Alphadawg7

Spot on. Total domination in the trenches

Coleman was wide open deep for a TD on that sack

At least we get the ball first in the 2nd half…oh wait…

You gotta be kidding me. How is every Raven just wide open everywhere

Well this is what we knew was coming at some point. Once more film was out there on this offense teams were going to find some ways to disrupt it. So this is that first real test for Brady, can he make the adjustments now. Same for Babich, both these coordinators need to figure this out.

he already caught the record earlier when Kyle Hamilton tackled him for a short gain on the first drive

his first one was, each one since has added to it

Just play our game. Stay calm here and answer

Welp…

Well we did and Kincaid dropped it

Kincaid has got to catch that

So all off season we had this terrible roster, Beane should be held accountable or fired, etc. Now suddenly we can win games with the inept and pathetic QBs of the past with this roster? Lol this board never ceases to deliver entertainment.

After 140 pages of all this 2 sided chatter...its really much much much simpler to determine the validity of the OP's actual thread. His thread is titled: "I am really starting to love this WR room. We quietly got better." So there is one simple question that only needs to be asked: Going into Baltimore Sunday, which WR group do you want to see on the field this Sunday to give us the best chance to win the game? A) Last years group of Diggs, Davis, Shakir, Harty, and Sherfield B) This years group of Shakir, Coleman, Hollins, Samuel, and MVS It really is that simple in terms of the context of this threads actual point. And from my point of view, this is an obvious answer based on our first 3 weeks.

I still think Beane will look to a deal earlier to get about more a discount though., but of course it takes two to tango in that regard.

I agree with you on that, but that is not what Gunner is saying and some others who keep very specifically stating winning on the outside, one on one, down the sideline where the defender can use the sideline as another defender. Again I agree with what you just said here and that is why I said there is more way to win on the "outside" than is being discussed such as using size and positioning (back shoulder throws are one of the hardest plays in the NFL to defend for example), not starting from the outside and still attacking the boundaries, and starting from the outside and attacking the middle. Where I am saying I feel like an over fixation is occurring is in this very specific example of down the sideline in one on one that keeps getting brought up. And quite frankly, I personally already trust Coleman is capable of going up and making the catch over a defender in a one on one scenario. I would rather have a guy who is big, soft hands, with body control and knows how to his body to adjust and go up to get the balls in those one on one deep shots where there is a bigger margin or error of where the QB can put the ball. As opposed to a guy who is dependent on just burning his defender then relying on the QB to make an accurate pass that doesn't over throw him and does not come up short allowing the defender to erase the separation and turn it back into a contested catch scenario, especially if that WR doesn't have the size and physicality to have the advantage in a contested catch situation. And you can see the many deep shots to a wide open Diggs last year where Allen sailed the ball and flat out missed him or threw it short and resulted in an incomplete or interception. In a one on one matchup on the sideline, I personally prefer the big target with soft hands who has a big catch radius on those deep shots more than just a speedster guy more dependent on both beating his man and the QB throwing an accurate strike in order to complete the play. And while we definitely have not yet seen a lot of it, we have seen 2 plays from Coleman that are promising in this way with his week 1 sideline catch and his crosser TD where he torched his 1 on 1 matchup for his first TD. We have also seen Shakir make teams pay down the seam, Kincaid make plays this year and last year from the middle out on the boundaries, etc. Not to mention we have seen MVS get wide open deep twice but Allen just miss him bad. So while we have not been truly tested much in this manner, I don't think it would be fair to assume we just can't do it either based on some things we have seen so far.

Dont get me wrong, I could personally care less. I am just more talking about all this focus leading up to this game and how this is a big test for the Bills and how the media, and even the pessimistic crowd around here, always change that narrative after the games. Just like how a lot of people picked us to lose to Miami week 2 and then after we embarrassed them its now that the Dolphins just suck even though they have since had to play without Tua. Jags too...heading into the season and even that game it was all about the Jags being dangerous needing the win, how they have our number, etc. Then we blow them out and its well they just suck. So I don't think it will be any different if we decisively beat the Ravens is all with people citing their 1-3 record. And again, none of this is important by any means, just more of an observation. But mark my words...this board will be insufferable this week if we lose.

No disrespect, but this just really feels like its being over blown here. And I already know you are going to hit the disagree button on this, and that is fine, but this may be the single most over focused talking point I have seen on this subject. It honestly starting to feel like this something some of you want to hold on to because its the lone thing anyone can say we haven't been tested on yet in regards to those who have been more critical of the WR room. And I do agree, we haven't really been tested in this fashion...but I don't agree that its this end all be all piece of the offense that without it the offense will struggle or fail in big moments. I have watched KC and Pats build 2 dynasties not having that big play sideline guy. Even when KC had Hill, they predominantly did his damage on short throws across the middle that turned into big plays with YAC than they did just throwing sideline bombs. And when they did go deep to Hill, it wasn't down the sidelines and almost always over the middle. Look at the 13 second game...Hill busted that long TD on us to go ahead with just over a minute left in the game on a short crossing route. Kelce and Hill made plays in those 13 seconds over the middle. They scored the winning TD on a corner throw to the TE Kelce. Futhermore, our own attack was Davis catching TD strikes over the middle as well. I am not saying having the ability to win deep along the side line has no value...but you guys talk it up like its going to sink the offense if its not a key part of our offense. And FWIW, I watched Coleman do just fine on his lone shot down the sideline...I also watched him torch man coverage on his 3rd snap for an easy TD this past week. So he has at least shown potential to be able to make these plays in those moments. FWIW: Josh Allen stats against man coverage are filthy.

