Alphadawg7

Thanks, and to answer your question, no not at all. McD and Beane want it as bad as we do. So I do not think it has anything to do with using him as a scapegoat. You can see how much the teams success means to this regime, they are both very connected to Buffalo. I have zero doubt that they will make what they feel is the best decisions. Doesn’t mean every decision will be correct, but I have full confidence that each decision is being made on what they believe is going to be best for the team.

Let me clarify…when I said having little to do with it, I was directly referencing the #2 ranked regular season defense. Hyde missed the majority of the year and Von missed the last half, we were still the #2 ranked D. Not to me thin how many injuries we had during the season…still finishing 2nd. So I was saying in terms of the players who contributed the most to the #2 ranking in regular season, they were mostly out there during Bengals game, and we also got Tre back. So there was no excuse for them to play like the 32nd ranked team when they managed the #2 ranking over a whole season while those guys missed large parts of the season as well as all the injuries in season.

Non Story. Just his brother wishing for something that won't happen. Diggs take a cap hit of over $17M if they traded Diggs before 6/1 and only save $8M if the trade him after 6/1 and basically save nothing in 2024. Literally impossible to replace Diggs with that $8M in savings, and this offense already needs more help, not less. If Stefon felt playing with his brother is what he wanted the most and the priority, he would not have signed an extension that basically keeps him in Buffalo until the end of his career. Stefon has said many times how much he loves Allen and that Allen basically saved his career in his eyes. Its funny to me to see people see that little moment on the sidelines and suddenly think Diggs doesn't believe in Allen anymore. Side Note: There were some people reporting he they could hear Diggs yelling at Allen "Don't listen to him" or something to that nature. And that someone is believed to be Dorsey based on the context of what could be heard from the sidelines. Which if true, would be Diggs frustrated with Dorsey's play calling and begging Allen to try something different. This didn't even need a thread to be honest...he isn't going anywhere, there are no actual rumors, just his brother vocalizing he wants to will his brother to Dallas, which for all the reasons above, will not be happening anytime soon.

I get Hodgins had some success on the field this year in terms of TD's. But he is not a great starting WR for one, he has little down field ability. He is role playing possession receiver at best. He was not the savior we needed this year because he didn't play offensive line, which was the biggest issue we had. Take Robert Foster for instance...when we had a bad WR group, someone had to play and catch the ball. But ultimately he wasn't a guy who stuck anywhere as a full time WR, he wasn't even used here the next year despite being on the roster. So I don't lose any sleep over Hodgins, he wouldn't likely even seen the field much if the Giants had anything resembling a WR core when they brought him in. Once Giants rebuild that WR room, Hodgins is going to be down on the depth chart again and battling for a reserve role like he was here. Unfortunately for Hodgins, he brings very little to Special Teams, which will make his reserve role battle that much more intense. Daboll doesn't bother me cuz he was always going to leave for a HC gig, so happy to see him have some early success and finally learn how to use a damn RB.

Good questions...some of those FA guys you cited were brought in during the early years for short periods during rebuilding. I won't hold too much of that against Beane. He has done a great job over his tenure of building an annual super bowl contender after 20 years of being a doormat. But your question...is it talent or scheme. Well lets look at a couple things. First, AJE was a projected first round pick, and many thought mid first round. Taking him in the 2nd was an absolute no brainer, run to the podium moment. Any team in our spot needed a DE like we were was gonna take AJE there in the 2nd. So can not fault Beane for that. And a lot of people don't realize that AJE had 6.5 sacks this year as a rotational player, makes you wonder how many he could have had if we given more reps and turned loose more. Jerry Hughes only managed to best that 2 times over his whole career as a full time starter in buffalo (7 and 9 sack seasons). Now let's talk more on Jerry Hughes...Last 3 years he had 4.5 sacks, 4.5 sacks, and 2 sacks last year. Most people thought he was washed...but he goes to Houston and manages to match his career high of 9 sacks in his first year on a bad team. 11 sacks here over his last 3 years total...9 sacks there. To me, this is one of many indicators that it's our system more than anything. Last year, Chiefs scored 42 points on us and we couldn't sniff Mahomes in the pocket...so much so Beane spent a Billion dollars on Von Miller to be here 25 years to rectify that. Well, we had the #1 ranked defense last year, and as a team had 42 sacks. Bengals however also had 42 sacks and were the 16th ranked defense. Yet the Bengals the very next week were able to pressure Mahomes and get to him and shut that offense down in the 2nd half to beat them and move on to the Super Bowl. So why was a team that was no better than us at getting to the QB, whose overall team defense was 16th compared to our #1 ranked D, able to have so much more success against KC? Same thing this year...Bengals move the ball on us with ease in severe weather after we fielded the #2 ranked defense. The following week the 17th ranked Chiefs held the same Bengals team in check and moved on to the Super Bowl. How much better can our defense be other being ranked #1 and #2 in the NFL? I mean there is no excuse to keep getting smashed in the playoffs when fielding top end defenses. At some point, you have to step back and look at what others are doing against common opponents and realize they have a better scheme, game plan, and play calls to get past those teams than we do. So for me...I think it is more scheme and Frazier than anything else.

