Alphadawg7

I agree with this, but I am also not paying a game manager $42M a year. So I need to see more from Baker before I hand him top end of the market money like guys such as Kap, Tannehill (Miami) and Cousins sought and got before really earning that pay level. If I was to extend Baker today I would say lower $30M range is fair. But you know his team is gonna seek $40M plus if he and the Browns have a similar season next year even though. Would you really want to pay Baker say for example $42M next year if he’s good, not great again this year? I just don’t think they can win anything if they did that without Baker taking another big step. And he very well could take a big step in 2021, not knocking him, I mean I like Baker and agree with you and also think he’s going to have a long career in the NFL. Baker so far is a lot more Alex Smith than he is Deshaun Watson. Doesn’t mean he can’t be a top 5 guy, just saying he hasn’t reached that higher plateau yet IMHO. I guess I am just not the guy who hands out cap killing contracts to just anyone because it’s what others do.

Agree there is no one way to win in the NFL as there are many paths and roster makeups that led to championships... But...there is one way to almost guarantee you will never win one because it’s still never happened, and that is to over pay mid tier QB as one of highest players in NFL history. Literally it’s never ever worked out for any team ever. And most my comments you responded to where pertaining to Cousins whose definitely not as good as Dak. Dak is closer to that top tier than the Cousins of the world and most my dialogue was in regards to Cousins convo. My biggest issue in Dallas isnt even Daks contract, it the gross contracts of Cooper and Zeke to go with it. To answer your Baker question, he was much improved in 2020, good year for the kid for sure. But if Cleveland has to now pay Baker top 3 money to keep him, I’ll say it right now, he isn’t worth it (at least not yet). Nothing against Baker, I loved him coming out of college and he’s a good young player. But I’m not paying him say $42M a year for example after throwing 3500 yards and 27 TDs as more of a game manager role. That offense is anchored by a dominant OL and run game more than it is passing. His job is more a game manager than it is being the focal point of the offense. For me, as improved as Baker was, he hasn’t been on Daks level of productivity yet and isn’t in the same compensation category yet as Dak, or other top paid QBs. Of course he can still get there, but just saying he’s not at that level yet and would not pay him as if he was.

Levy was over rated IMO. Yes he got to 4 straight Super Bowls, and can never take that away from him as it may likely never be done again, but he was terrible in those SB’s IMHO. I feel like he was a product of an insanely talented roster, to have never won a SB in 4 years was where I feel his short comings as a coach contributed to that. I don’t think I will ever forgive him for the last drive against the Giants to basically not even attempt to advance the ball despite having the time to do it. He made his mind up he was gonna settle for a long FG kick rather than use the insanely talented offense to try and at least get that FG try closer. It was the ultimate scared and wussy move. I know it’s not fair comparison, but I already prefer McD who has the bravado to be aggressive and isn’t afraid to take risks. I feel like that McD’s makeup is more inline with a champion coach than Levy’s was. Clearly Levy still has him dominated in the resume department, but I fully believe McD is going to be a SB Champion HC here and ultimately surpass Levy and break all his franchise records as a coach.

Actually you are wrong, we rarely had a top pick in the draft. We suffered through many 6-8 win seasons always missing in being in the right slot to get that elite talent or QB in the draft. And the occasional times we did have good draft slots we did not have a competent staff and front office to utilize those picks. The Bills are an exact example of why it’s dumb to keep playing for mediocrity. It was not until Beane came in and said tear it all down, get rid of everyone, clear the cap out and get into position anyway we can to get a QB. McD turned out to be a great coach who could get the most out of his roster and shocked everyone making the playoffs right away. But Beane still had traded lots of other of what at the time was considered as our better players to get the draft ammo to instead move up to get our guy since our record didn’t get us there. But it was not until a real GM came in and committed to fully clearing the whole roster and cap out before we truly turned the corner. It of course takes a talented front office and staff to also successfully find the right pieces after that, but none of it happens if we didn’t have Beane start clearing it all out where 3 years later there to today there isn’t a single player still on the roster from the past regime.

