Alphadawg7

The amount of over reaction to a preseason game is comical. Of course it’s being led by the usual suspects who break out in a sweat of excitement anytime they see something they can be negative about. This board is in mid season form already of usual doom and gloom

Geezus it’s preseason relax

Me? I wasn't on Archane, I think you got me mixed up with someonen else. I wanted Roschon Johnson who got drafted by the Bears

Honestly, this debate happens every preseason. IMHO, we have a tough week 1 game, I want our starters to get some real reps in before that game. We have a lot of new pieces on offense especially, and that takes time to gel. Our OL has new pieces, we have a new lead RB, we have new receivers, etc. Plus its only Dorsey's second season, so the offense is still evolving, they need real reps, not just practice reps. For me, its a big thumbs up as I want them sharp come week 1. This is an important game because it will be the worst version of this Jets team as it will have no time with Rodgers yet, and as I just mentioned that can take time. They will be more in their groove when we face them the 2nd time, so its important we win this first game IMHO. Of course our season isnt over if we lose, but its definitely one that would be good for us to win being its a divisional opponent who is expected to be a tough team this season.

You wont get any grief from me if you like McKenzie as a player more than others, everyone is entitled to have their own view In 6 years in the league his stats suggest he is a backup to gadget guy at best, so I am not connecting the dots on how length of time in the league suggests he is more than a gadget guy. There are players all across the league who have had sustained careers as a niche specialist or gadget guy. No disrespect Beck, I enjoy your opinions, but I honestly am puzzled by this one if I am being honest. Your multiple references to that he "sometimes" does those things is pretty much the definition of not being very good at it by NFL terms. Being good at something means you do it consistently, the fact he "ran solid routes sometimes" is not a statement you would make about a player who was good at running routes. Everyone in the NFL can "sometimes" be good at something or they wouldn't be in the NFL. Its the guys who consistently do these things who go on to be quality players/starters or better in the NFL. IMHO being in the league 6 years doesn't seem to be a reflection on whether he had a high football IQ or not. There are all kinds of guys who don't have high football IQ's who have long careers in the league, so not seeing the connection here. IMHO, he just didn't play with a high football IQ and mental mistakes got him benched or inactive for games while he was here. As you said above, he is inconsistent in these areas. IMHO I don't think it sounds any better when I change my verbiage to say McKenzie has "inconsistent" hands, was inconsistent as a route runner, was inconsistent at tracking the deep ball, was inconsistent in traffic, was inconsistent with contested catches, and inconsistent in his decision making. To me that still sounds like a WR that shouldn't be starting at his position in the NFL. What he was good at were those short to medium gadget plays where he isn't drawing the teeth of the defense and he carved a role out for himself in Buffalo as such a player. As far as Fitz goes, he is another example of someone whose inconsistency made he a poor choice as a starter while having good value as a backup. There is a reason every team after Buffalo gave up on him quickly as a starter and he became a journeyman QB, because he was just good enough to keep you from totally sucking but not good enough to get you over the hump. He could get hot for a short bit then just go ice cold or fold in big moments. Valuable backup QB though because he was capable of getting hot for short periods of time. I am intrigued with Isabella given his speed and positive buzz since getting here. But he still needs to make the team first and this is a talented group this year, so it won't be easy, but he is trending in the right direction. My guess is we need to keep at least 6 for it to be possible as I expect Diggs, Davis, Sherfield, Harty, and Shakir to make the final 53 as it is. Of those 5, he could push Shakir for his spot, but I still think they are high on Shakir and they know he wont be safe on the PS, so I think he will be part of the top 5 on the final 53. This WR group IMHO is going to be fun to watch this season and really looking forward to it, not to mention Kincaid as well!

Mainstream media sports coverage is dead, it’s all about outlandish comments and polarizing stances to force bickering. While there remain a few good individual ones at places like ESPN, the overall “Jerry Springer” style presentation haunts ESPNs programming now. We live in a world of forcing fake and extreme reactions to things rather than just discussing something analytically. It’s our fault, if we didn’t watch this garbage they wouldn’t force feed it to us. So even many of the guys who have something interesting to say are being forced to do so on platforms where the concept is for the other personalities on the show to be loud and argumentative no matter what the point was or how stupid their argument is. It’s all pre-planned in pre-prouduction meetings and literally scripted too. I have found a lot better sources for sports talk on other platforms, podcasts, etc than ESPN these days. I still watch some ESPN sports reporting, but not like I did in the past when I loved it.

