Alphadawg7

I mean no disrespect at all, I enjoy you as a poster and respect you, but this reply here couldn’t be less relevant to what I’ve been saying and what we’ve been discussing. I mean literally my entire point has been that sometimes it’s better to get worse so you can get better versus just committing to mediocrity for the sake of winning a few more regular season games.

And bringing this back to Dak, I am more against the bad contracts of Cooper and Zeke than Dak. I get why they paid Dak his money and he is a top 10 QB prior to injury. I still don’t love paying Dak, and missing out on locking him up at $32M was just yet another Cowboys blunder. I do have concerns that Dak can’t carry a team the way other top guys could. And I think Dallas is going to struggle to seriously contend during his next 4 years. As far as Minnesota goes, I don’t blame Minnesota for taking a chance on him to try and get to the next level, which at the time meant serious SB run. Most my talk was about why Washington didn’t pay him and used how Minnesota didn’t get any better with him as evidence as to why they were right not to pay him.

Whats his Peloton say?

But Cousins is not a top 10 QB...so again, I don't see how you are using the comparison. And the previous comment you are replying about in terms of me saying its never been done, I posted my actual quote above where I said "mid-tier" QB, not a top 10 QB which can be anyone from the 6th best to 10th best guy. For example, paying say the 7th best QB as top 3 isn't a gross over pay and not what I was referencing. I am talking about when teams over commit to guys like a Kap, Tannehill (in Miami), or Cousins. This is why I dont really understand why you are using Eli here in either discussion regarding that comment or Cousins.

Bummed to see Brown go, mad respect to him and will always root for his continued success except when facing us. Cant say it wasn't unexpected, although I had hoped Beane would find a way to restructure him to be able to stay.

He was a 4th year QB already in the top 10 in the league on his way to a what might end up being a HOF career. I mean he is the 8th leading passer in NFL history. I am not even sure why you are trying to argue him here. I mean, his contract was not out of whack to who he was as a player back then and he was still getting better and finished as a 2 time SB MVP and Winner, 8th all time in passing, and 9th all time in TD's. And he led the Giants to the playoffs 3 times and a Super Bowl Championship with a SB MVP in his first 4 seasons. I mean he was 5th in the NFL in passing his second year, which was his first year as a 16 game starter and made the playoffs each of his first 3 seasons as a 16 game starter and one SB win and SB MVP. Sorry...how again is his contract out of whack, which was a rookie contract to begin with? I just can't see how this is an example to refute what I said about paying mid tier guys top end money never working. 4th overall pick to SB MVP in 4 seasons while making the playoffs all 3 seasons as the full time starter is a pretty darn good start to a career. I mean even in his rookie year, Kurt Warner couldn't even keep the kid on the bench who went on to have some more excellent season in AZ after that.

First off, Cousins cap hit on the franchise tag was going to be $34M and he was seeking near that kind of money from the Redskins. Cousins team wasn't going to budge with them and this went on for 2 seasons. So Alex Smith contract was quite a bit cheaper than what Cousins was willing to sign for in Washington. Second, no one believed at any point that Washington saw Alex Smith as a long term answer and the contract wasn't a long term commitment. They had just made the playoffs and wanted to bring a vet in to keep winning. They GROSSLY overpaid for Smith when you factor in compensation in the trade at the time to get him and the contract, even though the cap hit was much lower than what Cousins wanted. And once again...grossly over paying for a QB (Smith in this case) again did NOT work out...just like Cousins has not propelled Minnesota anywhere further either and now have had the rest of the roster start to deteriorate with cap issues.

Exactly, they felt Alex Smith was better option than Cousins for that roster. They felt they could keep winning with Smith on a shorter deal and then draft a young guy behind him to eventually take the reigns. I wasn't saying letting Cousins go was the beginning of the rebuild even though it eventually led to it directly due to injuries and roster decisions. I used Buffalo as the direct example of a GM coming in and despite a playoff birth, committing to tearing down the roster and rebuilding the cap early on.

