Alphadawg7

While there was nothing really terrible that Brees said, it was more utterly terrible judgement and timing. Why wasn't it terrible...because the flag means different things to different people. So its ok that it has a deeper significant personal meaning to Brees thats rooted in military service. Just like its ok for other athletes or fans to feel like kneeling was a significant and appropriate peaceful protest for social injustice. Brees crime was poor timing. But I do applaud him for his immediate response and apology for his lack of awareness. I felt it was sincere, and I don't think he is the villain people wanted to make him out to be. Now we can all as a collective world go back to hating Brady and Cheatriots instead of Brees. I think Brees is a good dude that does a lot for his teammates, community, etc.

Except Josh does not have to do any of that to win a Super Bowl. Its not about how much stats your QB puts up, its about how many wins he leads your team too. For years, the most prolific passers in the NFL struggled to even make the playoffs like Rivers, Ryan, Brees, Stafford, etc. Its is NOT about stats. How are you like one the few people who still does NOT get that? Its not about statistical matching, its about the guy doing what needs to be done on the field to get wins. Allen in his first 2 years, with an inferior roster, leads the NFL in comeback wins and is one of the highest rated 4th quarter rated passers in the entire league. And he missed or did not finish 6 games due to injury in that span, and still leads the NFL in this category over his first 2 years. Your obsession with season total stats is exactly why your logic is flawed. Troy Aikman wasn't a prolific passer, but he won and won a lot with a stacked roster like Dak has. You do not have throw for 4800+ yards and 40+ TDs to win a Super Bowl. So sorry, who the hell cares about what you think Allen needs to do to statistically match Dak. Dak also doesnt run like Allen...Allen put up 30 TD's but you are only counting his passing ones, yet the rushing ones count the same on the score board. Just about everything you have said is foolish in your analysis.

Just meant, its at least Bills related and it only got to 11. So was unusual to see a non controversial, non bills player, no bills rival have a thread get to 10 pages. Felt like a 3 page topic, so thought maybe there was some kind of speculation worth exploring that might have been the catalyst. If it was just about Kittle and his contract, wasn't really something I was interested in combing 10 pages for was all.

Come on man, you cant disqualify "obvious" answers. They are factual answers, hence the "obvious". And you already acknowledged and gave me props for advocating to pay Wilson when he was at the same stage of Dak, not the Wilson of today. So you KNOW I am consistent in my answer as you looked it up yourself. And most people here did not want to pay Wilson really when I was saying to pay him, most people said he was just a product of Lynch, which was nonsense. And to answer your question, yes I would feel more comfortable paying Watson. Why...because I dont look at Watson and feel like he is "under achieving" with his team. He has carried that team, especially with weak run support, injuries to his receivers and TE's, injuries to elite players like Watt, and bad OL most his career, etc. And that roster is no where near as talented overall as the Cowboys have had during Daks 4 years. Watson hasn't had a top 5 roster 4 straight years and failed to make the playoffs twice and only won one playoff game. Dak has. Its that simple. Watson has done about as much, or more than Dak with a lesser roster. Watson has reached playoffs in 2 of his 3 years and has one win, and the only time he missed the playoffs was the year he was knocked out for the season mid way as a rookie. Dak has made playoffs twice in 4 years, and has one win. Watson has a lesser roster, and has been more consistent in leading his team and made playoffs in back to back years, something Dak has yet to do despite the better roster.

You took my post wrong. Allen for Prescott is only 11 pages. So it was unusual a post about another player in the NFC, no rival to Bills, no application to Bills in anyway, no controversy, went to 10+ pages. So I was asking, did it just carry on for some other reason, or were the Bills somehow tied into this convo. Like is there rumors Kittle is available and we could make a play. I didn't want to read 10 pages of contract talk if that was all it was, and was just simply asking if there was Bills connection to this topic for it to reach a longer length than it would typically do if no Bills connection or controversy attached. I was not mocking this thread at all, so sorry if it seemed that way. Was just trying to find out if there was something I should dive into buried inside this thread that would interest me.

Dude...you need to read more. I literally posted about young Wilson as an example of a young player who proved elite traits on the field. Its NOT common to see an ELITE QB emerge as they are NOT many of them in the league at any one time. Geezus dude. I don't pay elite money on a long committed contract to a player who has not elevated the team to even its minimal expectations. He is coming off a year where a TOP FIVE talented roster DID NOT make the playoffs DESPITE no major injuries.

