is why they were too much of a wuss to put their name on it. I love it though...just more fuel for the beast Josh Allen! Almost everyone in sports media came to his defense (except Nick Wright who I wont even bother to post here). Here are just a few of those clips where they talked about what an absurd statement this is:

Read my post a couple posts up...he is gaslighting you...he is BS'ing you and using a false context of my quote that was clearly pointed out to him more than 5 times. And my original comment was in reference to one of your posts, which you can see I quoted in that post above too. Haha...that was money. Nicely done

LMAO Cut the BS dude...The balls on you to accuse me and call “bulls**t” while you are in fact lying. Ok then, can’t believe I actually have to even do this.…but let’s go to the receipts lol You just flat out lied...yet again. Not only is that NOT my original comment that you first replied to...but its not even the full comment of the post you took it from. Why, because if you quoted the full post it would expose you are lying. But don't worry...I got you covered More comically you are trying to use this same lie in other posts in attempts to gaslight other posters too lmao. So...let me help you by sharing the ACTUAL post you responded to ORIGINALLY and the posts that followed where it was VERY clear what we were discussing EVERY time. This is my ORIGINAL post below that STARTED our conversation. Since you struggle with facts and truth…I will make them easier to read with bold and larger font 👍 SPOILER ALERT: What does it say? Hmmmm....TOP 3 RECEIVERS (weird no TE's or non-starters). PAST 4 or 5 YEARS (weird no Josh Allen rookie year where he didn't play a full season...and was well a rookie and nowhere near the player he is now). CAREER HIGH (weird doesn't say new career high every single year). As if I am not already at Mic Drop levels...let’s keep going cuz this is for the people! 😂 👇Here is the ACTUAL FULL POST that you CHERRY PICKED a GENERALIZED ending quote from (in RED below) where you didn't quote the WHOLE post because it VERY CLEARLY states PRIOR to that what we SPECIFICALLY have been discussing since the BEGINNING. 🤯 Oh that pesky truth right? LOL But let’s keep it going...because you were REPEATEDLY told even after this every time you desperately tried to misrepresent what my statements originally were. So you can't even claim ignorance, you were told over and over... POST NUMBER 3: AND YET AGAIN... Sadly, there were even more examples still…But hey, no need to post them all. I still have the rest of your nonsense to address below... Getting back to the rest of your nonsense comments...👇 No you didn't. You gave me a post of gibberish that was wrong, inaccurate, and not on topic. Hahaha oh boy...ok, you keep writing them, so lets take them one by one: Clay - Played with Allen his rookie year when Allen didn't play a full season...so not from "the last 4 or 5 years"...nor is he a WR. Benjamin - Played during Allens rookie year only when Allen didn't play a full season....so also not from "the last 4 or 5 years". Foster - This is the dumbest one...HE LITERALLY HAD HIS CAREER HIGH WITH ALLEN. And the year 2 you want to talk about...FOSTER DIDN'T PLAY, he was in the coaches doghouse...something ALREADY told to you too. And again, it doesnt matter he already set a CAREER HIGH with JOSH ALLEN. Davis - He has ONLY played with Josh Allen...therefore his CAREER HIGH is with ALLEN. And I know you don't like him, so I seriously doubt you believe he will beat his career highs in Jax...doesn't matter though, because still his CAREER HIGH is currently with...wait for it...JOSH ALLEN. Knox - SEE DAVIS ABOVE. Also NOT A WR. But lets talk about him anyway...15 TD's and over 1100 yards over 2021 and 2022...CAREER best seasons and does anyone expect he will put up 9 TD's again? Doubt it. Doesn't matter though...CAREER HIGH is STILL currently with...wait for it...JOSH ALLEN. McKenzie - LITERALLY put up his CAREER HIGH SEASON with JOSH ALLEN. Brown - LITERALLY put up his CAREER HIGH SEASON with JOSH ALLEN. Beasley - LITERALLY put up his CAREER HIGH SEASON with JOSH ALLEN. Sanders - HURT and I literally said other than Crowder and Sanders who had injuries from the early outset. Sherfield - NOT A STARTER, didn't play much...and we were discussing...wait for it...STARTERS. Harty - SEE SHERFIELD. Now its time: 🎤🫳