Googling stats is a terrible way to answer that question as it not only lacks context of their past circumstances, it contains no information or data from this off-season and camp. Sherfield and Harty are near locks because they are better players than their stat sheet shows do to lesser opportunities and they have had great camps. Their roster spots biggest threat would be injuries to themselves at this point. Shakir isn’t as safe IMO, but he’s pretty safe because they really like him and he’s shown some good things too even with some things he needs to work on. He won’t be a safe stash on the PS, so if they want to keep him it has to be on the 53 man roster. Andy Isabella could make the cut decisions interesting if he keeps turning the coaches heads for all the right reasons. I think we keep 6 WRs: Diggs, Davis, Sherfield, Harty, Shakir, Isabella Shorter goes to the PS unless they keep 7 in which he would be the 7th guy.

Let’s state it properly then in regards to McKenzie. He sucks as a starting WR in the NFL. He doesn’t have great hands, doesn’t make tough catches, doesn’t track the deep ball well nullifying some of the value of his speed, he isn’t a consistent route runner, doesn’t catch well in traffic, and he isn’t cerebral on the field. However, he is a good gadget player and reserve piece to have on the team who can also provide some value as a returner. However, the fact he isn’t cerebral on the field causes lapses in judgement that can be costly as returner too, so he’s better suited for a backup returner than a primary returner. He’s a fun guy, I liked having him here, but he was a very poor option as a starting player and was really at his best when used in a more gadget type role.

I am not going to count rookies in this, because hard to call them breakouts with a baseline to breakout from. But I will give honorable mention to both Kincaid and O'Cyrus who I think will both have significant contributions this season to the team. Offense: I have 2 which are Cook and Gabe Davis. Cook down the stretch was starting to emerge to be more of a runner than we expected when we drafted him. I think what everyone thought, including our FO and Coaches, was that he could be a real weapon as a receiving threat primarily out of the backfield and an occasional change of pace as a runner in space we can get into space. Signing Harris I think a lot of impressions was the Cook would be more of a compliment to Harris as that guy in space and as a receiver. But all throughout camp Cook has really emerged and felt more like an RB1 and I think he is going be more of an RB1 for this team with Harris complimenting him as more of that tougher yards type RB. Ive been targeting Cook in my fantasy drafts, I think he could be a league winner type player with the great value you can get on him right later in drafts. Gabe Davis breakout was expected last year, and I will admit I came into the offseason down on him. But since then, we have learned that his ankle situation really impacted more than I think many realized last year and this kid has been sensational all through camp. It takes me back to Emmanuel Sanders high praise and expectations of him heading into last year as well. Its a contract year and I think we are going to see Davis have his best season to date, especially with all the upgrades across the offense as well. Defense: I have 3 here which are Groot, McD, and Elam Groot - Our DL is stacked right now with 11 guys that could start for other teams. I think he hits double digits this season personally and I also think the Bills might lead the AFC in sacks this season McD - I think this defense is going to be more aggressive and like I said before might even lead the AFC in sacks. Since arriving in Buffalo, Hughes has played 10 seasons...5 with Frazier and 5 without (4 before and then last year in Houston). Under Frazier, Hughes averaged 4 sacks a season, without Frazier it was double at 8. I really think McD is going to show his defensive prowess this year and this defense will play with more bite than it has ever before. Elam - I know there is a battle going on right now, but Elam emerged late last year and made some key INT's in some key games and playoffs. He is having a good camp along with Dane, but I think the skill set is just better with Elam with the type of WR's we will face and the more aggressive nature McD wants to play with. Nothing against Dane, I just think the physical ability Elam has in a division facing the kind of weapons Miami and Jets have along with AFC WR groups like the Bengals will lend to Dane's speed and better press game than Dane. Honorable mentions: Sherfield - the kid is better than a lot of people realize and I think he will make some plays and contribute well to this offense this season AJE - Coming off an overlooked 6.5 sack season, he has the potential to build on that especially with the talent on this D and McD calling the D. His biggest challenge actually is just that with all the talent in our defensive front he will be in a rotation limiting his opportunities. Especially once Von is back full speed.

