Alphadawg7

We dont have the cap room for this anymore. More pressing upgrades or holes to fill include: LB (Milano or someone else), DT, CB opposite Tre, TE, OL. We dont have the cap room to chase quality signings at DE and not be forced to fill in the other holes with average guys. Again, 6th in the NFL in QB pressures last year. But where do you think we ranked at defending the TE? How about stopping the run? How about the QB rating throwing at a DB not named Tre? How was our TE production? How about our run stopping? I will give you a hint...all considerably lower. Again, not saying that the pass rush couldn't benefit from an upgrade, but DE are not cheap, at least ones that are better than what we have for this next season. Look at how much money Watt got, and he didnt have more sacks than our own guys last year, he only had 5. Not to mention we have a young guy in AJE who we just invested a 2nd round pick into and started showing promise as the season wore on. We cant afford to pay a lot of money to get a couple more sacks a season. People are obsessed with sack totals, yet that is literally just a few plays over an entire season. We got pressure on the QB last year, what we need to do now is stop the run, cover a TE, and cover the receivers not being covered by Tre. Yeah, its a valid concern until anyone sees what kind of shape he is in.

Well we drafted a DE in the 2nd round last year who started earning more playing time and showed progress and potential. And we got dominated by KC not because of lack of pass rush, but because we could not remotely cover Kelce or Hill and were manhandled in the trenches. People dont realize how much the interior DL impacts the ability for DE's to get to the QB. When you dont have to double team in the middle, it allows for more blockers on the edge to negate the pass rush. We were frequently dominated in the middle of our D all year.

Yeah, but what does he have left at his age after missing a year? Thats my concern to be honest. I would rather sign someone where we can rotate the DT's in effectively then just lean on Star at this point.

My bad, you are right it was 2 years in Hou as OC which was 2008, and 2009. Here are some points though I think you are missing: Houston was 3rd in the league on offense the first year Kyle left. They didn't miss a beat without him there. Slaton ran for 1300 yards and caught 50 passes in 2008 with 13 TDs, so not sure why you mock that, we would kill for that kind of production. Granted, he was injured on and off in 2009 and opened the door for Arian Foster to emerge later part of the season, so his stay as production back was short lived. Although it was fun seeing his name again as he won me 2 Fantasy SB's in 2008 haha. So hard to say what kind of impact he had on Houston when he had a good ground game, Andre Johnson and Schaub who was a pretty productive passer in his time in Houston. Then in Washington, there was only one year where the offense was one of the top 5 in the league, and it was RG3 rookie year where he took the league by storm. But Kyle would be fired along with his dad just one season later after they ran RG3 into the ground and mishandled his body and injuries which pretty much RG3 was never able to find that form again. And in Atlanta he too inherited a top 10 offense already and only had one season where the offense ranked noticeably higher than usual when he finished 2nd in the league in yards and they reached the SB. A SB which they had in the bag until his terrible decisions cost them the ability to close the game out and gave the Pats time to mount a crazy comeback. When I say building an offense, I mean taking over a personnel group and turning around the offense. I could walk into KC today and be the OC there and have a top 5 offense because the pieces are in place. It doesn't automatically make me some great coordinator and great HC candidate. So what do we really have...2 years in Houston as an OC with a pretty talented cast on offense where the team didn't miss a beat the year after he left. One great year in 4 in Washington where RG3 took the league by storm before how they handled him ran him into the ground and his career never recovered. A short stop in Atlanta taking over a potent offense with one great season on his resume there that ended in blowing a SB on his play calling decisions. So again, yeah, I have pause with Kyle with or without the SB gaffes. I am not saying he's not a coach on the rise, or even that he is a bad coach. This whole convo started when someone propped him up as top tier coach. You can do a lot worse than Kyle for sure, but I also think it is way premature to say he is a top 10 coach. And our dialogue probably comes across as if I hate Kyle or something, which I honestly don't. I am just making the case that I think its pre-mature to anoint him as a top 10 guy right now. I think 10-14 is a fair spot, where I personally have him 14. I would for instance rather have Flores who I have watched get the most out of his players in his first 2 years in Miami and over achieve with a below average roster. I named him since you had him last on your list. None the less, enjoying the dialogue, cheers bud

Why all this pressure to get a DE? We were 6th in QB pressures and second only to Pitt in speed to getting to the QB last season. WE NEED BEEF. We were often dominated in the trenches and need to beef up the interior DL rotation. We also need a LB if Milano isn’t coming back, especially one who can cover a TE and middle of the field. We have higher priorities than DE. I am not saying we couldn’t benefit from an upgrade to the pass rush, but it’s not our biggest problem on defense and we have a young player who showed promise there that was a 2nd round pick last year. Beef on DL, LB, starting DB opposite Tre, and stopping the run are bigger needs and we have limited space to work with. But all I see on this board is people focusing just on getting a pass rushing DE. If all we do is add a different DE to this D and replace Addison, our defense won’t be any better.

