Alphadawg7

Yeah, also doesn't help not wanting to get up and get my newly needed glasses now that I am 47 because I have a 13 week old baby on my lap haha

I think you need to go back and read the posts because 1) I said nothing about Bernard and 2) We were discussing Dorian and whether he has any potential or not at MLB in the first place.

You are not even making sense now. The majority of our key players were drafted by this staff and front office. And then there were guys like Hyde and Poyer who didn't reach high level of play until they got here, especially Poyer. Hyde showed some promise in GB as a young player, but he wasn't yet at the level he reached here. And Poyer was an after thought signing that grew into one of the best safeties of the game here. What is the evidence of "heavily" reliant upon free agents? You do know every team in the NFL signs free agents every season right? We don't rely on them any more than any other team and have had really only made one huge FA signing in Von. Meanwhile on offense we drafted our QB, RB, WR2, Slot WR, both TE's half our starting OL...on defense we drafted our DT, several DE's, all our LB's projected to start, all our CB's. And again, we brought in Hyde and Poyer as cheap under the radar free agents that our scouts targeted and developed them into one of the best safety tandems in the league. I didn't alter the context at all...I specifically said its too early to play the hindsight game with Cook. You are just stating your opinion that Cook won't be a good RB and that Dean will be a "solid" LB. We don't know either of those things yet, so again, too early to play hindsight games. Am I the only one that catches the irony here lmao? You are literally complaining we drafted offense instead of defense with Cook while also simultaneously ranting that its because our HC is obsessed with defense? Lol, how does that even make sense lmao

Yeah don't disagree. It is why heading into this offseason I felt this might be Beane's most important draft since landing our QB because we don't have the spending power to go sign top end talent anymore and need to find and develop these guys in the draft.

Good catch, yeah I know the difference and that is what I meant. Just had originally used cease in a different context and missed it on the edit when I was adjusting what I was saying.

Well considering McD and Beane took a perennial losing franchise, changed the culture, rebuilt the roster in one of the best in the league and are now a perennial contender I would say there are more options than "they were lying" and "they don't know what they were doing." I think I will trust their scouting of players for their system more than I will trust internet draft profiles, which almost the entirety of them are not coming off the back of the amount of time and research a teams scouting department does on players they are vetting. I think it is too early to play the hindsight game on Cook who is entering the season with potentially a big role. As far as the hindsight game goes on taking a LB, its funny you say that because the majority of this board was adamantly against using any early picks both last year and this year on LB or even defense at all. So while you say we should have drafted Dean, that was not the consensus around here by any means. I don't personally know what you wanted to do, so that is not directed at you, more a general comment about how people felt around here.

Except he didn't have mind numbing drops. The one big drop was in the playoff game not during the season and that was a difficult diving catch on a 60 yard rope from Allen in the air in a rookies first playoff game. You want to see him complete that catch of course, but it wasn't like it went right through his hands as he caught it but on securing it when hitting the ground and rolling to complete the tip nicked the turf and it was over turned under replay. And people also forget he also a pretty important and touch catch in that game that helped us win the game. So not sure I can agree that he benched himself during the season because he simply wasn't plagued with drops during the regular season.

I mean they drafted a majority of their best players and starters. Allen and Edmunds were both raw...Allen became elite and Edmunds made multiple probowls and was top 5 in tackles since entering the league (and proving it can get a lot worse at MLB with him now gone). Then you got Milano who is one of the better OLB in the league and Tre who was one of the best corners in the league before injury. They took a raw TE out of college and made him into a pretty good player in Knox who has 15 TD's the last 2 seasons despite limited usage in the pass game and never catching a TD in college. Then they took a DE in Groot who sat out his last year of college and was raw coming out and turned him into a promising and pretty good young player for us. Then you have guys who have been good to solid for the team as well such as Oliver, Taron, Benford, Devin, etc too. Then there is still promising young talent where its too early to know like Elam, Shakir, Cook, Dorian, and of course the big one in Kincaid. So I personally think they have done a pretty good overall job in developing guys here in a lot of cases even if I don't agree on how they handled some of them like I mentioned in my OP.

Im not as down on Dawkins as most, but I believe he has the 5th highest cap hit on the team if I am not mistaken, so I get why there are higher expectations around him. I think Dion will be better this year without that trash can Saffold next to him. I am much more concerned with Brown at RT than I am with anything on the left side. I am hoping that the presence of O'Cyrus and more reps to get rust off help Brown take a step forward this year, but until we see that I am going to remain concerned.

