Alphadawg7

I don't know what made me more sad...remembering that the unqualified joke of a FO back then brought in dying corpses like Young, Bush, and Leinart during their career farewell tours or the reminder we took Whitner over Ngata. I feel like I need a shower just thinking about this grossness lol

Just some honest feedback to your point above - when you keep making the same argument/points to people who differ in your opinion, you are gonna keep getting the same responses back. I mean you are in every WR thread and even starting threads to just say all the same stuff thats been beaten to death already. And lets be real, all this WR outrage is also coming off a season where the offense was historically great as a whole and appears, at least on paper, to be better today than it was when we last saw them on the field. Keon has a year under his belt now, Palmer is a better down field presence than either The Ghost of Cooper was or Mack, our guys are healthy in Kincaid, Keon, and Samuel, and that was just the first full year under Brady. But I also get it, I was pounding the drum to get Donte Thornton all offseason who went 1 pick before us after we traded up. I can assure you there isn't one fan that would have been upset to see us take a vertical threat WR. The difference for me and many others is, we aren't sitting here coming of a historically great season offensively thinking because we didn't grab some Day 3 guy in a weak draft class overall for WR that we are screwed either. I mean I was I bummed to see us trade a 2nd time with Chi to get back to 109 just to see "my guy" Thornton go to the Raiders at pick 108. Watching Embedded its clear it wouldn't have mattered, they showed they made the move to go get Deone before the Donte pick was even done. But rather than freak out, I was still excited about Deone who filled another need (size) I also had been clamoring for. He was a guy coming into this past season I thought was headed to be a first round pick before injuries held him back. If you don't want to keep getting the same responses back...maybe jump into some non-WR discussions...because lets be real, there hasn't been a "new" point brought up on either side about WR's in a long time. Just my 2 cents

Ok…so seeing Vince Young and Matt Leinart on this list legit blew my mind as I totally forgot their career farewell tours had a stop here. Who would have thought watching the absolute epic 2005 National Championship game with Young, Leinart, and Bush that they would all make stops here as shells of their former college glory on farewell tours of disappointing careers.

This isn't baseball where some HR hitter leaves and suddenly that team loses a bunch of HR's unless they speciffically bring people in to make up for them because those are individual feats, not team feats. This is a team sport where TD's are a function of the 11 guys on the field doing their jobs. Just because a player leaves does not automatically mean the team is no longer capable of still scoring those TD's that "departed". When we step on the field, there will be 11 guys on it just like last year. Our best players are all returning and we lost the Ghost of Cooper and Mack Hollins who combined to avg just 4.3 rec per game. I am pretty sure between Keon healthy again and no longer splitting time, Kincaid and Samuel healthy, the additions of Palmer and Moore that we can safely say the group we are putting on the field is capable of making up for that minimal lost production and the TD's too. And as far as the rushing TD's...we have a great OL, a tank of a QB who is the most dangerous runner at QB in the redzone maybe in league history, and a great RB room...of course that is going to result in a lot of ground TD's, and it should, as its a much lower risk and higher percentage play then trying to throw in a short field deep in the redzone. Having at least 30 scores on the ground and 30 passing is like every team and coaches wet dream. So for me...I am not personally concerned about what left or how many of those we scores came on the ground.

Come on bro lol...you started the discussion because you disagree with an opinion I shared (which is fine and fair). Then you continued to keep it going (also fair and kind of the point to a discussion), but got to the point it made me quit the discussion because it was starting to get silly and off the rails. And I left it with an agree to disagree as there wasn't really anywhere else for the convo to go. But now you come back with this sort of poorest me post? Lol...no offense, but thats a bit much I will give you this though, this was pretty funny and I legit laughed, so kudos on that

Haha the comments have TSW vibes

Bahaha still reeling from your blunder yesterday I see 😂. The desperation and free rent I have in your head makes my nipples dance. Never change boo 😘

Yeah, and if they do get a couple more stops that means more drives and scoring opportunities for the offense. And like we agree, totally reasonable to not expect another season of the fewest negative plays in history. But lets say Josh gets sacked 15 more times this year, that is just 15 plays over a course of the season...not even one a game. So it doesn't mean they were all drive ending sacks, if any. Sack on first down or 2nd down and we can still pick up the first and keep the drive alive and go on to score. So even with a reasonably expected regression to some degree in the fewest negative plays category, it doesn't necessarily mean it will significantly impact our PPG, if even at all. Now add in the aspect the defense hopefully getting off the field a couple more times a game and putting the ball back in Josh's hands and potentially with better field position, we very well could see our scoring go up even above our historic scoring season last year. Im really excited to see this team on the field. All of this is speculation until the games are played, and we have a lot of young players who will be expected to contribute early or take a step this year, so nothing is assured. But today, before we see it on the field, this feels like the most talented roster that maybe Josh has had to date top to bottom. Still won't be an easy path though, Ravens got some people in the draft I would have preferred to see go elsewhere. KC is still gonna be tough too, especially with Rice back.

