Alphadawg7

Its not a matter of did the QB after him play as well, its about is the team in a better position to win. There is no way WFT would be a contender right now if Cousins would have stayed. Instead, they are now on a better path towards future success. Minnesota isnt winning any more, in fact, winning less, with Cousins than they did with lower priced journeyman QB's.

I don't disagree with that. But I would say, when you make the mistake and miss the chance to lock them up more reasonably, you are potentially doubling down on that mistake by over paying them later. For example, Kirk Cousins and the WFT were in a similar showdown. And while the WFT is still in the rebuilding process and has not adequately replaced Cousins yet, they are on a better trajectory because they did not cave and pay Cousins. If I am WFT, I would rather be where they are now and have guys like Chase Young on the roster than still having Kirk Cousins. Yes, they still need to solve the QB position, but Cousins clearly was not going to get them anywhere either. (Yes I know Dak is also better than Kirk, but just saying it was a similar situation). I think the bigger issue is Jerry Jones and just not having the stomach to rebuild. If I was a GM in Dallas, I wouldn't be afraid to tear it down and rebuild the cap and roster. I don't think Jerry Jones wants to even remotely consider doing that despite just twisting in the wind of mediocrity for over a decade.

I cant really disagree with this, at $32M I think that would have been a great spot for him until his next contract. And even though I am critical of Dak in terms of the upper elite pay category he is in, I recognize the kid is a good football player still. There are just some guys that can not lift their teams above their other deficiencies. And so far, I think Dak falls into that category, but there is still plenty of career to change this perception. That place where the Stafford, Rivers, Ryans, etc have lived. Guys who can put up individual statistical achievements, but still not win enough because the team around them wasn't strong enough. Then you have guys like Brady, Rodgers, and Wilson for example that win despite having bad deficiencies such as bad defenses, weak OL, poor weapons to work with, etc. They are so good and so clutch they can win with just about any personnel on the field. They wont always win the SB, but they are a perennial contender despite what the rest of the roster looks like. If I am paying a guy a cap killing contract, I want that guy to be my field general. Its easier said than done to get one of those guys clearly, so I get why Dallas has to pay what is in front of them too. Bringing this convo home to the Bills, I sincerely believe we have a QB in Josh Allen that is in that elite category of elevating his team beyond its deficiencies. I mean he just led us to 13-3 record (and lets be honest, should have been 14-2) despite fielding a defense that has no idea how to cover a TE, defense the middle of the field, cant win in the trenches, and struggles badly to defend the run.

Totally agree with this too

I should clarify, I wasn't trying to imply it was all on Dak. What I was referencing is that with a more affordable Dak, Dallas still wasn't fielding a very good team. The ability to rebuild that roster into a true SB contender now with Dak's contract just got that much harder. I think for me, I just look at 2019 too and see an 8-8 team that was relatively healthy all year and in the worst division in the NFL. And I ask myself had Wilson, Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Mahomes, or even the 2020 version of Josh Allen had been on that team in 2019 as the QB, would they still miss the playoffs or would they have won the division? And personally, I believe they win that division and make the playoffs with one of those guys. I totally get why they paid him though, I mean his stats merit the paycheck. But, I also feel his stats get inflated when they are down big in games and also against weaker competition, especially playing in that garbage division. But hey, I am happy for him...good for him for achieving his goals and getting paid. I just think that Dallas right now is going to have a hard time truly contending the next 4 years the way that team is made up and with other gaudy contracts like Cooper and Zeke there for part of that time.

1-3...my bad and you’re right. But they also really should have been 0-4 to start the season but Atlanta decided to forget the onside kick recovery rules and for some dumb reason seemed to think it had to go 10 yards before they could recover and didn’t recover the kick.

Nope it doesn’t correlate. If you look back, you will see most SB winners are not the leagues highest paid QBs at the time they won the SB. Just look at the last 10 to 20 years where QB contracts have been continuously getting bigger and largest parts of teams caps. Brady took less money for most of his career to help the team compete. Manning was cheaper in Denver, Wilson and Mahommes won on rookie deals, Flacco won before he got a big deal, etc etc. In the vast majority of SB champions, the QB at the time of that SB was not one of the highest paid QB’s in the league.

Dak led Cowboys were 1-4 and the only one win was because Atlanta choked again and decided to not even attempt to recover an onside kick attempt. Otherwise they would have been 0-5. As bad as the offense was after, they actually had a better record with Dalton. No one will claim Dalton is better option, so that’s not what I am saying. But...if they are 1-4 or 0-5 team with Dak not being a massive cap hit, how are they supposed to be a SB contender now WITH Dak being a major cap choker? I get why they paid him, I just don’t think Dak is going to be a guy who can carry a team when the cap issues restrict their ability to make the roster better around him. I have a feeling Dallas will be a perennial middle of the road team failing to hit expectations over those 4 years of Daks contract IMHO. They won’t suck enough to get premium draft picks and they won’t be good enough to challenge for a deep playoff run.