It still may be Bernards job to lose if he can get back in time as Dodson's lack of discipline and mental struggles at the position are keeping that door open for him. And not only is he still unproven there, but like you said his size is a concern in terms of being able to play a full season at MLB. Which is where I keep coming back to the need to start seeing if Dorian can acclimate to the position here as the season goes on to see if he can be a better option as the season progresses. You know, its possible that maybe they are keeping Dorian at OLB in case there is a dooms day scenario where MLB just remains a big issue and they have no choice but to slide Milano over down the stretch and Dorian would be ready to step in at OLB in that case. Not saying they are planning on that, but it also would not shock me if that is part of the consideration on why Dorian is at OLB primarily right now. Obviously they want/hope that someone else like Bernard, Dodson, etc step up and cease control of the spot, but if they falter they will have to consider other options there as it's an important position in McD's defense.

I don't take any exception to anything stated here, and I agree that the coaches have shown they can develop guys in the past. But, sometimes the hole is too glaring to not try and get the better talent ready sooner rather than later. Sometimes, out of need usually, you got to trust the kids talents and test his ability to get ready to play the position. And right now, until someone steps up, it appears we have a big need still at MLB and that Dorian has the potential to be the better player at MLB. If the MLB continues to be a weak point, I hope they give him a chance to see if he can be ready to step up into this spot later in the year if needed.

I definitely understand this approach, and its not wrong, and McD and company have successfully developed guys this way in the past. However, there comes a time where the hole is too glaring to not start getting the kid exposed to the position and seeing if he can develop there enough this year to be a better option. I am not saying throw Dorian to the wolves at MLB right now, I mean he hasn't been learning the position at all thus far. I am just saying start getting the kid some reps in practice in case they need to try and make a change later in the season given we haven't seen anyone step up and look ready to cease control of the MLB spot yet.

On the other hand, there is no preparation in regards to pre-season games. So again, I will wait and see how this plays out in the regular season before I start to get concerned. Not to mention, the OL is the part that takes the most reps to gel, especially when there are new players on the line and guys returning form injury like we have. So it didn't really surprise me persoanlly a whole lot that the starting unit didn't look sharp on the OL in its first preseason action. Now if it persists in the season, then yeah, we got a problem. But don't be surprised if it takes a few games before the OL finds its groove

I have a love-hate relationship with how McD and the staff have handled rookies. Unless we have had no choice, we often bring them along slowly. And its hard to argue against the results given they have developed a lot of young talent into superstars, quality starters, or good role players. BUT...there are times where it just doesn't make sense and they need to get the rookies move involved and still don't. And I just don't understand the hesitation at times. For example Shakir last year. With Crowder going down and McKenzie struggling as the top slot WR, it made no sense to not give Shakir more reps out there to at least get him some experience and see what he could do. And they could have always added Cole after if he wasn't up to the task. Instead, we are entering this year with him penciled in as the slot still with big question marks around him because we didn't get him on the field enough last year despite some promising plays from him. Even AJE, they took him 2nd round and then buried him on the depth chart behind guys at the end of their careers and he basically barely saw any time as a rookie. And honestly, he has never not been buried despite strong camps, showing some promise, and even a 6.5 sack season last year. This year for me its Dorian Williams. We came in with a huge hole at MLB, they said he was drafted with the intent he could be a candidate to play at MLB. But then they open camp running him behind Milano where he won't see the field much without injuries. Meanwhile our MLB position is grossly unsettled while Dorian has been shining at a position he likely won't see the field much at. And I get the concept of them not wanting a rookie learn two positions, but that also means someone else is ready to step up at MLB, and so far that isn't happening. I am hoping the continued unsettled nature of the MLB will cause them to start getting Dorian some reps in practice soon or early in the season for a possible switch by mid to late season. He is showing a lot of promise, and I just hope they don't sit on this kid for a season like they have done at times in the past. If someone doesn't lock down the MLB position, they absolutely better see if Dorian can be the guy before we head into next offseason.

I think it has more to do with vets main focus being don't get hurt and not going 100%. We also have a lot of new parts on the offense, some guys coming back from injury on both sides of the ball, a new QB of the D being figured out at MLB, etc. And with the new pieces and guys coming back from injury, its gonna take some reps for everyone to also gel on the field and get their rhythm too. So for me, I am not too worried at this point about the vets turning it on and getting out of the hangover come the regular season. I do have legit concerns until proven otherwise at MLB and RT, but that has been the case all off season given they are our two biggest question marks after FA and the Draft remaining on the team.