But you cant disqualify Wilson because he won a Super Bowl. And I am not talking about Wilson at 31, I am talking about young Wilson, I was sold on him back then as already being a guy headed to elite status as he played his best in the biggest moments. He took a back to back 7 win team and made it a perennial NFC powerhouse. No one points to the Seahawks and say they underachieve. They aren't making the SB every single year, rosters go through changes, but he has continued to elevate that team year after year, even when the roster wasn't as strong. He's put that team on his back, he's a leader that makes his team better and proved that countless times on the field and in huge moments. Dak is no where near Russels level right now, so he should not be paid like it either. Dak, could still prove be that guy...but he also may be just be a solid QB who has the benefit of very talented rosters around him to put up strong personal stats through big games against softer opponents. Time will tell. But, while I am NOT condemning Dak, I am also not sold he is an elite player worthy of what he is looking for. Its just that simple man. There is nothing anyone can do to convince me that Andy Dalton wasn't capable of having the same level of success playing for the Cowboys the last 4 years that Dak did. Thats the problem. Dak has not separated himself into an elite category. Does Dak have more upside still, absolutely. But, I am not a fan of massively over paying for upside without seeing the winning traits on the field. Dak needs to prove to me he can win because he has the roster to do it, but hasn't done enough of it. Today, I just do not have the confidence that I had in Russel Wilson when I saw what a special talent he was early on. I have the same opinion of Goff, another guy I am not sold on in the same areas I am not sold on with Dak.

I just did answer that question. I suggest you read it again. One playoff win in 4 years with a championship roster all 4 years, including a .500 season last year, and not showing up in the bigger game against better competition. I mean I literally even cited a specific example of a player who came in and immediately elevated his team to a perennial powerhouse in Russel Wilson as an example of a guy who proved early he was worth elite money. Honestly man, you need to start reading the posts better you reply to. You do this a lot.

Again, where did I say he needs to have won a SB already? Some of the GOATS never won a SB or didnt until late in their careers. What I have said, is he has a championship caliber roster and has for multiple years now. Yet the team, led by Dak, has not reached their potential or expectations even in Daks statistical best seasons. He has had a lot of big games against lesser competition, but has not been able to consistently replicate that when it matters most or against better teams. I also said, we don't know why yet. Was it him...coaching...other players around him...etc...we don't know. But what he has NOT done is prove to me IMO that he is worth elite money, at least not YET. I also said he is young and can still prove that on the field. But as a GM, I am not paying elite money to a guy who didnt even make the playoffs with a top 5 roster in the NFL, and IMO the Cowboys had a top 5 roster last year. I dont approve of the money they spent on Cooper (not worth it) or Zeke (talent is worth it, but spending that money on a RB isnt needed in todays NFL and often backfires). I also did not approve of big contracts to guys like Kapernick, Jimmy G, Tannehill (in Miami), etc etc. You know who I pay top money too...Russel Wilson who came in and took an 8-8 team as a rookie and made it a perennial powerhouse from the moment he stepped on the field. Guys who elevate the win totals. Cowboys have won one playoff game in 4 years with a top tier roster over that span. Bottom line, I can name a lot of solid to decent QB's who could have replicated the same amount of team success with that same roster over the 4 years. I havent seen Dak separate himself into elite pay category. He still can...maybe it was all coaching, we wont know until we see Dak and this Cowboy team on the field with new coaching for the first time. BUT...I would WAIT to commit elite money UNTIL I see that difference ON THE FIELD and not the personal stat sheet. So you need to stop claiming I am condemning him, I have done no such thing. I am perfectly within my right to NOT be sold on whether he can be the QB that the contract he is demanding says he is. Why...because he doesn't have the results to justify it despite having the roster to achieve it every year he has been in the NFL.

I do fully agree with this Gunner, its the nature of the position. Overpay is common and understandable with the QB's. I dont personally subscribe to it, like how I agreed with the Redskins decision to not overpay for Cousins who IMO is a 3rd tier, border line 2nd tier starting QB in that 14 to 18 range of rankings. That doesn't mean Redskins have done a good job rebuilding, even if I agree it was better to rebuild than overpay and stick with mediocracy. But I would have made the same decision, although I just also would have made much better decisions after the fact in how to rebuild that team as most of which they have done I have not been a fan of since. But thats bad leadership in that FO IMO. Yet Cowboys missed the playoffs, Dak didnt produce enough in big game or against the better teams. So yeah, cherry picking stats also leads to false positive results.