Eagles: They were close to winning it last year...they got better this offseason while Chiefs loss some players. Chiefs: Popular choice for #1, and basically are until proven otherwise since they are champs. But honestly, I think this Chiefs team would lose to this current Eagles team if these two teams replayed the SB today, so I swapped Eagles and Chiefs. Bills - Not a homer pick, I think they have maybe the best roster in the NFL right now top to bottom, but until we see a few things like is the OL improved, is Dorsey better, is McD making the D better, are our injured guys back (Tre, Gabe, Von, Hyde) to themselves, etc it's impossible to move them ahead of Eagles or Chiefs. Bengals - I know, they beat us over 1.4 worth of games...but I do think the Bills had a great offseason and I don't think the Bengals are actually that great. I am not even convinced they win their own division. But, given back to back AFCCG's, they have this spot until proven otherwise. 49ers - Give them a QB as good as say David Carr or better, and they would be top 2 on this list...but QB is a real question mark, but their roster is so good that even with a major question mark at QB they still make the list at 5. Jets, Ravens, Browns Jets - They weren't that far from playoffs last year despite averaging just 1 TD offensively a week. Rodgers, whether his play has fallen off or not, will still greatly improve on that. That roster is stacked, but the OL is still an achilles heal, so hard to say where they fall until we see this all on the field...so have them lurking. Ravens - The got Lamar some new weapons and Lamar is healthy with a new deal. If Lamar can stay healthy and OBJ can be good, then they could reclaim their division, but there is no gurantees on either of those. Browns - Watson buzz is he looks like a different QB, more like his old self or possibly better. If Watson is legit, this Browns team is going to contend. I hated they got Elijah Moore, he is going to be a stud in that offense and don't be surprised to see him flirt with 1000 yards this year. He has been blowing everyone away in camp so far too. Bonus: Fools Gold: Cowboys and Chargers - Not buying into these fools gold teams. These guys find ways to come up short every season and underperform.

Agree with most you wrote, except this. Everywhere the positional battle had separation, they listed who was the starter and who was the backup. In the few where competition was in play, they listed them all as the starter separated by slashes, and CB2 was one of those. I doubt they would list Elam there if he wasn't legitimately competing for CB2 with Dane. Second, this Dane interception has been a bit exaggerated to be more of a play than it was. Dane didn't make a play on the ball, it was an awful pass by a rookie QB that hit Dane right in the chest 10 yards past the target. Pretty much any player on our roster could have intercepted that pass, it was thrown right to him like they were playing catch. It would be different it was a play Dane made to go get the Int, but this was a free gift and that play alone isn't going to seal the deal. Now Dane may win the job outright, he has had a good camp, but that one play is pretty insignificant in terms of the final outcome of who enters week 1 as CB2. And Elam was in the next series with the ones, that is a definite sign he is in this competition. And Elam getting an extended run is no surprise either given they pretty much know who Dane is already and probably want to get to see Elam more. Personally, it's a good problem to have, both have had a good camp so far. I also think its possible they handle CB2 more on a rotation based on scheme, matchups, etc as opposed to say CB1 where Tre is a constant. Elam and Dane both have different strengths and weaknesses, so whoever wins the battle isn't necessarily going to dominate the snaps at CB2 the way Tre does. For me, this competition still seems very much ongoing and I suspect Elam will get the start in the 2nd game.

Well everyone in your life will be eternally grateful for that friend being there at the time you needed it the most. Congrats on coming through that and building a wonderful life.

Yeah really enjoyed it. I love the "UNTOLD" series in general. For those who don't know, its an excellent series are based on sports similar to like the 30for30 series by ESPN. Each one though is a individual mini-doc, so when you click on one it doesn't show it as in there are other episodes. So just search for UNTOLD on netflix to try and find the others. Jake Paul one came out just before Manziels did too and that was interesting watch. My favorites were the two part one on Manti Teo and then the one on the minor league hockey team owned by the mafia (which is probably my favorite). But its a fantastic series and I think there are probably at least 10 now Yeah I think a lot of people are not understanding to just how serious it can be. Just a few days before the Manziel doc came out, a young neighbor of mine committed suicide who was in his early 20's. He had just been diagnosed in the previous weeks as bi-polar and the week leading up to it his roommates said he was acting really unusual and referenced hearing voices a lot. Poor kid used zip ties to suffocate himself. Im happy to hear that you have found effective ways now to manage it and congrats on finding your wife after coming out of a dark place, that sounds like divine intervention. My wifes Aunt battles it herself, but I have never seen an episode because she has not had any episodes in the time I have known my wife thanks to a good medication regimen. But she told me there were episodes where she was high up somewhere convinced she could fly and had to be carefully talked down in those moments, but those were also moments where she wasn't taking medication and a long time ago.