If I am being honest, this is not a fair comparison or example. Eli had that cap hit because that was before rookie contracts were changed and capped after the JaMarcus Russel disaster in 2007 (The year Eli won his first SB) finally smartened the league up from giving top picked QB's monster contracts right out of college. And in 2007, he wasn't one of the top few players paid in the league. He got his biggest contract in 2009 after winning a Super Bowl and SB MVP, something he would do twice as well (second one 2 years later in 2011). And the year he won the Super Bowl in 2011 for the Giants as among the leagues highest paid, he was the 4th leading passer in the NFL and played to his contract level. Not to mention in both Super Bowl runs, he put up 15TDs to just 2 INTs in those 8 games with nearly a 100 QB rating. Kirks postseason production is not close to that. Plus, Eli is a borderline HOF QB...I personally wouldn't vote for him, but hes absolutely going to get consideration for the HOF and could possibly eventually get in. Kirk is no where near that conversation. And Eli was either in the top 10 or at least in the top 10 conversations through a lot of his career too. He finished his career 8th all time in passing yards and ninth all time in Touchdowns. So while I get why you mention him, and its a good reply overall, it still does not refute what I said earlier about that strategy never working. Eli was playing to the level of his contract when they won those SB's.

I agree with this, but I am also not paying a game manager $42M a year. So I need to see more from Baker before I hand him top end of the market money like guys such as Kap, Tannehill (Miami) and Cousins sought and got before really earning that pay level. If I was to extend Baker today I would say lower $30M range is fair. But you know his team is gonna seek $40M plus if he and the Browns have a similar season next year even though. Would you really want to pay Baker say for example $42M next year if he’s good, not great again this year? I just don’t think they can win anything if they did that without Baker taking another big step. And he very well could take a big step in 2021, not knocking him, I mean I like Baker and agree with you and also think he’s going to have a long career in the NFL. Baker so far is a lot more Alex Smith than he is Deshaun Watson. Doesn’t mean he can’t be a top 5 guy, just saying he hasn’t reached that higher plateau yet IMHO. I guess I am just not the guy who hands out cap killing contracts to just anyone because it’s what others do.

Agree there is no one way to win in the NFL as there are many paths and roster makeups that led to championships... But...there is one way to almost guarantee you will never win one because it’s still never happened, and that is to over pay mid tier QB as one of highest players in NFL history. Literally it’s never ever worked out for any team ever. And most my comments you responded to where pertaining to Cousins whose definitely not as good as Dak. Dak is closer to that top tier than the Cousins of the world and most my dialogue was in regards to Cousins convo. My biggest issue in Dallas isnt even Daks contract, it the gross contracts of Cooper and Zeke to go with it. To answer your Baker question, he was much improved in 2020, good year for the kid for sure. But if Cleveland has to now pay Baker top 3 money to keep him, I’ll say it right now, he isn’t worth it (at least not yet). Nothing against Baker, I loved him coming out of college and he’s a good young player. But I’m not paying him say $42M a year for example after throwing 3500 yards and 27 TDs as more of a game manager role. That offense is anchored by a dominant OL and run game more than it is passing. His job is more a game manager than it is being the focal point of the offense. For me, as improved as Baker was, he hasn’t been on Daks level of productivity yet and isn’t in the same compensation category yet as Dak, or other top paid QBs. Of course he can still get there, but just saying he’s not at that level yet and would not pay him as if he was.

Levy was over rated IMO. Yes he got to 4 straight Super Bowls, and can never take that away from him as it may likely never be done again, but he was terrible in those SB’s IMHO. I feel like he was a product of an insanely talented roster, to have never won a SB in 4 years was where I feel his short comings as a coach contributed to that. I don’t think I will ever forgive him for the last drive against the Giants to basically not even attempt to advance the ball despite having the time to do it. He made his mind up he was gonna settle for a long FG kick rather than use the insanely talented offense to try and at least get that FG try closer. It was the ultimate scared and wussy move. I know it’s not fair comparison, but I already prefer McD who has the bravado to be aggressive and isn’t afraid to take risks. I feel like that McD’s makeup is more inline with a champion coach than Levy’s was. Clearly Levy still has him dominated in the resume department, but I fully believe McD is going to be a SB Champion HC here and ultimately surpass Levy and break all his franchise records as a coach.