Yeah same. I mean he had a “solid” career ultimately, but the guy should have been special.

Dude I was just going to say the same thing. I will never understand why he didn’t get more of a chance either. I always said I feel like his career might have gone different had he not been drafted by the Lions and he was grossly mismanaged and never really given much chance to succeed or even play. Honestly Jeff George was probably one of the 10 most talented QBs to ever play the game. He just had the personality, likability, and mental game of Jay Cutler. If he was less of a douche he would have probably had a HOF career.

He’s not going to be cut because someone will trade for him. He is in demand, so trading for him insures you get him vs him being a FA. And his cost is going to be cheap in terms of trade value, so someone will more than likely pull the trigger instead of just waiting for him to be cut and hoping you can recruit him over other options. And where our roster is at right now, very hard for later round picks to make this roster, so I can see Beane trading day 3 pick for him IF he wants Ertz. And honestly I do think it makes a lot of sense. He’s a guy who can help us win now while also helping Knox continue to develop by learning from one of the best TE’s over the last decade. That being said, there are a lot of options available in FA and a few more like Ertz, Njoku, and OJ Howard that are probably available cheap in trade this offseason. So Ertz isn’t a “must” get either and we dont yet know Beanes preferred targets at TE.

People who don’t know much about football I would suspect. Pretty ridiculous to even think we would have cut Hyde.

In ten years, hes eclipsed 600 yards just twice, and never reached 900 yards mostly playing on pass happy offenses. He is a very good Redzone target, but hes never been a monster in the passing game overall. Heck, hes only broke 500 yards 3 times in 10 years. Not saying he would be a bad addition, just think there are more intriguing guys that are available in FA or possibly trade. I would first look at Everett in FA or kick the tires on sending a day 3 pick for either Ertz, Njoku, or Howard...neither of their teams have any negotiating power, especially since OJ is third on the depth chart and prob wont be back, Njoku is arguably 3rd now on the depth chart and not expected to be a Brown come week 1, and Ertz has his replacement already in place and out producing him...also not expect to be back with his team. So trade values on those guys will be way down, especially with a deep TE free agent class too.

The problem is they changed the kickoff rules that made an onside kick even MORE difficult to complete than it already was. That is the real issue, not that the onside needs to be easier, its that they made substantially less likely than it had been throughout NFL history with the changes to the kickoff. Personally, I don't hate this idea, but I think 4th and 15 is too easy. If they are going to go with a 4th and distance scenario, I think it should be more like 4th and 20 or 4th and 25. Maybe limit the defense from being able to line all their guys up down filed around the 25 yard mark and make them play a normal D formation with only the safeties allowed to line up deep. So I agree it should NOT be made to be so easy that it happens at too high of a rate, but it should also not be so hard that its super rare to convert.

Rudolph is an aging vet, but given their interest in Olsen last year, maybe that is what they want for Knox to learn from as well. I am not as excited for him, I mean in mostly playing in pass happy offenses, he has only eclipsed 600 yards twice in 10 seasons. He is a good Redzone threat though. Word is his initial interest is in playing for the Pats. Personally, I think the guy they will more likely go after is Gerald Everett. He is young enough with a skill set to be an impact player in all facets of the position. His stats are not big because he split time with another talented TE in an offense thats had 3 very good WR's almost at all times and Todd Gurley at his best. But I think he has a lot of upside if he was a featured TE in our offense. Guys not yet available as free agents, but could be cut or had in a trade are OJ Howard, Ertz, and Njoku. I think Beane will inquire about what it would take to land one of these 3 as well before they become a FA. The reason being that its going to be a LOT harder for day 3 picks to make this roster this year and I can easily see Beane flipping one for one of these guys. And make no mistake about it, the trade value of these guys is not very high due to injuries and lack of need for their teams. All 3 have guys in place to start at TE already, most of which are ahead of these guys on depth charts. Teams know they will likely cut them with the lower cap if they don't trade them. So I think all 3 could be had for a day 3 pick. Ertz is the only one whose played at a high level, but hes up there in age and battled injuries, so even he likely would go for a day 3 pick or no higher than a 4th rounder IMO. So thats my list: I think the FA they would target first is Everett. But I think Beane will also look to maybe trade some of later draft assets for one of those other guys too. I would personally be pretty excited about any of those 4. Rudolph wouldn't be a bad signing either, but I think he has less left in the tank than the other guys.