Thanks, and yeah, I agree with all this. Injuries hurt us this year during the season for sure. But honestly, injuries had very little to do with our embarrassing loss to Bengals. Hyde was out most the season and we were the #2 D without him, and that was with Von missing almost the whole last half of the season too. So the defense that managed to maintain the #2 ranking for the last half of the season was pretty much on the field that game. And our offense wasn't suffering from any significant injury issues. Bengals just flat out dominated us. And you touched on one of the reasons why above...we need better coaching. I am not referring to McD, who I still have confidence in. But our coordinators I felt were atrocious in that game and not only was the game plan flawed, but the play calling was terrible and I can site many examples of that. The second major issue that game was the weather. So many fans falsely believe that the severe weather at home is some kind of "advantage" over other teams. Not only is that absolutely not true, I would make the case it's a disadvantage for us. First off, both Mahomes and Burrow are fully capable of playing in bad weather, so we gain nothing there. But the rest of our team make up, schemes, etc is that of a dome team. On offense, we are an air out, long ball offense who lacks any kind of consistent run game with a terrible OL. On defense, we play a style of bend, don't break, and already give offensive players a cushion. When running in the snow, offensive players (because they know where they are going) already have an advantage over a defender because it's slower and harder to plant and react quickly. But its compounded by our defensive scheme because our style already plays off the ball. And to compound that even further than that, Frazier tends to give an even bigger cushion at times because he is always afraid of getting beat deep while he lets guys like Mahomes and Burrow pick us apart in the short to mid range.

There is a MASSIVE difference of saying we are done and being concerned we will be able to make enough moves to get ahead of KC and Bengals next year. All these snarky comments about "how is this possible, I read we are done on here" type things in this thread are very short sighted. Just because someone looks at the road ahead and sees the potential concerns does NOT mean everyone thinks the team is done. If someone can't sit back and take an honest accounting of where we are at, that is on them. Reality: We have 3 key starters up for Free Agency in Edmunds, Poyer, and Devin. We do not know who will be back, if any, and the replacements for those that leave are not currently on this roster. Our 2 best players on the defense (Tre and Von) are coming off ACL issues where Tre already showed he wasn't yet the same player, and now we are going to see Von try and come back from the same injury at 34 years old. So major questions about how good they can be next year despite being 2 of our most expensive and key players. Our OL is in terrible shape and has its own question marks. Will Morse be cut or even retire? Both possibilities given his contract and cap savings if we cut him and also his concussion issues. Is Brown really being looked at as the starter next year or will they bring in competition? The OL needs a LOT of help. Weapons for Josh are in need of an upgrade. Looks like Frazier and Dorsey are going to be back most likely...both were atrocious in the Bengals game. Dorsey was in his first year, so there is hope for improvement. Hard to see Frazier as a guy who is going to make changes and get better given his defense has folded like a lawn chair 3 straight years in playoff losses. Our Schedule and the AFC in general: Schedule - 10 of our 17 games next year are against teams in the playoffs this year, including both Super Bowl teams and the Bengals. Division - Every team in our division are potentially tough opponents and contenders to make the playoffs next season. All 3 have no big QB contracts and are able to spend more to try and close the gap further with the Bills. AFC - Around the AFC there are some young ascending teams like Jags. KC is still KC. And Bengals have a TON of cap space to get even better this offseason. So sorry...being the 3rd ranked best Super Bowl odds really means very little. The reality is that this is probably the biggest offseason of Beane's tenure since drafting Allen in terms of needing to get it right. He doesn't have the war chest to make a lot of big moves. Our cap is tight, we pick late in the rounds, and only have 6 draft picks. The good news is we still have a good roster overall and still more importantly have Allen and Diggs. If Beane can make the right free agency decisions this year and get some good production from the rookie class next year, we very well could cement ourselves right there again with KC and Bengals as the biggest threats out of the AFC. But the margin for error is smaller than its ever been for Beane this year, and that is a tall task for even the best GM's. I do trust Beane and have confidence in him. So pointing out what is concerning does not mean its guaranteed doom and gloom. Its about being a realist to what we are up against and what it will take to stay ahead of those behind us and over take those in front of us. Beane is capable of doing it, but it won't be an easy feat to pull off in one offseason.