I think the answer here isn't complicated, it comes down to: Shakir was a higher profile pic, he was projected to go as high as the 2nd to 3rd round and was a good value where we got him, while Shorter wasn't even sure he would get drafted. Shorter is a rookie behind 3 locks for the roster in Diggs, Davis, and Sherfield while Shakir entered camp as the lead candidate to be our WR at the slot position and doesn't have a lot of competition either. Shakir has a year in the system, Shorter is a raw rookie who didn't reach his potential in college. So if you want to ask why Shakir might make the team over Shorter, I would start with those items above. None of that assures Shakir his spot, but it explains why he has a leg up and why people still believe he has potential. I think a lot of people are intrigued by Shorter given his size and different skill set, but he does have a harder path to the active 53 than Shakir does for the reasons I stated above.

The amount of over reaction to a preseason game is comical. Of course it’s being led by the usual suspects who break out in a sweat of excitement anytime they see something they can be negative about. This board is in mid season form already of usual doom and gloom

Geezus it’s preseason relax

Me? I wasn't on Archane, I think you got me mixed up with someonen else. I wanted Roschon Johnson who got drafted by the Bears

Honestly, this debate happens every preseason. IMHO, we have a tough week 1 game, I want our starters to get some real reps in before that game. We have a lot of new pieces on offense especially, and that takes time to gel. Our OL has new pieces, we have a new lead RB, we have new receivers, etc. Plus its only Dorsey's second season, so the offense is still evolving, they need real reps, not just practice reps. For me, its a big thumbs up as I want them sharp come week 1. This is an important game because it will be the worst version of this Jets team as it will have no time with Rodgers yet, and as I just mentioned that can take time. They will be more in their groove when we face them the 2nd time, so its important we win this first game IMHO. Of course our season isnt over if we lose, but its definitely one that would be good for us to win being its a divisional opponent who is expected to be a tough team this season.

You wont get any grief from me if you like McKenzie as a player more than others, everyone is entitled to have their own view In 6 years in the league his stats suggest he is a backup to gadget guy at best, so I am not connecting the dots on how length of time in the league suggests he is more than a gadget guy. There are players all across the league who have had sustained careers as a niche specialist or gadget guy. No disrespect Beck, I enjoy your opinions, but I honestly am puzzled by this one if I am being honest. Your multiple references to that he "sometimes" does those things is pretty much the definition of not being very good at it by NFL terms. Being good at something means you do it consistently, the fact he "ran solid routes sometimes" is not a statement you would make about a player who was good at running routes. Everyone in the NFL can "sometimes" be good at something or they wouldn't be in the NFL. Its the guys who consistently do these things who go on to be quality players/starters or better in the NFL. IMHO being in the league 6 years doesn't seem to be a reflection on whether he had a high football IQ or not. There are all kinds of guys who don't have high football IQ's who have long careers in the league, so not seeing the connection here. IMHO, he just didn't play with a high football IQ and mental mistakes got him benched or inactive for games while he was here. As you said above, he is inconsistent in these areas. IMHO I don't think it sounds any better when I change my verbiage to say McKenzie has "inconsistent" hands, was inconsistent as a route runner, was inconsistent at tracking the deep ball, was inconsistent in traffic, was inconsistent with contested catches, and inconsistent in his decision making. To me that still sounds like a WR that shouldn't be starting at his position in the NFL. What he was good at were those short to medium gadget plays where he isn't drawing the teeth of the defense and he carved a role out for himself in Buffalo as such a player. As far as Fitz goes, he is another example of someone whose inconsistency made he a poor choice as a starter while having good value as a backup. There is a reason every team after Buffalo gave up on him quickly as a starter and he became a journeyman QB, because he was just good enough to keep you from totally sucking but not good enough to get you over the hump. He could get hot for a short bit then just go ice cold or fold in big moments. Valuable backup QB though because he was capable of getting hot for short periods of time. I am intrigued with Isabella given his speed and positive buzz since getting here. But he still needs to make the team first and this is a talented group this year, so it won't be easy, but he is trending in the right direction. My guess is we need to keep at least 6 for it to be possible as I expect Diggs, Davis, Sherfield, Harty, and Shakir to make the final 53 as it is. Of those 5, he could push Shakir for his spot, but I still think they are high on Shakir and they know he wont be safe on the PS, so I think he will be part of the top 5 on the final 53. This WR group IMHO is going to be fun to watch this season and really looking forward to it, not to mention Kincaid as well!