No reason people should crap on Jordan, he was cheering for and rooting for the Bills all playoffs. He loves Buffalo and the fan base. He's not a hater just because he's excited about Watt joining his team. And as a non- biased Bills fan...I will say 3 things: One, we couldn't afford to pay him and it was right decision not to pay him. Two, he played his ass off here and loved every minute of being a Bill and loved the fans. Three, our defensive line was not as good without him. Doesn't mean he isn't replaceable, and honestly losing Star hurt our DL more, but its not like we can say we got better with him leaving either. So wish the man well, glad he got the contract he wanted after working hard here for the Bills and the fans. He wanted to stay, but we just couldn't pay him what he was going to get from AZ.

Hard to say it was all about the money when he turned down offers for more money with teams who made the playoffs last year in Browns and Colts. I think that narrative can now be put to rest.

I am not opposed to it, I am just more concerned with other areas and having the cap space to make the most important upgrades. My biggest issue with DE is how much they cost to upgrade. I also think AJE is quite promising, and I would rather see him start opposite Hughes and let Addison rotate in. I also think we need a quality player at LB as I don't think Milano will be back. I would be happy to see him stay, but I just don't think Beane will be pay what Milano is going to look for. So I see a certain hole at DB opposite Tre and a probably hole at LB right now, with a major mystery at DT as we don't know what to except from Star at his age and missing a year. Where at DE, I see guys who got pressure on the QB and a young guy that should play a lot more snaps this year. Also, with Star back or some other Beef, guys like Jefferson can play their more suited position too and contribute to the rotation. Thats all I am saying really.

We dont have the cap room for this anymore. More pressing upgrades or holes to fill include: LB (Milano or someone else), DT, CB opposite Tre, TE, OL. We dont have the cap room to chase quality signings at DE and not be forced to fill in the other holes with average guys. Again, 6th in the NFL in QB pressures last year. But where do you think we ranked at defending the TE? How about stopping the run? How about the QB rating throwing at a DB not named Tre? How was our TE production? How about our run stopping? I will give you a hint...all considerably lower. Again, not saying that the pass rush couldn't benefit from an upgrade, but DE are not cheap, at least ones that are better than what we have for this next season. Look at how much money Watt got, and he didnt have more sacks than our own guys last year, he only had 5. Not to mention we have a young guy in AJE who we just invested a 2nd round pick into and started showing promise as the season wore on. We cant afford to pay a lot of money to get a couple more sacks a season. People are obsessed with sack totals, yet that is literally just a few plays over an entire season. We got pressure on the QB last year, what we need to do now is stop the run, cover a TE, and cover the receivers not being covered by Tre. Yeah, its a valid concern until anyone sees what kind of shape he is in.

Well we drafted a DE in the 2nd round last year who started earning more playing time and showed progress and potential. And we got dominated by KC not because of lack of pass rush, but because we could not remotely cover Kelce or Hill and were manhandled in the trenches. People dont realize how much the interior DL impacts the ability for DE's to get to the QB. When you dont have to double team in the middle, it allows for more blockers on the edge to negate the pass rush. We were frequently dominated in the middle of our D all year.

Yeah, but what does he have left at his age after missing a year? Thats my concern to be honest. I would rather sign someone where we can rotate the DT's in effectively then just lean on Star at this point.

My bad, you are right it was 2 years in Hou as OC which was 2008, and 2009. Here are some points though I think you are missing: Houston was 3rd in the league on offense the first year Kyle left. They didn't miss a beat without him there. Slaton ran for 1300 yards and caught 50 passes in 2008 with 13 TDs, so not sure why you mock that, we would kill for that kind of production. Granted, he was injured on and off in 2009 and opened the door for Arian Foster to emerge later part of the season, so his stay as production back was short lived. Although it was fun seeing his name again as he won me 2 Fantasy SB's in 2008 haha. So hard to say what kind of impact he had on Houston when he had a good ground game, Andre Johnson and Schaub who was a pretty productive passer in his time in Houston. Then in Washington, there was only one year where the offense was one of the top 5 in the league, and it was RG3 rookie year where he took the league by storm. But Kyle would be fired along with his dad just one season later after they ran RG3 into the ground and mishandled his body and injuries which pretty much RG3 was never able to find that form again. And in Atlanta he too inherited a top 10 offense already and only had one season where the offense ranked noticeably higher than usual when he finished 2nd in the league in yards and they reached the SB. A SB which they had in the bag until his terrible decisions cost them the ability to close the game out and gave the Pats time to mount a crazy comeback. When I say building an offense, I mean taking over a personnel group and turning around the offense. I could walk into KC today and be the OC there and have a top 5 offense because the pieces are in place. It doesn't automatically make me some great coordinator and great HC candidate. So what do we really have...2 years in Houston as an OC with a pretty talented cast on offense where the team didn't miss a beat the year after he left. One great year in 4 in Washington where RG3 took the league by storm before how they handled him ran him into the ground and his career never recovered. A short stop in Atlanta taking over a potent offense with one great season on his resume there that ended in blowing a SB on his play calling decisions. So again, yeah, I have pause with Kyle with or without the SB gaffes. I am not saying he's not a coach on the rise, or even that he is a bad coach. This whole convo started when someone propped him up as top tier coach. You can do a lot worse than Kyle for sure, but I also think it is way premature to say he is a top 10 coach. And our dialogue probably comes across as if I hate Kyle or something, which I honestly don't. I am just making the case that I think its pre-mature to anoint him as a top 10 guy right now. I think 10-14 is a fair spot, where I personally have him 14. I would for instance rather have Flores who I have watched get the most out of his players in his first 2 years in Miami and over achieve with a below average roster. I named him since you had him last on your list. None the less, enjoying the dialogue, cheers bud