I get what you are saying except what you are proposing has not ever worked. Show me one Super Bowl champion who had a mid tier QB who was one of the few highest paid QBs in the NFL at the time of the championship. I mean, maybe I am missing one, but I don’t think it’s ever happened and looking at the list of last super bowl winners the last 30 years I can’t see any that jump out to me. Yes, plenty of mid tier QBs have won Super Bowls, even bottom third guys like Dilfer. But none of them had top paid elite player contracts like what Cousins was seeking, like what guys such as Kap, Tannehill (in Miami), Cousins, etc got at the time they received them. And those guys won a SB because they have very talented rosters all around them with high priced elite players at many other positions because they did not have a huge QB contract choking their cap. I play to win Super Bowls, that’s is the one and only objective of Football. I am not remotely interested in fielding a moderately competitive team for 10 years. So for me, I would rather rebuild which HAS led to several super bowl titles then dump huge amounts of money into a QB that’s not worth that money and will prevent the team from putting a Super Bowl roster together due to the cap issues of paying a player who can’t carry you through the inevitable roster deficiencies it creates. But again, that’s just my philosophy because I hate losing so much and am super competitive. And the only thing that counts as winning for me is legitimately competing for championships...not just winning records in the regular season.

Smith was short term compared to what Cousins wanted and a guy to place hold while they found a young QB to groom. And clearly they felt he was a better option than paying what Cousins wanted which was top of the market money.

Yeah its called a rebuild, so I dont care about years 1 and 2. They have a new staff and some impressive young players in place on both sides of the ball with a good cap. I would much rather be the team they are right now then the team they would be if they kept Kirk Cousins and paid him that money.

Its not a matter of did the QB after him play as well, its about is the team in a better position to win. There is no way WFT would be a contender right now if Cousins would have stayed. Instead, they are now on a better path towards future success. Minnesota isnt winning any more, in fact, winning less, with Cousins than they did with lower priced journeyman QB's.

I don't disagree with that. But I would say, when you make the mistake and miss the chance to lock them up more reasonably, you are potentially doubling down on that mistake by over paying them later. For example, Kirk Cousins and the WFT were in a similar showdown. And while the WFT is still in the rebuilding process and has not adequately replaced Cousins yet, they are on a better trajectory because they did not cave and pay Cousins. If I am WFT, I would rather be where they are now and have guys like Chase Young on the roster than still having Kirk Cousins. Yes, they still need to solve the QB position, but Cousins clearly was not going to get them anywhere either. (Yes I know Dak is also better than Kirk, but just saying it was a similar situation). I think the bigger issue is Jerry Jones and just not having the stomach to rebuild. If I was a GM in Dallas, I wouldn't be afraid to tear it down and rebuild the cap and roster. I don't think Jerry Jones wants to even remotely consider doing that despite just twisting in the wind of mediocrity for over a decade.

I cant really disagree with this, at $32M I think that would have been a great spot for him until his next contract. And even though I am critical of Dak in terms of the upper elite pay category he is in, I recognize the kid is a good football player still. There are just some guys that can not lift their teams above their other deficiencies. And so far, I think Dak falls into that category, but there is still plenty of career to change this perception. That place where the Stafford, Rivers, Ryans, etc have lived. Guys who can put up individual statistical achievements, but still not win enough because the team around them wasn't strong enough. Then you have guys like Brady, Rodgers, and Wilson for example that win despite having bad deficiencies such as bad defenses, weak OL, poor weapons to work with, etc. They are so good and so clutch they can win with just about any personnel on the field. They wont always win the SB, but they are a perennial contender despite what the rest of the roster looks like. If I am paying a guy a cap killing contract, I want that guy to be my field general. Its easier said than done to get one of those guys clearly, so I get why Dallas has to pay what is in front of them too. Bringing this convo home to the Bills, I sincerely believe we have a QB in Josh Allen that is in that elite category of elevating his team beyond its deficiencies. I mean he just led us to 13-3 record (and lets be honest, should have been 14-2) despite fielding a defense that has no idea how to cover a TE, defense the middle of the field, cant win in the trenches, and struggles badly to defend the run.