Actually you are wrong, we rarely had a top pick in the draft. We suffered through many 6-8 win seasons always missing in being in the right slot to get that elite talent or QB in the draft. And the occasional times we did have good draft slots we did not have a competent staff and front office to utilize those picks. The Bills are an exact example of why it’s dumb to keep playing for mediocrity. It was not until Beane came in and said tear it all down, get rid of everyone, clear the cap out and get into position anyway we can to get a QB. McD turned out to be a great coach who could get the most out of his roster and shocked everyone making the playoffs right away. But Beane still had traded lots of other of what at the time was considered as our better players to get the draft ammo to instead move up to get our guy since our record didn’t get us there. But it was not until a real GM came in and committed to fully clearing the whole roster and cap out before we truly turned the corner. It of course takes a talented front office and staff to also successfully find the right pieces after that, but none of it happens if we didn’t have Beane start clearing it all out where 3 years later there to today there isn’t a single player still on the roster from the past regime.

I get what you are saying except what you are proposing has not ever worked. Show me one Super Bowl champion who had a mid tier QB who was one of the few highest paid QBs in the NFL at the time of the championship. I mean, maybe I am missing one, but I don’t think it’s ever happened and looking at the list of last super bowl winners the last 30 years I can’t see any that jump out to me. Yes, plenty of mid tier QBs have won Super Bowls, even bottom third guys like Dilfer. But none of them had top paid elite player contracts like what Cousins was seeking, like what guys such as Kap, Tannehill (in Miami), Cousins, etc got at the time they received them. And those guys won a SB because they have very talented rosters all around them with high priced elite players at many other positions because they did not have a huge QB contract choking their cap. I play to win Super Bowls, that’s is the one and only objective of Football. I am not remotely interested in fielding a moderately competitive team for 10 years. So for me, I would rather rebuild which HAS led to several super bowl titles then dump huge amounts of money into a QB that’s not worth that money and will prevent the team from putting a Super Bowl roster together due to the cap issues of paying a player who can’t carry you through the inevitable roster deficiencies it creates. But again, that’s just my philosophy because I hate losing so much and am super competitive. And the only thing that counts as winning for me is legitimately competing for championships...not just winning records in the regular season.

Smith was short term compared to what Cousins wanted and a guy to place hold while they found a young QB to groom. And clearly they felt he was a better option than paying what Cousins wanted which was top of the market money.

Yeah its called a rebuild, so I dont care about years 1 and 2. They have a new staff and some impressive young players in place on both sides of the ball with a good cap. I would much rather be the team they are right now then the team they would be if they kept Kirk Cousins and paid him that money.

Its not a matter of did the QB after him play as well, its about is the team in a better position to win. There is no way WFT would be a contender right now if Cousins would have stayed. Instead, they are now on a better path towards future success. Minnesota isnt winning any more, in fact, winning less, with Cousins than they did with lower priced journeyman QB's.

I don't disagree with that. But I would say, when you make the mistake and miss the chance to lock them up more reasonably, you are potentially doubling down on that mistake by over paying them later. For example, Kirk Cousins and the WFT were in a similar showdown. And while the WFT is still in the rebuilding process and has not adequately replaced Cousins yet, they are on a better trajectory because they did not cave and pay Cousins. If I am WFT, I would rather be where they are now and have guys like Chase Young on the roster than still having Kirk Cousins. Yes, they still need to solve the QB position, but Cousins clearly was not going to get them anywhere either. (Yes I know Dak is also better than Kirk, but just saying it was a similar situation). I think the bigger issue is Jerry Jones and just not having the stomach to rebuild. If I was a GM in Dallas, I wouldn't be afraid to tear it down and rebuild the cap and roster. I don't think Jerry Jones wants to even remotely consider doing that despite just twisting in the wind of mediocrity for over a decade.