Why all this pressure to get a DE? We were 6th in QB pressures and second only to Pitt in speed to getting to the QB last season. WE NEED BEEF. We were often dominated in the trenches and need to beef up the interior DL rotation. We also need a LB if Milano isn’t coming back, especially one who can cover a TE and middle of the field. We have higher priorities than DE. I am not saying we couldn’t benefit from an upgrade to the pass rush, but it’s not our biggest problem on defense and we have a young player who showed promise there that was a 2nd round pick last year. Beef on DL, LB, starting DB opposite Tre, and stopping the run are bigger needs and we have limited space to work with. But all I see on this board is people focusing just on getting a pass rushing DE. If all we do is add a different DE to this D and replace Addison, our defense won’t be any better.

No disrespect, but you are over dramatizing his resume a bit and glamorizing it like leaving out being fired, and having two jobs last one season. For example, Houston he was only the OC one season on a potent offense built by Gary Kubiak. But you just gave Kyle credit for that in your post. In Washington, it was his offensive guru father that was the HC and you just have Kyle all the credit and left out they all got fired after just 3 seasons. He didn’t have any real notable success until 2016 where the Falcons were top rated offense the year they went to the SB, but let’s be real, he walked into a pretty potent offense already. And I’ve said before, I’m not saying he’s not a good offensive mind. Being a offensive guru is not the same thing of being a good HC who has to make game decisions decisions. And on the biggest stage he floundered twice with very controversial choices. And again, no disrespect, enjoying the convos. But putting the blame on the Falcons defense is kind of ridiculous considering the Falcons defense should not have even been on the field. He stupidly kept throwing (incomplete too) and stopping the clock while up huge instead of chewing clock and running the ball when they had a really good ground game too. The only reason Pats had the time to make a comeback is because Falcons kept giving them the ball back quickly in the fourth without taking any time off the clock. It was so absurdly stupid I was screaming at the TV the whole fourth quarter and I’m not even a Falcons fan. His decision making in the Niners SB didn’t do him any favors or even anything to really change the concerns about his decision making either. So yeah, one year in Hou, one year in Cle, three years then fired in Was snd a blown SB in Atlanta were to me a reason to have some pause. And take out the SB collapse and not a lot changes for me. He has plenty of time to cement himself as a great HC, but for me, I remain skeptical or cautious on anointing him as a great HC. You said 6-7 guys max you would take over him. Off the top of my head, I am at about double that of guys I’d hire as HC before I would take Kyle. I’ve got Kyle right about 14th, although admittedly a couple are close calls like him and McVay for example. So I’d say a ranking of 10th to 14th is a fair range for him. In no particular order: McD, Reid, Belichick, Carrol, Harbaugh, Flores, LaFleur, Payton, Vrabel, Reich, Arians, Tomlin and McVay.

All fair and good points, and yes I would agree Kyle is ahead of Kingsbury. As far as Texas Tech goes...how many years did the Saints not make the playoffs with one of the greatest QB's in history? It takes more than a QB, and Texas Tech isn't exactly a powerhouse school and the overall rosters were not very good outside Mahomes. If he was the HC at a major recruitment school and had Mahomes, then fine, I would say his college record is concerning. I am no Klingsbury fan, don't really have much of an opinion on him at all to be honest. I just think some people (not you, but others) have been overly harsh on him because he didn't win more at Texas Tech and I just don't see that as very significant reason to write him off. But I am still also skeptical of Kyle Shannahan TBH. I would have never hired him after that Atlanta travesty in the SB personally. Not like he built that offense, he inherited a potent offensive roster there. Then to watch him choke away a game like that on a team notorious for choking was just something that would have given me pause as a GM. The 49er SB did nothing to erase those concerns either, at least not for me.