I get why you are saying this...and I will admit, his camp performance has started to shift my skepticism (after last seasons struggles) some, and more so because of how much more has come out about his ankle injury and the impact it had on him last season. Also, with Kincaid here, Gabe doesn't have to be so heavily relied on, and I think Kincaid is going to open up a lot of things for Davis this season. It's not unrealistic to think Davis has his best season this year and that he might flourish in this offense now the way it is built. But, it is still training camp, so I wouldn't want to over react and give him some deal that he may not live up to. However, if they found a way to get an extension together that wasn't crazy, then hey I wouldn't hate it. But I also don't know why Gabe would do a deal like that in a contract year, I mean he will get that type of deal regardless from someone at the very minimum next season. It would only be if he truly wants to stay, otherwise he can set himself up for a potential significant contract next year if he puts up his best season. And you are right, if he has a big season, then we will likely lose him as it would be tough to afford him.

Yeah, but this isn't done in a vacuum, there is context and circumstances that dictate some of these decisions, including a substantial amount of draft research not only on the players but insight and how the board might fall. For example, in both cases, the Bills were picking late in the first round. It's not like they went into the draft 100% certain they needed to trade up to get Elam for example. He was a kid they were high on who they felt they would have a shot at where they were picking, and the pre-draft footage supports that, and as the draft fell he was by all accounts the last player on their board with a first round grade. It was in that moment where they felt they needed to make a move to get him because they also didn't have anyone else graded high enough to take at their draft slot if he went before their pick. Had there been multiple players they liked at their spot then the need to make a move maybe doesn't happen. Same with Kincaid, they didn't feel he was even going to make it to them. And as they approached their pick, he was the only one on the board they felt had a first round grade at any position, and getting the offense more weapons was also a priority. So combine the fact that we needed more weapons for Allen and no one left beyond Kincaid had a first round grade, offense or defense, and the fact they had Kincaid graded high on their board and was a significant value add at where they could get him, they decided to make the move to go get him that was relatively inexpensive compared to some of the other moves teams made to move up in the first. I don't think that if say Kincaid and the 2 WR's who they reportedly had a first round grade on were all on the board they would have felt the need to move up. Lastly, when you are top level team with a tight cap, best way to add high end talent cost effectively is to through the draft. And when you are drafting late, you don't often have opportunities to land premium players, and they very much saw Kincaid as a premium prospect graded higher than where we got him. In fact many felt he has the best hands of any TE or WR in the draft, so to be in position to get a premium prospect late in the first by only giving up a 4th is one of those opportunities that doesn't happen every year. So I like that Beane is aggressive in these moments to go get the talent he has graded high rather than sit back and take someone they didn't even have a first round grade on.

I don't think McKenzie was the key...the offense as a whole was just clicking more and McKenzie didn't do a whole lot in the early part of the season with his only game with relevant stats was the Miami game which was more about how short handed we were in that loss with injuries and guys struggling with heat issues like Diggs and needed to get off the field. That being said, I do agree that another weapon in the slot will be good for Allen and this offense, but just saying McKenzie wasn't really doing much from the slot last year when the offense was rolling. I think the biggest blow was Davis hurting his ankle early in the season and playing through it with it never being quite right. We didn't have any legit weapons behind him at WR other than Knox, but the OL was playing so bad that they needed to use Knox more as a blocker than in the pass game for a lot of the season.

1. Agree - I think its possible that CB2 will see some rotations based on defensive matchups, scheme, etc. For example when they want to run man and/or press, could Elam out there opposite Tre with Dane/Benford maybe more in zone, etc. 2. I think you answered your own question when you said he had a great "day". Lots of guys have a good day in camp, but its about consistency and overall performance throughout camp and I feel like we have heard a lot more about Bernard and Dodson overall. So I am assuming they just have more consistently stood out than Spector has and made this more of a 2 man race. Settle has had a good camp, and Poona is still learning the playbook. So I expected to see Settle at #2 personally. Our DT position is deep right now as we are 5 deep with guys who could be starters on several other teams. McD is going to use a good rotation on them, so I think being 2 or 3 is a bit irrelevant when it comes to DT as they will get snaps. Same for a guy like Shaq at DE who is 3rd on the depth chart, but they will get him into the rotation still as he played well last year and why they brought him back.

I agree, I could not understand any defense of Frazier after yet another lay down and pathetic showing in a playoff loss by the defense.

