Alphadawg7

That is not in any way a logical argument. We made the playoffs with Kelvin Benjamin as our #1 WR and not only was he not a #1 WR anymore, he wasn't even a #3 or #4 WR and was cut after 3 games in KC the next season and never made another roster again. Tim Tebow made the playoffs as a starting QB, didn't mean he was a starting caliber QB in the NFL. So saying he is a #2 because a team can make the playoffs with him as a #2 WR is not evidence he is a #2 WR. If Davis got hurt on the first play of the game week 1 for the season...Bills were still making the playoffs.

Personally, I think the concerns with Davis today exceed just the low catch rate and his drop rate. And focusing just on his catch rate is missing the bigger picture with Davis in terms to the concerns heading into this offseason versus the optimism around him heading into last years offseason after the KC game. His situational awareness has been problematic at times, including not getting his feet down in bounds where it should have been routine catch. Despite an expanded role in the offense as the full time #2 for the season, he didn't really show any growth and his production wasn't much more than it had been. I mean 12% of his total yards on the season came on one single play against Pitt. He appears to have a limited route tree and has not shown consistency in getting open. These things have been both shown by All-22 and mentioned even by an opposing defender. And I question his mental toughness when things don't go his way personally. There have been clear shifts in his body language when he doesn't make a play he should have made and seems to get dejected and affect his confidence in those games. Furthermore - Davis has a "reputation" of making big plays and coming up big in playoffs. But, is that really accurate? I think its exaggerated and more built off the lore of the KC playoff game and a few other games because its not happened very much over his 3 year career. His big plays, and especially big games, are far and in between during the regular season where his production in a pass happy offense opposite an elite WR has been underwhelming. He only had 1 game with 100 yards this year during the regular season but had 10 games with less than 60 yards. And he has only had 2 big games out of 7 in the playoffs (KC last year, Miami this year). The other 5 games were minimal games where he wasn't much of a factor. I think a "lower end" description of him as a #2 is a bit generous description...I think he is more of a solid #3 WR forced to act as a #2 due to lack of options. What I do know, is Davis right now being the #2 focal point of the passing attack was not enough for Josh and this offense this year. I think that was pretty clear and we now face two paths this offseason: We are either have to find an upgrade to Davis via draft, FA, or trade allowing Davis to be more of a quality #3 guy in the pass game rather than a low end #2... Or we need to upgrade the other weapons around Diggs and Davis so our passing attack isn't so overly dependent on Davis. That would mean someone emerging at the slot like Shakir or bringing in someone who can be a legit threat from the slot, and also getting Knox and RB's more involved in the passing game. First and foremost, they need to upgrade the OL so we can have the freedom to use Knox and the RB's more in the passing game and less as extra blockers. But pertaining specifically to Davis, this offseason needs to either upgrade from Davis or it needs bigger threats outside of him so we can minimize the dependence on Davis opposite Diggs. 33rd in yards, but 12% of his total yards came on one 98 yard play against Pitt. So the 33rd in yards lacks the context to show in his inconsistency. I mean he had 10 games under 60 yards as a #2 WR on a pass happy offense while getting to play opposite a top 5 WR in Diggs and on a team who didn't have a lot of other weapons to throw to. Davis right now feels a lot more like a solid #3 WR forced to play #2 because we don't have anyone better.

Anyone expecting Von to be himself out the gate would be foolish. But at the same time, its not impossible either that Von could still be good for us this year assuming he remains healthy. But admittedly, expecting someone turning 34 in this next season to be who they were is already a tall ask, asking them to do it after an ACL tear is even a bigger ask. That being said, its a lot different than Tre. With a CB, the offense directly attacks that player in the passing game. With a DE, they just want to prevent him from disrupting the play. So its quite reasonable that Von will still garner some reasonable attention from the opposing team that could benefit the other players on the DL in their opportunities to disrupt the play. So Von just being out there can still positively impact the team, where as a CB who is slow to react and doesn't have the explosiveness back yet like Tre dealt with this year is a much bigger liability for the defense.