Yet I just did now didn't I. But hey, keep trying to take the convo to the muck just because we don't agree. Hope that serves you well bud ✌️

Lol...lets just agree to disagree because this is getting silly at this point. I mean you want to ignore the known data, which is disparaging to your argument that shows 2 of the WRs are fringe roster guys, Diggs season was worse than 2022, and the WR2 is not a starting caliber WR2...to instead use the make believe expectations of that 2023 squad we already know never happened. No disrespect, but I stick to known information and make educated guesses and opinions on what we know. And based on what we know, the information leads me to the opinion that to win the SB this year, the 2025 group gives us the better chance than the 2023 group, and its who I would roll with, and its not a tough decision for me.

Definitely fair to not expect the same historical level in terms of fewest negative plays. If I was to make a counter point, it would be that it doesn't also mean you should by default expect a significant reversal either. Regarding our TO differential, I think the bigger concern for me is how dependent our defense was on getting turnovers, and that is a much harder thing to replicate IMO. Bills defense was bottom of the league in 3rd down conversions and first downs allowed. Any drop in those turnovers and that defense would have been putrid. Good news is they really reset the D this year, so going into next year the runway is clear to be aggressive at WR if needed with fewer expected holes next offseason. And knowing Beane, if someone comes available during the season, he has shown he would be aggressive and make an in season move if he felt it was the right move.

Weird, I could have sworn a TD was worth 6 points regardless of who scored it.

Do threads ever end here? LOL

Oh my...not the annual "Clowney" thread...I really thought this might the year we didn't get it ha

Wait what? You want to instead compare the belief of what 2023 MIGHT be prior to playing instead of what we now KNOW they were after playing? Come on, this is getting silly now. No disrespect, but Diggs in 2022 has nothing to do with what Diggs was for all of 2023. Second, I already posted this just prior to your post, I am just gonna quote it below rather than rewrite it again. As far as having "no clue" what this group is just something I don't agree with, we know enough to have a reasonable idea of what each guy is in comparison to the guys who were here in 2023. Its fine if you agree or disagree with any of the below, but IMHO I think they are all fair statements and I think several really aren't disputable.

I think we know more than you may realize... We know Diggs wasn't the same in Brady's offense and also had some big drops. We know that Palmer is seen to have better hands, bigger route tree, better route runner, and more consistent at getting open than Davis has been. We know Keon was on pace as a rookie before he got hurt in week 11 to hit 800-900 yards and 7+ TD's. And this was despite not being a full time starter, playing in a spread the ball around offense that saw Allen connecting with 8 to 10 different receivers most weeks. We know Shakir is a better player in 2025 than he was in 2023. We know Samuel is better than Sherfield. We know Moore is better than Harty. So yes, we haven't seen the group on the field yet...nothing is certain...but its more than reasonable to think our WR situation is better today than when Gabe Davis last walked off the field playing for the Bills.

He would be the lowest paid WR on the Bills if we signed him for what NE paid him. That is cheap, even if you think that is an over pay by NE...the actual cost of the contract is cheap and one we could have easily paid if they wanted to keep him.

That is what happens when you are having a discussion in an offseason heading into a season. Kind of the point of convo right? And its not all hope, we know enough about our guys returning and the ones coming in to get a reasonable picture of what they are capable of and which group has more perceived ability and overall talent across the whole room. How about we stay on topic...discussing the guys who actually played in 2023 (not Emmanuel Sanders and not 2022 Diggs). Can you just have a rational conversation ever without exaggeration and sensationalism? No one was saying Shakir was the next Diggs so stop. And we are talking about what WR room was better...the one that played in 2023 and the one we are set to play with in 2025. Bringing up what hope people had for Sherfield and Harty has nothing to do with the end known quantity of the 2023 group and comparing that to the 2025 group. So let me sum this up: You trashed everyone not named Diggs in 2023 in Davis, Shakir, Sherfield, and Harty...both now and all of 2023. And you know full well Sherfield and Harty couldn't even make this roster right now. And you said Davis is terrible and a failure as a WR2, so he couldn't even get his old job back here, if they even would bring him in, would be at best a WR4/5 today here. But somehow all that hate, all those scrubs as you called them...you still want to spend all this time to argue that the 2025 room isn't better? 3 of the 5 guys from 2023 couldn't get their rosters spots back from this group, and 2 of them would have no chance to even make the roster. Its all subjective...this group hasn't been on the field yet. But for me personally, there is 0% chance I would choose the 2023 WR room over the 2025 WR right now. A declining Diggs who didn't fit this offensive style here was NOT enough to carry that group and elevate that group above what I believe this group to believe. I like our chances to win a SB a lot more with this offense than that offense.