Mainstream media sports coverage is dead, it’s all about outlandish comments and polarizing stances to force bickering. While there remain a few good individual ones at places like ESPN, the overall “Jerry Springer” style presentation haunts ESPNs programming now. We live in a world of forcing fake and extreme reactions to things rather than just discussing something analytically. It’s our fault, if we didn’t watch this garbage they wouldn’t force feed it to us. So even many of the guys who have something interesting to say are being forced to do so on platforms where the concept is for the other personalities on the show to be loud and argumentative no matter what the point was or how stupid their argument is. It’s all pre-planned in pre-prouduction meetings and literally scripted too. I have found a lot better sources for sports talk on other platforms, podcasts, etc than ESPN these days. I still watch some ESPN sports reporting, but not like I did in the past when I loved it.

Googling stats is a terrible way to answer that question as it not only lacks context of their past circumstances, it contains no information or data from this off-season and camp. Sherfield and Harty are near locks because they are better players than their stat sheet shows do to lesser opportunities and they have had great camps. Their roster spots biggest threat would be injuries to themselves at this point. Shakir isn’t as safe IMO, but he’s pretty safe because they really like him and he’s shown some good things too even with some things he needs to work on. He won’t be a safe stash on the PS, so if they want to keep him it has to be on the 53 man roster. Andy Isabella could make the cut decisions interesting if he keeps turning the coaches heads for all the right reasons. I think we keep 6 WRs: Diggs, Davis, Sherfield, Harty, Shakir, Isabella Shorter goes to the PS unless they keep 7 in which he would be the 7th guy.

Let’s state it properly then in regards to McKenzie. He sucks as a starting WR in the NFL. He doesn’t have great hands, doesn’t make tough catches, doesn’t track the deep ball well nullifying some of the value of his speed, he isn’t a consistent route runner, doesn’t catch well in traffic, and he isn’t cerebral on the field. However, he is a good gadget player and reserve piece to have on the team who can also provide some value as a returner. However, the fact he isn’t cerebral on the field causes lapses in judgement that can be costly as returner too, so he’s better suited for a backup returner than a primary returner. He’s a fun guy, I liked having him here, but he was a very poor option as a starting player and was really at his best when used in a more gadget type role.

I am not going to count rookies in this, because hard to call them breakouts with a baseline to breakout from. But I will give honorable mention to both Kincaid and O'Cyrus who I think will both have significant contributions this season to the team. Offense: I have 2 which are Cook and Gabe Davis. Cook down the stretch was starting to emerge to be more of a runner than we expected when we drafted him. I think what everyone thought, including our FO and Coaches, was that he could be a real weapon as a receiving threat primarily out of the backfield and an occasional change of pace as a runner in space we can get into space. Signing Harris I think a lot of impressions was the Cook would be more of a compliment to Harris as that guy in space and as a receiver. But all throughout camp Cook has really emerged and felt more like an RB1 and I think he is going be more of an RB1 for this team with Harris complimenting him as more of that tougher yards type RB. Ive been targeting Cook in my fantasy drafts, I think he could be a league winner type player with the great value you can get on him right later in drafts. Gabe Davis breakout was expected last year, and I will admit I came into the offseason down on him. But since then, we have learned that his ankle situation really impacted more than I think many realized last year and this kid has been sensational all through camp. It takes me back to Emmanuel Sanders high praise and expectations of him heading into last year as well. Its a contract year and I think we are going to see Davis have his best season to date, especially with all the upgrades across the offense as well. Defense: I have 3 here which are Groot, McD, and Elam Groot - Our DL is stacked right now with 11 guys that could start for other teams. I think he hits double digits this season personally and I also think the Bills might lead the AFC in sacks this season McD - I think this defense is going to be more aggressive and like I said before might even lead the AFC in sacks. Since arriving in Buffalo, Hughes has played 10 seasons...5 with Frazier and 5 without (4 before and then last year in Houston). Under Frazier, Hughes averaged 4 sacks a season, without Frazier it was double at 8. I really think McD is going to show his defensive prowess this year and this defense will play with more bite than it has ever before. Elam - I know there is a battle going on right now, but Elam emerged late last year and made some key INT's in some key games and playoffs. He is having a good camp along with Dane, but I think the skill set is just better with Elam with the type of WR's we will face and the more aggressive nature McD wants to play with. Nothing against Dane, I just think the physical ability Elam has in a division facing the kind of weapons Miami and Jets have along with AFC WR groups like the Bengals will lend to Dane's speed and better press game than Dane. Honorable mentions: Sherfield - the kid is better than a lot of people realize and I think he will make some plays and contribute well to this offense this season AJE - Coming off an overlooked 6.5 sack season, he has the potential to build on that especially with the talent on this D and McD calling the D. His biggest challenge actually is just that with all the talent in our defensive front he will be in a rotation limiting his opportunities. Especially once Von is back full speed.