The issue has been that Fraziers defenses have continued to lay down and look totally out classed in our playoff losses, especially the past 3 years. He has given up 107 points and 1403 yards just in our last 3 playoff losses. Those 3 teams would all lose the next week and combine for just 56 points and 1034 yards in those games, substantially less than when they played against our D just one week earlier. In fact we gave up more than double those points to those same teams, and we had MUCH higher ranked defenses those years too. And when you see those juggernaut offenses get slowed down and lose after having their way with Buffalo, it is hard to fault the FO feeling like our defense needs to get better. And the most frustrating part about it was that our defense had a lot of talent on it, so it felt like making an improvement in a specific area would take that D to the next level. So I have a hard time faulting Beane for believing defenses improvements would be what helped get us over the top, especially with an already potent offense where Allen was still ascending and expected to keep getting better. Plus this year, there were quite a bit more expectations from Gabe Davis who really put up a rather disappointing season, and so much so that there are real questions if he is even capable of being a quality #2 WR or better suited to be a #3. But lets also not forget, we have spent many valuable draft picks on offense as well along the way, it wasn't totally ignored like a lot of people seem to want to believe. Investing a first into Diggs, and multiple 2nd's and 3rds on OL, RB's, and TE. And even looking at the drafting of Cook and Shakir last year. Our first year OC struggled to involve them most the season in the game plan. And with Cook, they struggled more to use him in the way they envisioned which was as a receiving weapon for Josh. Then they traded for Hines to also help in the passing game as a weapon for Josh...and again, Dorsey couldn't get him involved. So I also can't fault Beane for a first ever OC not being able to better utilize the players on the roster. However, the top heavy investment into D for me is more a result of Fraziers Defenses getting embarrassed in the playoff losses ending our season.

A lot worse QBs have won SBs with talented defenses and an array of weapons on offense. Jets are a legit SB contender with anyone as good as Carr or better. Obviously Rodgers gives them even better chance, by Carr would give them a longer term solution

Carr to Jets would not be ideal. Major upgrade at QB without having to pay $50M to Rodgers and give up 2 first round picks. Carr I think helps them as a team a lot more than Rodgers does when you look at it past one year. Carr is going to be a bargain for someone being no draft picks are going to be surrendered to get him and his price tag will be palatable. And the last place I want to see him is on a team with a lock down defense and a lot of young talented offensive weapons. Carr will not have to be great for that team to be very dangerous. If he can just be solid, then Jets are going to be a real problem.

Beane said trying him out at safety is possibility and that is something they saw as a potential move when they drafted him.

Disagree...he was a focal point of the defense, and we were in the midst of an all in super bowl push. And we still don't know if he will be back yet or not despite this thread. And the FO back then saw Edmunds in our future plans, and still might. There was no reason to dump him back then and take a key player in Fraziers defense off the field while we were pushing for a SB these past 2 years.

49ers LB Al Azeez Al-Shaair could be the ideal replacement. He is a free agent and will be cheaper than Edmunds and does a lot of the same things Edmunds can do in this defense. He has been overshadowed in SF by the elite Warner and also Greenlaw, and he could be a break out player as he goes somewhere else now as a FA. My top 2 wish list Free Agents right now that are not OL are Al-Shaair and RB D'Onta Foreman. Both will be affordable guys to replace both Edmunds and Devin and have the potential to be as good or better than who they are replacing.

Except they absolutely are. So there’s that…

I don't love the idea of gambling Allen and Diggs prime years on an inexperienced OC But I am more comfortable giving him another year than I am giving Frazier another year who has shown consistently his defenses are faring much worse than other DC's with less talented defenses are against the same common opponents in the playoffs...and its every year. But..Dorsey may not have been "terrible" this year, but he certainly has a lot to work on that he struggled with this year. We had 2 legit downfield WR's on the team in Diggs and Davis only. The rest of the roster was basically slot WR's, yet Dorsey kept trying to force this air it out downfield attack when we were not built for that. And that includes a weak OL that can't hold their protections long enough for Josh to comfortably get the ball down field without first having to scramble. We drafted a RB for his receiving skills in Cook, yet we don't throw him the ball all that much. Additionally, he is an under sized RB whose is best suited for working in space, yet we frequently run draw plays with him up the middle. Lacked consistency in trying to establish the run. His situational awareness was a weak spot, as was his redzone play calling. Our WR's were relied on to win their one on one routes too much rather than scheming to get guys open the way teams like KC do on the regular. Our offense was too predictable and was lacking in adjustments. He gets more of a benefit of the doubt being a first year OC...but he has a lot to improve.

I mean hard to see this as anything but a great move by Denver and great place to go for Rex if he wants to coach again. One, there is no denying he was a great DC. Two, Denver is giving him a very good foundation to walk into with that defense. And he is fun, players love him, and it will be good for the league

Hard to say...not likely with Frazier, he is who he is and sadly he is going to be hear again this year with his flawed approach. Dorsey on the other hand has been learning on the job. I hope to god he watched the Super Bowl and realizes he needs to study both teams in how to be creative and play the rosters strengths. We didn't see him grow at all this year during the season, lets hope he spends the whole offseason studying.

Lol, did you really just spend time to write that? One…he is not MY defensive coordinator, nor yours. None of us are part of the team nor own it. And who cares, him being the current DC doesn’t make him the right DC for the job.

There are a lot of reasons to be dissatisfied with Frazier. And that includes giving up an average of 150 yards rushing per game in the playoff losses. But most importantly the 107 points and 1403 total yards the last 3 losses is the biggest issue. But the 450 yards of rushing were a part of that problem and our inability to get off the field on 3rd and 4th downs.