Totally agree with this too

I should clarify, I wasn't trying to imply it was all on Dak. What I was referencing is that with a more affordable Dak, Dallas still wasn't fielding a very good team. The ability to rebuild that roster into a true SB contender now with Dak's contract just got that much harder. I think for me, I just look at 2019 too and see an 8-8 team that was relatively healthy all year and in the worst division in the NFL. And I ask myself had Wilson, Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Mahomes, or even the 2020 version of Josh Allen had been on that team in 2019 as the QB, would they still miss the playoffs or would they have won the division? And personally, I believe they win that division and make the playoffs with one of those guys. I totally get why they paid him though, I mean his stats merit the paycheck. But, I also feel his stats get inflated when they are down big in games and also against weaker competition, especially playing in that garbage division. But hey, I am happy for him...good for him for achieving his goals and getting paid. I just think that Dallas right now is going to have a hard time truly contending the next 4 years the way that team is made up and with other gaudy contracts like Cooper and Zeke there for part of that time.

1-3...my bad and you’re right. But they also really should have been 0-4 to start the season but Atlanta decided to forget the onside kick recovery rules and for some dumb reason seemed to think it had to go 10 yards before they could recover and didn’t recover the kick.

Nope it doesn’t correlate. If you look back, you will see most SB winners are not the leagues highest paid QBs at the time they won the SB. Just look at the last 10 to 20 years where QB contracts have been continuously getting bigger and largest parts of teams caps. Brady took less money for most of his career to help the team compete. Manning was cheaper in Denver, Wilson and Mahommes won on rookie deals, Flacco won before he got a big deal, etc etc. In the vast majority of SB champions, the QB at the time of that SB was not one of the highest paid QB’s in the league.

Dak led Cowboys were 1-4 and the only one win was because Atlanta choked again and decided to not even attempt to recover an onside kick attempt. Otherwise they would have been 0-5. As bad as the offense was after, they actually had a better record with Dalton. No one will claim Dalton is better option, so that’s not what I am saying. But...if they are 1-4 or 0-5 team with Dak not being a massive cap hit, how are they supposed to be a SB contender now WITH Dak being a major cap choker? I get why they paid him, I just don’t think Dak is going to be a guy who can carry a team when the cap issues restrict their ability to make the roster better around him. I have a feeling Dallas will be a perennial middle of the road team failing to hit expectations over those 4 years of Daks contract IMHO. They won’t suck enough to get premium draft picks and they won’t be good enough to challenge for a deep playoff run.

Yeah same. I mean he had a “solid” career ultimately, but the guy should have been special.

Dude I was just going to say the same thing. I will never understand why he didn’t get more of a chance either. I always said I feel like his career might have gone different had he not been drafted by the Lions and he was grossly mismanaged and never really given much chance to succeed or even play. Honestly Jeff George was probably one of the 10 most talented QBs to ever play the game. He just had the personality, likability, and mental game of Jay Cutler. If he was less of a douche he would have probably had a HOF career.

He’s not going to be cut because someone will trade for him. He is in demand, so trading for him insures you get him vs him being a FA. And his cost is going to be cheap in terms of trade value, so someone will more than likely pull the trigger instead of just waiting for him to be cut and hoping you can recruit him over other options. And where our roster is at right now, very hard for later round picks to make this roster, so I can see Beane trading day 3 pick for him IF he wants Ertz. And honestly I do think it makes a lot of sense. He’s a guy who can help us win now while also helping Knox continue to develop by learning from one of the best TE’s over the last decade. That being said, there are a lot of options available in FA and a few more like Ertz, Njoku, and OJ Howard that are probably available cheap in trade this offseason. So Ertz isn’t a “must” get either and we dont yet know Beanes preferred targets at TE.

People who don’t know much about football I would suspect. Pretty ridiculous to even think we would have cut Hyde.

In ten years, hes eclipsed 600 yards just twice, and never reached 900 yards mostly playing on pass happy offenses. He is a very good Redzone target, but hes never been a monster in the passing game overall. Heck, hes only broke 500 yards 3 times in 10 years. Not saying he would be a bad addition, just think there are more intriguing guys that are available in FA or possibly trade. I would first look at Everett in FA or kick the tires on sending a day 3 pick for either Ertz, Njoku, or Howard...neither of their teams have any negotiating power, especially since OJ is third on the depth chart and prob wont be back, Njoku is arguably 3rd now on the depth chart and not expected to be a Brown come week 1, and Ertz has his replacement already in place and out producing him...also not expect to be back with his team. So trade values on those guys will be way down, especially with a deep TE free agent class too.