Nope you’re wrong as you don’t seem to even understand what is being discussed. That is NOT the comparison…you either misread it or didn’t take the time to see what we were discussing. What I wrote was about the comparison of Keon coming out of college vs Gabe Davis coming out of College as a 4th round pick. And within my good convo with Gunner, he added some additional comment about something Gabe eventually improved on which I agreed with him on. 👇👇This is the original question by me👇👇 It was a direct comparison of Keon and Gabe as rookies.

Haha, come on, that is not even remotely close to what I said 😂. But hey, no surprise you are trying to change it so you can try and spin away from this silly narrative you are on. I even gave you the benefit of the doubt on Clay...but turns out he too only played in Allen's rookie year where we already established Allen didn't play a full season. So you are back to zero players that failed to reach a career best season starting with Allen when injuries were not in play.

Agreed it was better in years 3 and 4, that is assumed with any player who has any success in the NFL. But...Keep in mind, the comparison is where they each are in respect as rookies, not after Gabe had 3-4 years of NFL coaching vs Keon as a rookie.

I agree with a lot of this, but the area I disagree is about the route running and separation part. IMHO Keon is a little better off the line with more moves and faster feet than Gabe had (and Gabe never really improved there) which IMHO gives an edge over Gabe to get earlier separation, an area Gabe was not strong at. Gabe also ran a limited route tree because he wasn’t a sharp route runner and tended to round his cuts and angles. Keon is more athletic by a lot and his foot work and cuts are cleaner and sharper than Gabe, and that allows Keon to have a wider route tree and cleaner routes IMHO than Gabe had coming out. But I don’t disagree about the rest of your post much, just that I do think Keon has an edge over Gabe coming out on route running and separation earlier in the routes for those reasons.

I said WR’s in the follow-ups when we got into specifics, but ok, going back to that post it’s both. So your lone example of a failure at a career high while playing with Allen is Clay in 6 years? Got it. So many failures lmao compared to all the successes…lol. You’re still wrong

Would you agree coming out of College Keon is a clearly better prospect than Gabe Davis was coming in as a 4th round pick? Davis made a pretty good impact as a rookie despite his limited route tree, mediocre route running, questionable hands, and struggles with getting off the line and separation. All things Keon is better at than Davis. So not sure I wound say the chances are “low” that he can make an impact this season. To be fair, I wouldn’t say they are “high” either, because Keon doesn’t have the benefit Davis had of being opposite Diggs. But he does have a deep group around him that can make plays including a better run game. I just think “low” is a bit harsh when you have Josh Allen at QB and a lot of guys who can make plays like Kincaid, Shakir, Samuel, Cook, etc still on this offense too.

This is quite honestly your worst argument and take since you tried to convince me during last season that Shakir can’t catch. So TE’s play WR now? Lmao. You are so predictable. You always move the goal post or change the comparison…or at least try to…when you’re clearly out of any logical way to counter a point or just factually wrong. You’re not even capable of sticking to the topic. The statement is very clearly was about how the starting WR’s have put up their CAREER high with Allen. Robert Foster did that, but you AGAIN try and spin that by citing he didn’t set a new career high the next season? Lol, you mean the one where he was NOT a starter and wasn’t even active most the season because he was in the coaches dog house? Haha what a meaningless thing to bring up as if that somehow changes that Foster had a career high with Allen. You don’t seem to understand that only furthers my point. And, so funny…I just told you Allen only played 10 1/2 games as a rookie, yet you bring up KB? And I already told you that in the last post lol. Not to mention states that it was true except for when injuries prevented it. And even though Allen only played in 10 1/2 games as a rookie, Foster and Zay had still put up then career highs. Zay did beat it one time since 2 years ago, but again he only played 10 1/2 games with Josh Allen that year, still his 2nd best of his career. You want to bring up Knox (again not a WR) who had 15 TDs the 2 years before Kincaid got here, including 9 in 2021 that resulted in him getting a big contract as a failure? Lol, especially considering how little his target share was as neither Daboll or Dorsey prioritized throwing to the TE. And when Brady did use the TE’s once Kincaid was here, Kincaid put up the 4th most receptions for a rookie TE in NFL history. You really think Knox is gonna have a better 2 year span for any other team if he leaves Buffalo and Allen than his 15 TDs from 2021-2022? Possible, but prob not. Also…he’s a TE, we talking WRs, so irrelevant anyway. You were wrong when you wanted to bring up all his “failures” to do so…just accept that and move on instead of doubling and tripling down on what should have just been a simple mistake. It doesn’t even mean you have to change your negative opinion, just means you misspoke without knowing if it was true. It’s complete fact, not an opinion, that the starting WRs not affected by injuries set career highs with Allen.