Would it though? He has not resembled the player he once showed promise to be on his way to becoming since the injury. There is also some grumblings about just how much he loves football or how committed to it he is. Nobody knows him better than his organization, so if they don't feel like this is a guy to build around or just isn't proving within the organization he is worth that 5th year option, then it's not really a mistake. A lot of people thought (myself included) that not picking of Watkins 5th year option here in Buffalo was a huge mistake. Beane proved that our front office and coaching staff had a much better picture of whether or not Sammy was worth keeping than us posters on this board. Another example that was discussed a lot here on this board was Josh Rosen when AZ traded him after 1 season. A lot of people here, including a lot of popular posters like GunnerBill (not me, I hated Rosen even before the draft) thought Arizona were fools for giving up on Josh Rosen after one year...AZ showed they knew who he was better than posters here did. Thats the life of being a fan rather than an insider. We have all disagreed with a teams decision thinking it was dumb...sometimes we are right, sometimes we are wrong. But often, when you are talking about a highly drafted and high profile player that a team is ready to move on from earlier than expected, there is usually good reasons that come to light after the fact. I will say this, most Washington fans I know are ready to move on from Young too and hope they trade him this offseason before he goes out next year and further kills his value with another disappointing season. They figure he still gets a little benefit of the doubt now, like maybe he just took longer to get all the way back from the injury 2 years ago. But if he doesn't perform well again next year, he will have very little value.

Yup, this is my point. With all the money we spent and draft picks invested...its netted us the #1 and #2 defense the last 2 years. At first glance, looks like a huge payoff and worth it. Then you look at Fraziers last 3 playoff losses and realize this same regular season hero defense has been atrocious and given up 107 points and 1403 yards in those 3 losses. Yet last year Bengals got through KC (same team that trounced us) with a defense ranked 16th (compared to our #1 ranked D) that was also tied with us in sacks at 42. Then this year, KC's 17th ranked Defense got through the Bengals team that had its way with our Defense. Both teams made the Super Bowl with their 16th and 17th ranked defense despite going through 2 power house offenses to get there. So since Frazier can't take those better ranked defenses and get the job done, spend the money on the offense and let Allen come in and outscore those teams like he basically did last year until Frazier and the D folded like a lawn chain in 13 seconds and OT.

Well Milano’s deal was done a couple years ago. Not a fair comparison to what Milano would get if he was a free agent today. Not advocating for a deal this big for Edmunds, just saying can’t compare this years market to one a while back, prices are just different. As far as Edmunds goes, I won’t be pissed if he is brought back, but with Frazier here I don’t see the point in spending more big money on defense. Free up all that cap space and put it into the offense and help and protect Josh. Frazier has had the #1 and #2 ranked defenses the last 2 years and still folded like a lawn chair in the playoffs. So I am at a point where it doesn’t matter who we put on the field, with Frazier here the defense is going to get smashed again in the playoffs. So invest heavy into the offense to make sure we out score them.

Less is still too expensive. Not like he’s gonna sign for $4M or something. He’s still gonna get more money than we can afford to spend on a RB. AND he’s a dome RB! We got small RBs who can’t pick up tough yards. We need guys who can run in the snow when the snow neutralizes their speed and cutting advantage. He isn’t the kind of tough runner who will excel in bad weather, and he can’t stay healthy either.

Honestly, this kind of stuff is pretty common. I have had it happen to me many times across many things. Without thinking about it too hard, I could probably list at least a dozen examples related sports, entertainment, etc where I have met someone who was connected to, friends with, or family to some type of major celebrity or athlete and they were very chatty with info not known to the public. They aren't anybody...but when they can say there are so and so's Uncle, friend, cousin, whatever they suddenly get a little bit of that spotlight and get chatty for attention. Now, in terms of this post...lets assume this story is true, that doesn't mean Edmunds uncle really had the details correct or that things can't still change. A lot of these guys talk like they know more sometimes than they do, again getting back to liking the attention of people being interested in what they are saying. It could be that is what Edmunds and his team are trying to get and his Uncle chatting it up like its a done deal for example. So while I do think its plausible, probably even likely, someone met this guy claiming to be Edmunds uncle. That doesn't mean the words his uncle said are always going to be totally accurate either.