They aren't competing for the same position. Sherfield is a lock already as the WR3 behind Diggs and Davis on the outside. Shakir and Harty are competing for reps atop the slot WR depth chart. If anyone is a threat to passing Shakir its Harty who has had a strong camp. Ideally, I don't think they want to rely on Harty as the lead slot guy though, especially given Hines injury forcing Harty to the top of the depth chart as a kick and punt returner. With his injury history, the more reps he gets the higher risk of another injury given his small frame. Their original plan was him to be the deep threat, a guy who could take the top off the defense, and also handle some of the McKenzie type plays too. The biggest risk to Shakir being passed up by Harty is actually Kincaid and how good he has looked. With how much Kincaid has shined so far, the could easily manage Harty's reps (reducing injury risks) at the slot position by lining Kincaid up there instead rather than any "slot" WR. So that alone I think removes some concerns about Harty having a "starting" role at the slot and can manage his use rate to hopefully keep the guy healthy as much as possible, especially if he is handling all kick return duties too. Sp Shakir is going to start needing to stand out for the right reasons as the intensity of camp turns up with preseason here and he needs to make plays or I think Harty will over take him and relegate Shakir to a backup role similar to last year. His roster slot I think is safe regardless given there is no one behind them, especially with Harty's injury history. But his spot as the top slot guy is still something he needs to earn and Harty isn't going to make it easy. All that being said, I am still optimistic about Shakir, but that doesn't change the fact that he has to show it out on the field still.

McD always prefers to bring rookies along slowly when they can. So, I think the Bates O'Cyrus thing is probably more because he is a rookie and they want him to know he isn't going to just be given priority because he was a 2nd round pick, he has to earn it and show he is ready. I expect O'Cyrus wins the job either by week 1 or early in the year.

Ive been saying since the day he is signed that this guy is better than people think or realize. I have followed him all the way back since his SF days, and this kid is going to provide some value to this team this year. I really liked his signing and I think he is going to prove his doubters wrong on the field this season and why just googling stats without context is an unreliable way to grade or evaluate a players potential. And Sherfield has been having a very good camp overall beyond just these 2 clips too and seems to already have good rapport with Allen. Of course, that still needs to transition into live game action, so don't want to over value that...but still good to see consistent positive reports on him. Like in Miami last year, he is going to be a role player barring injuries. So his stat line isn't going to be crazy otherwise, there are a lot of mouths to feed with Diggs, Davis, Kincaid, Knox, and then guys like Harty, Shakir and the RB's getting some targets too. Just not enough balls to go around, plus it seems a them in camp so far is more balance in the run game too. But, he will make plays for us and bring value to this team while also being capable of an increased role when needed.

I think people need to start shifting their perception about this CB2 3-way battle with Elam, Dane, and Benford. There is this negative perception that the fact Elam hasn't been named CB2 is somehow negative mark on Elam. But that is not what is really going on, Elam isn't in a battle of CB2 because he isn't playing well enough, its because all 3 guys are having strong camps and deserve to be in the competition still and no one is going to be handed the job. I don't see this as a bad thing by any means. Never have too many good corners and its great that these guys are making the coaches decision tough.

Im between 1 and 3, especially living in CA where you don't get much Bills talk, insight, or news here

Dont get me wrong, its still a drop in the sense he didn't make the play. Just mean people have over exaggerated this play a bit and used this play too much to define or condemn the kid. He still has to prove himself no doubt, but I think there is still reason to see potential in him. No...No its not. This is a photo of ball approaching a WR, it hasn't even reached his hands yet, so no this is not a photo of anyone dropping anything considering the ball hasn't even reached him yet. And he didn't let the ball go through his hands, he caught it but didn't secure it before the ball touched ground during the roll while securing it.

I get you on that, and yeah concerns off of camp are always fair. The one thing I would add is that its early and some reports have been conflicting too. As far as the play goes, I don't think what you are saying isn't accurate, I was referencing the others who keep saying he dropped it as if it hit his hands and then dropped the ball. I think it not being caught clean is a fair assessment of the play, I was just pointing out the degree of difficulty was also higher than people think on that play too and for a rookie in his first playoff game who had not played much. For me, I am not here to say he is going to be a stud for sure or anything like that, I am just more pushing back on those who want to condemn the kid off one play or the fact he was a 5th round pick. He will have to earn his spot and reps, but I still think he has potential.