This game kind of feels like a no win type situation for the Bills in terms of "proving" anything this week. What I mean is all the people saying this is a tough game now are going to change their tune if the Bills win in decisive fashion again and point to the Ravens then 1-3 record and say well they just must not be any good (like they did after we smashed Miami and Jags) rather than look at the Bills as proving they are this good. At the same time, if we lose a tough road game on a short week while missing 3 of our best defensive players I am sure there will be a crowd that says points and says the Bills were a product of their schedule and not that good after all. And we already know what this board will be like if heaven forbid we lose a game in general.

I liked the Dorian pick when we made it, and I have liked what I have seen from him thus far. But I need to see more than 3 games before anyone starts talking about him starting over Milano when Milano is back. I don't know what the contract details are of Milano are, but I would think if Dorian does keep playing at a high level it is going to make Milano's future here murky at the very least. He is on the wrong side of 30, injuries are becoming an issue, and is more expensive.

Im not against adding talent, every team always can add more talent. But I do worry about disrupting chemistry, so I am less comfortable going after a guy who is used to being a priority and plugging him into an offense designed to not prioritize anyone and wants its players to run clear outs, block, etc. I was just saying you were stating you don't trust rookies to make contested catches but then you were propping up Rice who as a rookie made the plays and helped KC win the SB. Just because Coleman is a rookie doesn't mean he can't be a reliable guy to make the contested catches come playoff time is all I am saying.

Im out on Daboll. He has been always allergic to running the football. He even cost himself a win against the Bills last year over it. You are on the 1 yard line, final play of the game, your backup QB is playing who has not been known for great vision in Tyrod, and your best player on the field is Saquan Barkley. What does Daboll do...drop TT back and throw over the middle, not even give TT a play where he can roll out and run it in if the pass wasn't there. Just straight bet the game on TT's arm who isn't very tall to throw over the trenches for his one shot. That was the most Daboll thing ever. When he was here it was maddening how stubborn he could be and called games it felt more like for his ego than smart football decisions at times. Would I take Daboll over Dorsey...100 times over. But if Brady leaves, Daboll isn't the guy I think that would be the right fit to come back. Honestly, one of the biggest differences through the first 3 weeks this year for me is how in sync it feels like McD and both is coordinators are. Like for the first time in McD's tenure here I think this is true. So if Brady gets plucked, I think it will be very important to find another OC that is on the same page with McD like Brady and Babich have really been thus far. One good thing about next year though is we have the draft capital and assets to make a move to get a guy they covet if they want.

And of course...all of that could change for us still too, this is only a small sample size of 3 weeks. If defenses figure out how to stifle this offense between having more film and stiffer opposition, we may then need to start seeing Coleman take on a much bigger role late in the season and playoffs the way Rice started to do last year. But so far it at least appears to be less of a need in comparison to Rice and what they need from him in KC this year. And hopefully it does stay that way as I think we can all agree its better for Josh when he can play this way and focus on just hitting the open guy as opposed to having to focus on a specific target.

Just to clear it up, the context of my post was that poster had just been saying he doesn't trust rookies to make the plays come playoff time, then he just propped up Rice the following post. So my point was Rice was a rookie #1 WR last year when the Chiefs won the Super Bowl. Here is the thing...Rice has to take that step. Kelce was falling off last year until he found a fountain of youth pill in the playoffs and this year is no different. Brown is out, and Worthy has been literally irrelevant outside of a handoff and one broken play all in week 1. But here, we don't "need" Coleman to take that kind of a production step when we are spreading the ball around so effectively and those people are making the plays when getting the targets. So I think it is highly unlikely that Coleman, or any Bills WR, takes as significant of a statistical jump as we will see Rice take this year. Especially now that Pacheco is also out a long period of time. Rice is there entire offense right now so I think its quite likely he will see a pretty significant stats jump this year.

Gotcha, I misunderstood your context when you said as you expected, so apologies for the confusion on that. And my main point is isn't about how a player would play in another circumstance, it is only about how those players play in this circumstance. For example, how relevant would Julian Edelman had been if he did not play with Brady and NE? Probably not very, if at all, yet he was a valuable piece for those teams. It is why I have made a similar case for Brock Purdy where people kept minimizing what he was doing saying its just because of Shannahan's system. Meanwhile their expensive investments into Jimmy G and Trey Lance were not able to replicate the same kind of production and results Purdy is. Does it matter that Purdy wouldn't be "as good" elsewhere or just that he is that good where he is at? And that is where I land. The GM has literally just one job and that is to put the players on the roster that fit what the coaches want to do. Its what made teams like NE and Pats into dynasties as well...and right now, its pretty hard to argue that Beane has not done the same thing with the players around Josh right now in regards to what Brady is asking them to do. So while a lot of people are fixating on what they perceive certain players "can't" do, they are totally missing how great they are doing at what they can do and are being asked to do. And to me, that is far more important than anything else.

I already trust Shakir and Kincaid in these type of “big” moments and I think Coleman is showing potential he can eventually be too. And the difference is for me is there is more than one way to win outside, and that includes not starting lined up on the outside, using size and body control, etc. So while you specifically stated winning on the outside in these moments, where my view comes is I am less worried about guys needing to win in the way you are saying on the outside and just having guys win in general in big moments. For example, in KC Kelce has been that guy in those moments…Gronk and Edelman were in those moments for Brady, etc. So I don’t see it as big moments come down to “winning outside” and more that in big moments someone needs to be depended on somewhere to win, and give me guys I trust to win in big moments in general.