I do not think the combo of Frazier and Dorsey are the right people to man those positions. That is the main significant change I wish would have happened, but neither looks like it will happen. Running it back with those guys makes this the first offseason in the McD/Beane/Allen era where I am concerned about the next season. Frazier - I already made my case as to what I am fed up with about him in the other thread I started. So won't repeat that all here. Dorsey - He gets somewhat of a pass given he is a first year OC. But there is kind of the rub...why are we risking Josh Allens prime and our best SB chances in 20+ years on an inexperienced OC? My biggest gripe about the job he did was he seemed clueless on the style of offense to run based on the roster pieces in place. We only had 2 legit WR's in Diggs and Davis, and like 37 slot WR's on this team...but yet our passing offense was focused heavily on pushing the ball down field. We draft Cook specifically to be a pass catching RB, then we barely use him in that capacity. Then we often run draws with Cook in the run game despite the fact he goes down if someone farts near him. He is talented player who excels in space...so we are running him up the middle? And he completely left Knox out of the game plan the first half of the year in terms of the passing attack, which was clearly a mistake given how valuable of a TD machine he showed once they started using him more. Don't even get me started on his redzone play calling or his situational awareness which was pretty bad most the time. BUT, at least there is hope Dorsey can tighten things up and improve given it was just his first year, and there were some good things he did too. Frazier though...how can anyone expect anything different from him when year after year his defense gets embarrassed in the playoffs? Which is why I have made a much stronger case that we need to go in a different direction at DC given Frazier's contract is up.

Agree with most all this...I would also trade Oliver ahead of the draft personally. Not because he is a bad player, but he just does not succeed consistently enough and also relies heavily on those around him to succeed. So I can not see him being worth the investment next year. Worst case, if they can't get at least a 3rd rounder for him, I suppose they can run it back and let him leave in FA and try and recoup a 3rd rounder that way. Absolutely bring Shaq back, I think Phillips signed a 2 year deal if I am not mistaken, so I think he is already back. If I am wrong, then yes bring him back too. Not sure Hughes is the right answer to bring back. I think you gotta stick with the youth, and for as much flack as AJE gets, people don't seem to realize he had 6.5 sacks here this year in limited playing time. Hughes only had more than that like 3 times his whole career. I don't think you can trade Basham yet, not until they know when Von is going to be ready as we will need the depth and he is on a rookie contract and cheap.

I think he will be back too. And I don't expect an overhaul of the whole defensive system...but Frazier is calling the defense, he is making poor play calls and in game decisions. So a new DC will at least bring fresh ideas and new thoughts during in game moments and hopefully new ideas on how to generate pressure more consistently.

Bucs D was ranked 8th. That is not elite. And I already stated in my OP that it was the one year where the next weeks opponent had a higher ranked D than ours. But Bucs 8th ranked D only allowed 9 points to KC while our 15th ranked got trounced. And that 15th ranked D is still a higher ranking the Bengals had last year (16th) and Chiefs had this year (17th) when they slowed down the same high potent offense that our #1 and #2 ranked defenses got smashed by. Incorrect. McD called a squib kick, not on the HC. ST Coordinator forgot to tell the Kicker. And it wouldn't have mattered if we did, this is a myth, they had all 3 timeouts. We squibbed it this year and in 12 seconds before the half (1 second less), KC managed to still get a FG on us AGAIN. Our D was ranked #2 in the NFL, and the people missing had been missing most the year or half the year. The unit that managed to put up #2 ranked defense was entirely on the field except for Hamlin who was pretty bad in coverage anyway. So again, not accurate accounting here. In fact, you are not really that accurate on any of the 3 points above.

Well for starters I think they are using their young players more effectively and getting more production from them. And I think they have a substantially better offensive scheme and also their defensive scheme has been reliable despite all the defensive turnover. They have just been more consistent in the trenches, that has been key.