One year? They have underachieved in Daks best 2 seasons...its more than one year. And where did I condemn him? Dont lump me into some category I am NOT in. I said he was a good QB in the very post you are quoting. You do this a lot dude, you twist statements to mean an extreme that is NOT being said. What I actually said is that he is a good QB but I am not sold on his championship pedigree. He has had a vastly superior roster to most of the NFL the last 2 seasons, and yet they have underachieved. He has big games agaisnt marginal or lower tier talent, but that team is not getting it done often enough agaisnt better competition or big games. I even said, its hard to even answer why right now. This is what I often hate about discussing things with you. You literally claim things are being said that are not being said and its utterly irritating. No disrespect, but I am just being honest about your posting style.

I dont disagree...I dont think Dak is bad like Jameis. I just think its foolish to use stat only based arguments in any situation, especially year end totals. In Daks best seasons, the Cowboys have won nothing essentially and underperformed. There is something to that...is it Dak...was it just coaching...was it other players...its honestly hard to really say exactly why. But he was the leader of that team...and his team and offense too often didn't show up in the big games or big moments. Thats the divisive part of Dak. Saying he's great only because his stats are better isnt telling the whole story. Can using only stats tell the right story...sure...but they are unreliable as the only measurement to reach that conclusion. As you know...I think Dak is a good QB...but I doubt his championship potential. He is young, can certainly prove those doubts wrong on the field. But he has had a very talented roster around him and still keeps coming up short despite individual statistical success. Same with someone like Cooper for instance. End of season stats look great, but he really had a few monster games to pad those stats and was way way way too often irrelevant in the big moments and big games and wildly inconsistent. Which is why it was ludicrous to me to hand that man a $100M contract at $20M per year. $12-$14M a year...sure, all day. But that kind of money he got is reserved for only the elite WR's. Dak wants elite QB money, but he's been far from elite IMO thus far.

James Winston led the NFL in passing last year. He is not a good QB. Stat chasing is a fools path to false positive results.

Ok...I have a question to those in this thread. Why do we have a 10 page thread on an NFC teams contract negotiants with their TE? I dont ask that in a pompous way, but I dont want to read 10 pages of debate of the value of someone else's TE either. So whats the reason? Is there speculation that he is available...that Bills could be interested? I mean I dont get the length of discussion of some random teams contract with a TE. So is there more to this, or did this particular convo just run long for some other reason?

Im ok with Pitt and Dallas being ranked ahead of us...I dont entirely agree, but its not aggregious, both have great rosters right now and both have QB's most people on the outside see as more established and better as of today (before the season begins). Personally, I think us, Dallas and Pitt (assuming Big Ben is healthy all year) are all playoff teams without question...barring injuries of course. So, however they rank that group of 3 is like splitting hairs IMO. But Raiders? Look, I dont think the Raiders are a bad team...they may even surprise this year and be a challenger for the wildcard. But they are not a playoff lock, and there is no way in hell they are a better team right now before the season begins than the Bills. Its just not even debatable. They are not a top 10 team...they could be a top 10 team, we wont know until the season begins. But based on what we know today, they are not deserving of being ranked in the top 10 nor ahead of us. We on the other hand are certainly a top 10 team. In fact, I would have no issue if he simply swapped our position with the Raiders position.

Im not the biggest believer in Dak...in terms of the money he wants. Is he a good starter, sure, he is a starter in this league. But do I think he is a championship quality QB...not so sure. In his best seasons, the Cowboys have under performed. Jameis Winston led the NFL in passing last year...hes a backup. So stat totals don't impress me, how you lead your team on the field is where I start at when it comes to top end money. Allen doesn't have that stat sheet yet that Dak has, but he also has not had as much time in the league nor the same quality of weapons and blocking around him until what looks like this next year. Josh has been rapidly ascending and has all the tools, better tools, than even Dak does. The ceiling on Josh is a lot higher IMO because he has more gifts and to me has shone to be a much better leader on and off the field and he only gets better when the game is on the line. So I would concede that Dak is more advanced as a passer last year than Allen, but I think Allen is more than on his way and I would bet on Allen 10 times out of 10 than trade him and over pay Dak. Not to mention, Allen was built to play in Buffalo, every inch of him. And if I am being honest, if the Bills called Dallas and offered Allen straight up for Dak...I think they would jump on it in a heartbeat and take on a guy with a rookie deal who has more upside than the current guy on the roster looking for a max deal.