No disrespect, but you are over dramatizing his resume a bit and glamorizing it like leaving out being fired, and having two jobs last one season. For example, Houston he was only the OC one season on a potent offense built by Gary Kubiak. But you just gave Kyle credit for that in your post. In Washington, it was his offensive guru father that was the HC and you just have Kyle all the credit and left out they all got fired after just 3 seasons. He didn’t have any real notable success until 2016 where the Falcons were top rated offense the year they went to the SB, but let’s be real, he walked into a pretty potent offense already. And I’ve said before, I’m not saying he’s not a good offensive mind. Being a offensive guru is not the same thing of being a good HC who has to make game decisions decisions. And on the biggest stage he floundered twice with very controversial choices. And again, no disrespect, enjoying the convos. But putting the blame on the Falcons defense is kind of ridiculous considering the Falcons defense should not have even been on the field. He stupidly kept throwing (incomplete too) and stopping the clock while up huge instead of chewing clock and running the ball when they had a really good ground game too. The only reason Pats had the time to make a comeback is because Falcons kept giving them the ball back quickly in the fourth without taking any time off the clock. It was so absurdly stupid I was screaming at the TV the whole fourth quarter and I’m not even a Falcons fan. His decision making in the Niners SB didn’t do him any favors or even anything to really change the concerns about his decision making either. So yeah, one year in Hou, one year in Cle, three years then fired in Was snd a blown SB in Atlanta were to me a reason to have some pause. And take out the SB collapse and not a lot changes for me. He has plenty of time to cement himself as a great HC, but for me, I remain skeptical or cautious on anointing him as a great HC. You said 6-7 guys max you would take over him. Off the top of my head, I am at about double that of guys I’d hire as HC before I would take Kyle. I’ve got Kyle right about 14th, although admittedly a couple are close calls like him and McVay for example. So I’d say a ranking of 10th to 14th is a fair range for him. In no particular order: McD, Reid, Belichick, Carrol, Harbaugh, Flores, LaFleur, Payton, Vrabel, Reich, Arians, Tomlin and McVay.

All fair and good points, and yes I would agree Kyle is ahead of Kingsbury. As far as Texas Tech goes...how many years did the Saints not make the playoffs with one of the greatest QB's in history? It takes more than a QB, and Texas Tech isn't exactly a powerhouse school and the overall rosters were not very good outside Mahomes. If he was the HC at a major recruitment school and had Mahomes, then fine, I would say his college record is concerning. I am no Klingsbury fan, don't really have much of an opinion on him at all to be honest. I just think some people (not you, but others) have been overly harsh on him because he didn't win more at Texas Tech and I just don't see that as very significant reason to write him off. But I am still also skeptical of Kyle Shannahan TBH. I would have never hired him after that Atlanta travesty in the SB personally. Not like he built that offense, he inherited a potent offensive roster there. Then to watch him choke away a game like that on a team notorious for choking was just something that would have given me pause as a GM. The 49er SB did nothing to erase those concerns either, at least not for me.

And Josh couldn't win at the college level either...its a mute point. Just like how guys who won in college have gone on to be terrible in the pros. I will judge the HC by what he does in the NFL. Right now, hes still a question mark, I am just not going to condemn him just on his college record alone.

Why cant they contend for a Super Bowl? They will have a good defense next year and an ascending offense. If Murray takes another step in his 3rd year like Josh did, they could be a very good team. Im not saying they are the favorite, but they are a team on the rise as long as one believes in Murray, and most do, including myself, that Murray should get better in his 3rd year.

No people are saying the Cardinals are not even a playoff team and the worst team in the division. And since when is a team being a "contender" suddenly a statement of being a "lock". You're just being absurd now and you know it. I said they are an ascending team...it was pretty clear what I said.