The problem is they changed the kickoff rules that made an onside kick even MORE difficult to complete than it already was. That is the real issue, not that the onside needs to be easier, its that they made substantially less likely than it had been throughout NFL history with the changes to the kickoff. Personally, I don't hate this idea, but I think 4th and 15 is too easy. If they are going to go with a 4th and distance scenario, I think it should be more like 4th and 20 or 4th and 25. Maybe limit the defense from being able to line all their guys up down filed around the 25 yard mark and make them play a normal D formation with only the safeties allowed to line up deep. So I agree it should NOT be made to be so easy that it happens at too high of a rate, but it should also not be so hard that its super rare to convert.

Rudolph is an aging vet, but given their interest in Olsen last year, maybe that is what they want for Knox to learn from as well. I am not as excited for him, I mean in mostly playing in pass happy offenses, he has only eclipsed 600 yards twice in 10 seasons. He is a good Redzone threat though. Word is his initial interest is in playing for the Pats. Personally, I think the guy they will more likely go after is Gerald Everett. He is young enough with a skill set to be an impact player in all facets of the position. His stats are not big because he split time with another talented TE in an offense thats had 3 very good WR's almost at all times and Todd Gurley at his best. But I think he has a lot of upside if he was a featured TE in our offense. Guys not yet available as free agents, but could be cut or had in a trade are OJ Howard, Ertz, and Njoku. I think Beane will inquire about what it would take to land one of these 3 as well before they become a FA. The reason being that its going to be a LOT harder for day 3 picks to make this roster this year and I can easily see Beane flipping one for one of these guys. And make no mistake about it, the trade value of these guys is not very high due to injuries and lack of need for their teams. All 3 have guys in place to start at TE already, most of which are ahead of these guys on depth charts. Teams know they will likely cut them with the lower cap if they don't trade them. So I think all 3 could be had for a day 3 pick. Ertz is the only one whose played at a high level, but hes up there in age and battled injuries, so even he likely would go for a day 3 pick or no higher than a 4th rounder IMO. So thats my list: I think the FA they would target first is Everett. But I think Beane will also look to maybe trade some of later draft assets for one of those other guys too. I would personally be pretty excited about any of those 4. Rudolph wouldn't be a bad signing either, but I think he has less left in the tank than the other guys.

No reason people should crap on Jordan, he was cheering for and rooting for the Bills all playoffs. He loves Buffalo and the fan base. He's not a hater just because he's excited about Watt joining his team. And as a non- biased Bills fan...I will say 3 things: One, we couldn't afford to pay him and it was right decision not to pay him. Two, he played his ass off here and loved every minute of being a Bill and loved the fans. Three, our defensive line was not as good without him. Doesn't mean he isn't replaceable, and honestly losing Star hurt our DL more, but its not like we can say we got better with him leaving either. So wish the man well, glad he got the contract he wanted after working hard here for the Bills and the fans. He wanted to stay, but we just couldn't pay him what he was going to get from AZ.

Hard to say it was all about the money when he turned down offers for more money with teams who made the playoffs last year in Browns and Colts. I think that narrative can now be put to rest.

I am not opposed to it, I am just more concerned with other areas and having the cap space to make the most important upgrades. My biggest issue with DE is how much they cost to upgrade. I also think AJE is quite promising, and I would rather see him start opposite Hughes and let Addison rotate in. I also think we need a quality player at LB as I don't think Milano will be back. I would be happy to see him stay, but I just don't think Beane will be pay what Milano is going to look for. So I see a certain hole at DB opposite Tre and a probably hole at LB right now, with a major mystery at DT as we don't know what to except from Star at his age and missing a year. Where at DE, I see guys who got pressure on the QB and a young guy that should play a lot more snaps this year. Also, with Star back or some other Beef, guys like Jefferson can play their more suited position too and contribute to the rotation. Thats all I am saying really.