Found the link:

109 QB rating on 20+ yard throws to Brown. Now add Diggs. He’s gonna be alright.

Is this you way of trying to discredit the factual information I provided in the other Josh Allen thread where we made our bet? You know, the info that showed Josh Allens QB rating on the deep ball last season? For those who dont know: Josh Allen throwing 20+ yards to John Brown had over a 109 QB rating! Josh Allen throwing 20+ yards to anyone else had a measly 21 QB rating! That is a clear indicator that given it was a list of backups and scrubs opposite Brown, that talent at WR in going after deep balls definitely plays a role in the timing and connection rate between them and their QB. I mean the date is pretty clear as day on this. The real answer is QB and WR greatly affect each other. But I think our specific data on our own team, which is what we should all be talking about, shows that Allen had a high degree of success on the deeper throws to a guy who is a good deep route WR and struggled to connect with the guys that are no more than deep depth WR's or scrubs. CANT WAIT TO SEE HIM THROW DEEP TO BOTH BROWN AND NOW DIGGS! Gonna be sweet when I collect my hundo from you too haha.

I would definitely agree with this assessment, and I also think it has to do with Daboll too and also Josh continuing to mature as a field general. But, of all the areas of coaching, this IMHO is the easiest area to improve and it just comes with time on the field and learning from each situation. McD strikes as a very bright mind and intellectual thinker, so I have pretty high confidence he will keep growing in this regard. And worst case scenario, assistant HC or other assistant roles can be brought in to help mitigate the issues as well in these areas. But I am confident McD will keep improving. Not to mention, at the end of the day, the personnel on the field matter a lot in this regard in properly executing the strategies, and we haven't had a complete roster yet until really this upcoming season for McD.

Last time I checked, 30 TDs was 30 TDs. Hes a dual threat weapon in a league that just saw a dual threat QB win MVP. Allen was second ONLY to Lamar last year from week 5 to end of season in scoring. That was after he openly admitted he had to adjust his game after the week 4 NE game. He put up 21 TDs and only 3 Turnovers over that span. You are severely undervaluing him. Not to mention...9 new starters, rotation on the OL that didnt settle all year, and a league leading drops by his receivers, another group that was all new to him and changed all year long. And just his 2nd season. Allen had a 109 rating throwing deep to John Brown and a 21 QB rating throwing deep to everyone else. What do you think Diggs, the leagues number 1 deep ball WR and number 1 contested catch WR is going to do for Allen and that deep ball? What do you think Diggs is going to do for opening up John Brown more and Cole? Not to mention how it will help Knox and the RB's coming out of the backfield? Sorry man, you have been under selling Allen for a while. There is a LOT more to love here than you give him credit for. Not to mention, how clutch he has been and how many big positive strides he has taken in small periods of time since he last stepped foot on a Wyoming football field. To be honest, I am not really sure any GM would take Tua over Allen, I am just assuming some would given the amount of bad GMs out there.

I agree...I am not sure more the 2 or 3 would take Tua over Allen, and wouldn't surprise me if none did. I was just granting him the benefit of the doubt someone would because there are some pretty stupid GM's out there.

I would bet less than 10 teams in the NFL would choose Tua over Allen right now today. Allen showed great strides and people who know football are high on Allen. There are some GM's that may not be sold, but I don't think its many and its probably none of the good ones.

You are also ignoring that Allen scored the 6th most TDs last year despite starting and finishing just 14 games. He was one of the highest rated passers in the entire 4th quarter. Has the most game winning comebacks in the 4th in the NFL over his 2 years in the NFL, again after missing or not finishing 6 games. And he put up 30 TDs last year despite playing with NINE new starters on offense. Want another fun stat to show how bad his supporting cast was in the deep game struggles: Allen throwing deep 20+ yards to Brown had a 109 QB rating! Allen throwing deep 20+ yards to everyone else had a 21 QB rating! Despite the short comings of his WR group, the NFL leading Bills in dropped passes, 9 new starters on offense, including rookies, an ever shifting OL with Ford moving around...the kid STILL put up 30 TDs in 14 and some change games, led us to 10 wins, tied for most comeback wins, and got us to the playoffs in just his 2nd season. Comparing him to Sanchez is utterly ridiculous.

I already answered that and you IGNORED IT. Wyoming is IRRELEVANT now on how Allen projects to the NFL because he has ALREADY played 2 seasons. UTTERLY STUPID to go back to Wyoming and use that as a comparison for Allen. We already KNOW what he can DO in the REAL NFL. There is no make believe here, he just put up the 6th most TDs in the entire NFL in his 2nd year despite only starting and finishing 14 games. I dont even know how this doesnt make sense to you. For reals man LMFAO