Yeah, and to be honest, that was one of the things I admire most about Beane. He doesn't make excuses, he doesn't sugar coat it, and he doesn't hide from the truth. That being said, it was hard to walk away from that end of the year presser feeling good heading into a critical offseason. This is honestly the first time since we drafted Allen that I have ended the season concerned for the next season instead of optimistic. First time in the Allen era where the cap may create more holes while still needing to fix weak spots already like the OL and weapons around Allen. So feels like it is going to take a near perfect offseason by Beane in free agency decisions and the draft to see this team be as good or better next year. And as much as I love Beane, that is a tall task for even the best GM's for one offseason. And while its really early, our schedule next year looks dangerous. AFCE is already a tough division, and all 3 teams have cap space to keep trying to close the gap. In addition to those 6 divisional games, we play 4 AFC playoff teams and 4 NFC playoff teams next year, including both teams in the Super Bowl and Bengals again. And teams like our own division and Bengals still have rookie QB deals and more cap space this offseason to make more improvements. Just feels like the margin of error is the thinnest its ever been in the Beane and Allen eras.

💯 and I was going to mention that in my OP, but post was already getting too long lol. But yes, spot on

I am not advocating to fire McD, I think he gets this next season before his seat starts to get real hot. But I am not confident Frazier can make the right calls or adjustments on the field in the postseason.

Respectfully disagree as you initially just dismissed those critical of Frazier. Here is exactly what you said: "Some people want heads on sticks. They are conditioned in the social media age to think accountability means people being fired. People can be held accountable without losing their jobs." I mean that isn't engaging in a discussion and hearing each others opinions. That was just kind of a rude way to dismiss anyones opinion who doesn't feel Frazier should automatically be brought back by saying they do not understand the word "accountability" because of social media. That is why I just paid you a compliment and applauded you for coming into the conversation and actually discussing your differing opinion on the topic rather than just dismissing anyone who sees it different. I have no issue if you feel differently, but I do feel like that previous stance was a bit disrespectful to those who were taking the time to share their reasons why they feel like it may be time for a change. Any way, I stand by my kudos I sent in the last one, and appreciate seeing this side of Gunner back discussing things like you normally do.

First, I want to acknowledge that this is the Gunner I enjoy and respect. We don't have to agree, but at least you are providing real responses and your own thoughts regarding the topic at hand. So kudos for switching gears, and appreciate the dialogue. I do agree with a lot of what you are saying here, that the defense wouldn't magically change completely because McD has a hand in this defense. However, Frazier has just showed to not have an answer in either game plan, adjustments, or play calling so many times in these big moments. And for me, that is where I would hope we would see an improvement with a new DC who have different thoughts or approaches to these moments. I am not advocating that the defense has to be completely changed to an entirely new scheme. I just want fresh blood in there who can bring some new ideas in these moments and these games.

Are we though? And sorry, that is a bit dramatic...Replacing a DC is NOT "blowing the whole darn thing up". Josh and the offense played to NFL records last year...we lost...thanks to the D. So even with Allen playing at an NFL record level, we still didn't advance. This year, Bengals embarrassed us on both sides of the ball at home while they were missing 3 OL starters. We are cash strapped...our 2 highest paid defenders, and arguably what is supposed to be our 2 best players on D are coming off ACL tear issues. One of them, Von, is doing it at 34 years old and depends on his athleticism. The other Tre, was never that fast, and hasn't yet proven he can get back to a high level of play yet. Now we have Poyer and Edmunds, two important players to Fraziers D the last 2 years who are free agents and one or both may not be back. Our OL is terrible, our lead RB is likely not back, and we have issues at WR to address. Again...no cap space, only 6 draft picks that all end of round picks. Meanwhile: All 3 teams in our division are already tough and have rookie QB contracts giving them more money to spend to keep improving. Bengals, already showing to be ahead of us, also have a rookie QB contract and a lot of cap space to keep improving a team already performing better than ours. KC is still KC. So how close are we today? We made the AFCCG 3 years ago and haven't been back since. Reality is we are firmly behind KC and Bengals right now, and our own divisional opponents are getting better each year. And we don't have the fire power to make drastic moves.

I am listening to players...I listened to the recorded conversation between Kelce and Mahomes on the field who saw how weak the defense being called on the field and ran in a straight line to beat it right up the middle because Frazier called the same play twice, that didn't work either time. That carries more weight to me then listening to players cover for their own DC and not throw him under the bus.

I think you know me by now, I have never been a "fire this guy" over reactor in my tenure on this board. I have always been a believer in continuity. But there comes a time where things are not working and you have to look at if we have the right people in place. This year Jerry Hughes put up 9 sacks in a new defense on the worst team in the NFL in a year he was supposed to be washed. He had 2 sacks with Frazier last year, and 4.5 the two years before. Would you say that indicates that he at least benefited from a change in the defense and DC? For years people complained Hughes got pressure, but not enough sacks. He goes elsewhere and has a stellar 9 sack season despite being seen as washed around here after a 2 sack season last year.