Giving up an average of 148 yards per game is not an issue? Sorry, and no disrespect, but pointing out the QB's got yards is not an excuse. I don't care who is running the ball, the point is they ran the ball and extended drives frequently against. We are talking about teams who were 16th, 16th and 28th in the league in rushing the last 3 years...those rankings include everyones rushing yards, including the QB. What excuses are being made against Cincy...ranked 28th in the league and missing 3 starting OL? The point is, why are these teams having more success against Frazier running the ball as a whole than they did all season? Why do we have to keep searching for ways to make excuses for Fraziers defense failing in so many ways in these playoff losses? And honestly, there should be even less excuse to let the QB run the ball on us given we have to defend Allen every day in practice and showed success defending someone much more dangerous as Lamar. IMHO, he doesn't get a pass on allowing an average of 148 yards a game these past 4 playoff exits.

If Bijan lasts to 27, its hard to imagine any draft scenario where he is not the BPA at pick 27. And with Devin likely gone, RB is also a need. So I too would have a hard time seeing them pass on Bijan at 27. I am all for BPA at 27 if he is BPA, the last thing I want to see us do is reach. So the people who think it has to be OL no matter what, well as much as I also want to improve our OL, I would hate to see us reach and pass up a better player elsewhere for the sake of reaching for need. That being said, I think Bijan will be gone before 27 anyway, so I doubt this scenario happens.

Posted this in another thread and thought I would add it here as well. Here is Leslie Fraziers run defense in our last 4 consecutive playoff losses: 182 yards - Houston was 9th in rushing 114 yards - Chiefs were 16th in rushing 141 yards - Chiefs were again 16th in rushing 155 yards - Bengals were 28th in rushing and missing 3 starting OL Average: 148 yards - Average rank of the rushing offenses: 17th None of these teams were a great rushing team, the highest ranked team was 9th by Houston because of Watson. The rest were 16th - 28th in the NFL in rushing just gashing us. And when you look at the last couple of years after investing so heavy into the DL, especially where we fielded the #1 and #2 ranked defenses in the league, it's even more concerning. Then this year gets even worse considering Cincy was missing 3 starting OL in that game and it was at home in bad weather where our team allegedly is supposed to have an advantage.

THIS...times 1000. 🙌

Hard disagree. We do need to learn to be like them offensively. Its a night and day difference watching their offensive play calling and designs that scheme guys open...not only open...wide open. The two TD passes to Toney and then Sky Moore in the SB were the exact same routes on opposite sides, and both were wide open and untouched...and both were plays they ran many times for scores or first downs all year. Those guys are wide open because of the overall play design, not just their route. Or look at those shovel passes almost like runs up the middle they do with guys like Kelce on down and short or near endzone. These plays have a high degree of success and its do to the creativity they have built into their offense. We had defenders talking about the limited route trees our guys run, or knowing exactly where we were going on certain plays. They have said that both offensively and defensively. Kelce last year humiliated Frazier on National TV saying if he plays it like that again hit me on the seem its wide open...and that is exactly what happened to get the FG in 13 seconds. Everything we do is so vanilla and the opponents keep coming up with answers to counter us. This year, our offense felt like it was lacking hard in creativity, situational awareness, schemes to get guys open, or even just general best use of personnel. We have a RB drafted to catch passes and get into space in Cook, yet we don't throw him many balls and frequently run him up the middle instead. We trade for Hines, like the 12th most expensive RB in the league and don't even try to incorporate him into the offense. So...sorry, I absolutely agree we need to be more like KC...not saying copy what they do, but we need to inject a massive heaping of better creativity, better schemes, better situational awareness, and better use of personnel on both sides of the ball.

Classy...nope. Hilarious troll job...💯

Why start a thread that has zero chance to happen? What is the point of the thread? Might as well start a thread Bills trade Morse and a 7th round pick for Justin Jefferson then because that is just as realistic as this nonsense. The only "dawgturd" here is this utterly pointless thread. Maybe next time just start the 97th thread on how we need to upgrade our OL, still would be better than this. This entire thread is utterly absurd. No it wasn't thought through lmao. Maybe we can sign Jim Kelly back and trade him for 3 first round picks next.

LOL, no one is trading for Saffold or Morse. Why would Packers trade for expensive, old, and concussion prone Morse so we can draft a Center instead of just drafting the center themselves? I don’t mind people proposing trade ideas, but drives me nuts when people post trades that make absolutely no sense to the team they propose we trade with. At least make an attempt at a realistic draft and trade scenario rather than something that has no basis in reality. Otherwise what’s the difference of this or proposing a trade where we dump contracts to a team and get some elite stud back that’s untouchable? Both equally silly.

Dr. Dre, Eminem, Snoop, Kendrick Lamar, and Mary J Blige