I cant really disagree with this, at $32M I think that would have been a great spot for him until his next contract. And even though I am critical of Dak in terms of the upper elite pay category he is in, I recognize the kid is a good football player still. There are just some guys that can not lift their teams above their other deficiencies. And so far, I think Dak falls into that category, but there is still plenty of career to change this perception. That place where the Stafford, Rivers, Ryans, etc have lived. Guys who can put up individual statistical achievements, but still not win enough because the team around them wasn't strong enough. Then you have guys like Brady, Rodgers, and Wilson for example that win despite having bad deficiencies such as bad defenses, weak OL, poor weapons to work with, etc. They are so good and so clutch they can win with just about any personnel on the field. They wont always win the SB, but they are a perennial contender despite what the rest of the roster looks like. If I am paying a guy a cap killing contract, I want that guy to be my field general. Its easier said than done to get one of those guys clearly, so I get why Dallas has to pay what is in front of them too. Bringing this convo home to the Bills, I sincerely believe we have a QB in Josh Allen that is in that elite category of elevating his team beyond its deficiencies. I mean he just led us to 13-3 record (and lets be honest, should have been 14-2) despite fielding a defense that has no idea how to cover a TE, defense the middle of the field, cant win in the trenches, and struggles badly to defend the run.

Totally agree with this too

I should clarify, I wasn't trying to imply it was all on Dak. What I was referencing is that with a more affordable Dak, Dallas still wasn't fielding a very good team. The ability to rebuild that roster into a true SB contender now with Dak's contract just got that much harder. I think for me, I just look at 2019 too and see an 8-8 team that was relatively healthy all year and in the worst division in the NFL. And I ask myself had Wilson, Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Mahomes, or even the 2020 version of Josh Allen had been on that team in 2019 as the QB, would they still miss the playoffs or would they have won the division? And personally, I believe they win that division and make the playoffs with one of those guys. I totally get why they paid him though, I mean his stats merit the paycheck. But, I also feel his stats get inflated when they are down big in games and also against weaker competition, especially playing in that garbage division. But hey, I am happy for him...good for him for achieving his goals and getting paid. I just think that Dallas right now is going to have a hard time truly contending the next 4 years the way that team is made up and with other gaudy contracts like Cooper and Zeke there for part of that time.

1-3...my bad and you’re right. But they also really should have been 0-4 to start the season but Atlanta decided to forget the onside kick recovery rules and for some dumb reason seemed to think it had to go 10 yards before they could recover and didn’t recover the kick.

Nope it doesn’t correlate. If you look back, you will see most SB winners are not the leagues highest paid QBs at the time they won the SB. Just look at the last 10 to 20 years where QB contracts have been continuously getting bigger and largest parts of teams caps. Brady took less money for most of his career to help the team compete. Manning was cheaper in Denver, Wilson and Mahommes won on rookie deals, Flacco won before he got a big deal, etc etc. In the vast majority of SB champions, the QB at the time of that SB was not one of the highest paid QB’s in the league.

Dak led Cowboys were 1-4 and the only one win was because Atlanta choked again and decided to not even attempt to recover an onside kick attempt. Otherwise they would have been 0-5. As bad as the offense was after, they actually had a better record with Dalton. No one will claim Dalton is better option, so that’s not what I am saying. But...if they are 1-4 or 0-5 team with Dak not being a massive cap hit, how are they supposed to be a SB contender now WITH Dak being a major cap choker? I get why they paid him, I just don’t think Dak is going to be a guy who can carry a team when the cap issues restrict their ability to make the roster better around him. I have a feeling Dallas will be a perennial middle of the road team failing to hit expectations over those 4 years of Daks contract IMHO. They won’t suck enough to get premium draft picks and they won’t be good enough to challenge for a deep playoff run.

Yeah same. I mean he had a “solid” career ultimately, but the guy should have been special.