What? That is LITERALLY the point of how the WR room is BETTER now than when we had a guy who had no business being a WR2 starting as a WR2. How is this confusing for you? Not to mention, our WR4 and WR5 were journeyman backups in Sherfield and Harty where now we have Samuel and Moore, 2 guys who have done more and could compete to start still on other teams. So yeah...2025 WR room has 5 players on it that could start on other teams. 2023 team had 2 and Davis, who you said should never be a starting WR2. So how is the 2025 WR room not better than the 2023 group?

When looking at last year, I get that, and see where you are coming from in term of how many snaps Mack got. The one thing though that stands out to me, is if they wanted to run that same type of rotation again this year, they could have just kept Mack for cheap where Palmer would be more replacing the Ghost of Cooper's snaps. But despite being a favorite of the coaches, locker room, and even fans they elected to let Mack go to a division rival despite his low cost. IMHO, that to me suggests more they don't want to split the rotation so much and don't need a dirty work specialist as much because guys like Keon and Shakir are pretty good in their own right at it. I think their preference now based on their moves is to get their better guys more targets and more involved. Again, all for bringing him back, only talking what I think is more likely to be his role if they did, and whether or not he would take that say over another place where he has more potential opportunity for more snaps/targets.

I don't need to "think it thru"...you just missed the point. The point was its pretty clear the 2025 WR room > 2023 WR room. And the irony is that some of the people saying its not are the same people who want Davis as a WR5 who was then a WR2. Does that mean the WR room is where everyone wants it to be...no...but its pretty clear to say it hasn't improved the past 2 years isn't really a fair statement. Especially when the WR2 then is just a bench guy here now (if we even brought him back). And lets be real, Samuel/Moore >>>> Sherfield/Harty too and I am sure you would agree with that as well.

Nothing is impossible right, and everything is a fair debate, so no qualm with the debate at all. These are just my opinions on the matter. But here is why I don't think he has any realistic shot of moving up the depth chart without injuries helping if he did end up back here. And again, love him as a backup and depth, no qualms with him coming back. Through week 11 last year, Coleman was on pace as a rookie (while splitting time and not a full time starter in a spread the ball around offense which Gabe never really played in) for: 800-900 yards and 7+ TD's. Thats nearly as good as Gabes best season when Gabe is full time in a higher volume passing offense...additionally, Keon also averaged over 19 yards per catch too. Admittedly, he failed to find his groove and place in the offense after returning from injury, which had a lot to do with being a rookie, trying to be a team player without understanding how to also make his mark, etc. The more reasonable expectation is that the pre-injury is the real Keon and that with a year under his belt, we should see some step up from that guy this year in his 2nd year and in a more full time role. Keon also has a better down field receiving target opposite of him in Palmer (over Mack who was a dirty work player first and foremost than a frequented target) to also help open up more space for Keon as well as guys like Kincaid and Shakir. Palmer was signed for $12M to be the starter, I have a hard time seeing them go away from him before he takes one snap on his 3 year deal, especially with how high they are on him. And a strong case can be made that Palmer has better hands, a more robust route tree, is a better route runner, and better at beating coverage than Davis is. Also, Bills didn't want to pay Davis $13M for 3 years who they drafted and developed in a season they were already losing Diggs...but they had no problem paying Palmer $12M for 3 years which says a lot about who they are going to think is the better fit to start. Shakir is locked and loaded, no one touching him in any of these competitions. So I don't think its realistic to think Davis would compete for WR2 here...maybe they say its an open competition...but realistically, they are giving Keon and Palmer the first crack to be the starters ahead of him IMHO.

Be realistic about what is more likely to happen in terms of where he signs is not at all "rooting against it". To interpret it that way is bizarre to me. I mean I have said in every single post I am good with him coming back. Any of who? If you are talking about our WR room...I suggest you go watch Shakir highlights, I coincidentally did last night while putting my kids to sleep as it popped up in my youtube feed. Its sensational. And no one thinks poorly about Davis highlights...every player in NFL has a highlight real who plays any relevant minutes...but people have been concerned about his low lights.

Gabe Davis was our WR2 and now many of you want to bring him back as our WR5 (which I am fine with if they do). And yet somehow to many of those same people have been yelling non stop that we haven't improved the WR room the past 2 years even though our former WR2 would be a WR5 here now? Um...ok. lol

Im not arguing against bringing him in…Ive said since my first post I am good bringing him back, I only don’t like him as a starter to depend on, but depth I’m good with it. What I am saying is it makes little sense for Gabe, really no sense, if he’s got opportunities to be WR2/3 elsewhere because he’s not going to get much action here to reset his career and look for a next contract. Not to mention, any contract he gets here is also going to be much smaller and probably just 1 year. So as I said before, it feels unlikely for the main reason that we don’t have a consistent role for him here unless someone gets hurt. And at this stage of his career I would think he’s more focused on re-establishing himself again as more than just a depth player. Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s what I would think would in the best interest of his career and future earnings. But if his market is cold, teams aren’t offering much better of an opportunity, then sure I can see coming back here being more attractive especially to try and get a ring (although Bills still have to be interested too). I just expect several teams to be interested that offer him a bigger chance to compete for a lot more targets.