I get what you are saying...but we are fans here discussing the very thing. So my point was that it wasn't just my personal hot take, Kyle took a lot of heat for both Super Bowls by a lot of people, sports reporters, players, analysts, and fans. And I am not advocating for Klingsbury either, he is very much still a work in progress as a young coach before anyone knows what he is or isn't. I just didn't agree that Kyle is automatically substantially better as I think he still also has a lot to prove.

I didnt claim they were Super Bowl bound, what are you even talking about

Ok wanna make a wager that the Cardinals have a winning record in 2021?

Draft really depends on FA...especially if Milano leaves. I think there is a significant chance we go CB or OL round 1. However, if Milano leaves and we dont sign his replacement, LB becomes a very high priority. DT or Najee Harris could be in play there too, but I think it’s less likely. FA/Trades: I think guys like Leonard Williams, Dalvin Tomlinson, and Shelby Harris will be watched closely by Beane. I can see us adding a TE as well. Im not saying pass rush help won’t be looked at or added, but I think our two biggest issues are size/strength up front and controlling the LOS.

I am glad Star should be back, but his year off at his age concerns me to wear I’m not sold he can be the solution, although I hope he is. If we don’t get size in there, I expect more of the same issues on defense is the problem. So my top priority is the interior line where we got dominated a lot. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not against upgrading the pass rush, I’m just way more concerned about getting shoved around in the middle.

WE NEED DL BEEF MORE THAN A PASS RUSH. Bills were 6th in the NFL on QB Pressures last season. Out interior DL was pushed around and we frequently lost in the trenches. Not saying we can’t upgrade the pass rush, but we don’t have a ton of money to spend, and we MUST shore up the interior line with some size or we won’t see much change in our defense next year. It makes everyone’s jobs easier when you have space eaters taking on multiple blockers.

And then blew the game against a mediocre Texans team. I didn’t say they are an exact mirror, just similar positions.

I didn’t say he’s not a good offensive mind, but he’s twice choked on the biggest stage is my point. So he’s far from proven as a HC at this point. Plenty of coaches have reached Super Bowls that weren’t really that good of a coach overall long term and have gone on to even eventually be fired. So saying he’s made the SB, while also playing a significant role in blowing it twice (both as an OC and HC) doesn’t cement him as a great HC in my book is all I am saying. He may never make another one again, and I am pretty certain he won’t be making it back there in 2021.

Bills lost 4 of their last 5 games in 2019 including the playoff game.

Well once as a HC, the other as an OC and it was squarely on him for why he lost as an OC with some of the worst decisions in history allowing Pats the chance to rally back from a massive double digit deficit.

Sounds just like the Bills in 2019 before they went 13-3 after their young QB took a big step on year 3. Except AZ easily has the better defense on paper heading into their QBs third year.

But is it? Same hot take many had and most Niner fans I know hate Kyle. Flacons fans still despise him too. I mean there are countless articles about it, it’s not just my hot take. Here are hair a couple I quickly grabbed, but there are tons of these. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/nfl/2020/2/2/21119688/super-bowl-2020-san-francisco-49ers-mistakes-kyle-shanahan https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.onlinegambling.com/news/kyle-shanahan-chokes-again-breaking-down-super-bowl-meltdown-2/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/thefalconswire.usatoday.com/2020/02/03/atlanta-falcons-san-francisco-49ers-kyle-shanahan-twitter-roasted-super-bowl-54/amp/ Even when he got the job, questions were there because of the stupidity of his Atlanta play calling with a massive 2nd half lead against the Pats. https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2691483-super-bowl-debacle-should-give-49ers-second-thoughts-about-kyle-shanahan.amp.html PS: And you know I also respect you as a poster, so not being a jerk here, just showing you it’s not just my hot take as you put it

He called a very conservative offense fist half and left points off the board. He was heavily scrutinized for how he managed the game, especially the first half, and then for the second time he blew a double digit 4th quarter lead in the Super Bowl.

You mean the same Kyle Shannahan that literally blew 2 SB wins with his terrible coaching decisions? That Kyle? Klingsbury has a lot to prove still, but Kyle isn’t any more proven and choked on the biggest stage twice.

A far better coach? You mean the coach that blew not one, but TWO Super Bowls with terrible coaching decisions? I’m gonna have to disagree with that assessment on that alone. Not saying Klingsbury is great, but can’t say a guy who blew it in two Super Bowls as an OC then HC is far superior. Most Niners fans I know hate him.