The questions illustrate the complete unknown. And the “you make it sound quite perilous” is part of the low ranking because with so much unknown with all the changes there isn’t anything proven to elevate the rankings. Lmao, the failures? Do you mean the 2 guys who got hurt in Crowder and Sanders? I said the 3 starting WR’s. It’s not that it’s not good data, it’s more you don’t seem to know the correct data. 2018 - Shouldn't really even use 2018 as he was a raw rookie who only played 10 1/2 games….but Foster and Zay still had then career highs and gave their careers life. Foster wouldn’t ever play meaningful football again. After that - Every starting WR who didn’t get hurt (Sanders and Crowder) have put up their career best seasons with Allen. There is no logical or rational way to dispute that fact because it’s just that…a statistical fact…not opinion.

Again, you are overlooking the entirety of the unknowns and narrowing it to “lots of teams drafted a rookie WR”. How many of those teams have every WR but 1 as new? How many of those teams have a new OC and new offensive system? How many of those teams have a QB learning his 3rd system in 3 years? How many of those teams are replacing nearly 300 targets in their offense? How many of those teams have their expected top 4 best weapons with 0-2 years experience? Now ask how many of those teams have Josh Allen and who has elevated pretty much every starting WR he has ever played with to career highs? How many of those teams feature a QB with most NFL TDs in history in first 6 years? How many of those teams of those teams have a QB with a NFL record of 40+ TDs for 4 consecutive years and counting? You are just glossing over things to maintain the pessimistic outlook you insist on coating all your views with. Bottom line, not only is expecting the group to rank higher by seasons end not unreasonable based on its low conservative preseason ranks, it’s statistically the most probable outcome based on history of all receivers and weapons that play with Josh Allen. To deny that is to be stubborn to a particular view.

I mean there is quite a few…to name some: Wide right The Comeback Music City Miracle 13 Seconds I mean I think 13 seconds is the one I remember the most often today because it’s so fresh in the mind. But the game that stood out for me the most as my fondest memory has to be the 2021 home opener against the Steelers because it was my first and only game I got to attend in Buffalo. We lost but didn’t change the experience for me. In fact the loss was kind of poetic in a couple ways. One, fitting my first game in Buffalo I get a taste of what the most loyal fans dealt with for 17 years…losing, like an initiation. But also, I had a patch on my Josh Allen jersey that was Steelers colors with a capital B in the middle. It symbolized a dear friend Brian who died from Covid a few months earlier in June who was a die hard Steelers fan. He was as big of a fan of them as I am of the Bills. So felt like he deserved this one and was good with the outcome. I even buried another patch there in Buffalo for him. And overall it was just an amazing trip, my wife fell in love with Buffalo, Niagra, etc. Even as a die hard Niners fan living in CA, she immediately wanted to make the Bills home opener an annual family tradition for us and our kids we had planned on having and now have one at 14 months and number 2 due in October. Getting to meet some of the people here in person like @Augieand tailgate before the game was just awesome too. Best time her and I ever had at a football game.

I will say this, both as a WR group and overall set of weapons for the offense (WR, TE, and RB) I think we are better in these areas this year than last year: Route Running, overall Route Tree, better hands, more cerebral, and overall tougher. What we are not is say "top heavy" with that proven upper tier type player that Diggs was, but we are deeper with guys who can all run good routes or better, can run a more expansive route tree, are more physical, and just play with a higher IQ and awareness on the field. And that is why I am in the optimistic camp of this group because I have confidence that the guys on the field can make the play where I didn't share that confidence with as many of the players last year. And if they can do their job, Allen is going to elevate their games.

Like I mentioned in the other thread, wife and I are watching and loving it now. She is a die hard Niners fan, so extra fun for her with Kittle and Deebo on it. But the overall show production is great like "Quarterback" was which was an excellent show we both loved. My wife fell in love with Kirk Cousins and his family on "Quarterback" and still roots for him now lol. The players and families have all been great and fun as well. We will prob binge the rest between now and Friday lol. Kittle is hilarious and he has an awesome wife. In fact all the spouses or girlfriends are great in this season. Watching what Davante played through for the Raiders gave me an even greater respect for him. Already easily either 1 or 2 on the best in the NFL list of WR's by any measure, the dude is a beast and all about leaving it all out on the field.

Super Bowl

We loved "Quarterback" so we were already hyped for "Receivers", but for obvious reasons, my wife was double amped with Kittle and Deebo on it given shes a die hard Niners fan. My wife really loved Cousins on "Quarterback" and his wife and family and now roots for him unless playing the Niners or Bills lol. And they all have absolutely great families and have been fun to watch. Kittle is hilarious too. All those parents and dad's coming to Davantes daughter bday party not knowing her dad was Davante too was pretty funny lol. We watched the first episode like a few days ago and just had not gotten a chance to comeback to it until last night where we watched the next 2. I have no doubt we will binge the rest over the next couple of days though lol

What @Rocky Landingis saying though is that a BIG part of their rankings are the unknown. Keon is a rookie where people have been split on him and Shakir just put up an insane YPT, Catch %, and led the Bills in receiving over our final 10 games but we have not seen him in a bigger role and without Diggs here. Samuel who is respected, has never played with Allen or any QB that should be starting in the NFL, yet still has been able to be productive. And with ESPN ranking the Bills weapons 24th, that again is again factoring in a lot of the unknown from our youth because we haven't seen them post Diggs (or at all yet in Buffalo like Keon, Davis, and Samuel) to reasonably know what to expect this year from them. Kincaid put up 4th most rec by a rookie TE in NFL history last year to go along with Shakir's and Cook's breakouts. But, all of that happened with a Diggs on the roster, so will they keep ascending in bigger roles with Diggs gone is a question yet to be answered. Brady had a strong start in Buffalo, but now its his offense being installed, one where Allen is also learning a new system. Point is, it is not like they are ranked 24th because the opinion is that Kincaid is not very good...Shakir is not very good...Keon is not very good. They are ranked 24th because those guys who are expected to be the bigger parts of the offense bring potential rather than a proven track record while also having Allen learn now his 3 system in 3 seasons. But lets look at what we do know...pretty much every receiver the past 4 or 5 years that has been one of our top 3 receivers has put up career highs catching passes from Josh Allen, and the ones who didn't were the ones who were hurt like Crowder and Sanders. So, saying it is "not very likely" that the WR Corps would rank higher at the end of the season doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Because the rankings and expectations are set low right now because of the unknown, but the odds are that playing with Allen that they will certainly exceed the low expectations being set preseason. I would happily take the over on a bet about where they finish compared to their current ranking either as a WR Corp or as Weapons overall.

Agreed...but unfortunately sports media is a clown show full of all kinds of stupid takes for click bait and social media is populated predominantly by complete idiots...so this stupid reference gets used more than it should.

No because this was a hype video and nothing gets Allen more fired up, flexing, etc than trucking someone or running by them.