Alphadawg7

Forget out team record this year (there are a lot of factors in that)...but one silver lining has been we have seen a lot of young players begin to emerge into good to even great players for us this year. So I am curious if the emergence of these young players, many of which were written off or not thought much of prior to the start of the season, has impacted people's view of his draft history. Personally, I already thought Beane had done well in the draft...but he obviously still had his fair share of critics around here. Some of those players include: AJE, Bernard, Benford, Shakir, Cook, Kincaid, O'Cyrus, Dorian, and even Oliver to an extent. AJE - (2nd round)A long time whipping boy around here despite having a mini breakout last year with 6.5 sacks in a rotational role. He has become a very good player for us this season already matching his sack total last year and on pace for 10 sacks, plus he has an INT and defensive TD. Bernard - (3rd round)Labeled a bust by many the moment he was drafted and considered a major liability by most heading into this season. But he has been one of the defenses best players for this team on the season. Benford - (6th round) Seen as a guy only playing because Elam wasn't ready to winning the 3 way battle and playing like a starting corner. Shakir - (5th round) Disregarded by many just because he fell to the 5th round, falsely labeled by many of not having good hands mostly because of one tough catch in the playoff last year. Now he is becoming a staple in the offense with his snap count rising from 10% week 1 to now 80% nearly this week. Has the best catch rate on the team. Cook - (2nd round) Considered a change of pace 3rd down back with little value as a featured runner. Currently 2nd in the NFL in rushing yards despite Dorsey's struggle with consistently involving him and looking like a long term important player for this offense right now. Kincaid - (1st round) He did have a lot of hype, but was too early to know, but he is proving that hype is legit and now the 2nd best receiving weapon on the team. O'Cyrus - (2nd round) Instant starter and while he has had some rookie struggles, he has really made an impact on the OL for the most part. Oliver - (1st round) Most were against his extension, now he not only is proving he was worth it, he has become one of the elite DT's in the NFL this year under McD's defense. So has this impacted your view of his draft history seeing these guys really start to emerge and breakout this year? NOTE: I think AJE, Cook, and O'Cyrus play is getting to the point that the old "Beane can't draft in the 2nd round" criticism is headed for retirement. For the record, my vote was: B Grade A Grade Better

Beane has made a lot of very good picks, so it may be a tad early to label Kincaid the 2nd best just yet. However, he is certainly trending that way. But Oliver is in that convo, but also guys like Cook, Bernard, Benford, etc have great cases given where he found those picks too. Kincaid is supposed to be a stud, those guys were after thoughts by most people here and are very good players for us now.

How did McD create this mess? Was it his fault we lost Tre, Milano and Daquan? I mean he has done a pretty epic job at managing the defense despite the loss of those guys along with other guys missing time like Benford, Bernard, Oliver, etc along the way too. And if 1 game is any indicator of what is to come, Dorsey was the "mess" of the offense, and McD made the change to fix that. So I am not sure what "mess" you are referring to that you are pinning solely on McD other than to just do a blanket blame McD for everything because you have been against McD as the HC for a while. He was a raw rookie lmao. And BOTH McD and Beane said the plan was Allen to start week 1 until the 3rd preseason game almost got Allen killed by the OL and they didn't want to throw him to the wolves and let him get a little more practice time in given how bad the OL was before putting him out there. That is the ONLY reason Peterman started, and he didn't make it through a game before they had enough and said screw it, we need to go with Allen.

The offense was everything many of us have been yelling for it to be for a year now. Motion with purpose, screen passes, creativity, using Josh's legs, under center, getting our RB's, Kincaid, and Shakir more involved in the pass game, etc. Dorsey - Just called plays, not an offense. Brady - Was everything that Dorsey wasn't (in this 1 game at least) Its one game, but it was an incredible start to the Joe Brady interim trial. Now, we need to see consistency, we need to see the offense over come adversity, we need to see the adjustments if things aren't working, etc. But I am a LOT more optimistic about next week than I was before we saw this change. That was a Jets D that gave us trouble last year and this year, also gave a lot of other good QB's trouble. We jsut went out and put the highest score up the Jets have given up all season, and that is factoring in us taking the foot off the gas for the whole 4th quarter. Most points we scored since Week 4 too. We need to win at least one, preferably both, against Eagles and KC these next 2 weeks to keep our playoff hopes realistic. If we lose both, it would be very difficult to make the playoffs without help from other teams. Win both and we will start looking like the best team in the AFC again.

Allen likely would have broke the record much sooner and by more had he had Diggs and Beasley his rookie year too. That game of what if goes both ways. So let me see if I get this straight...Allen already owns the official record and did it in 5 seasons and 4 games because he missed 6 games due to injury and still has 6 games to play this year. I mean its not his fault Mahomes didn't beat out Alex Smith as a rookie to start sooner. But if Allen keeps his current pace and ends up with 45 TD's, if we then ignore every game but Allens last game as a rookie to match Mahomes rookie year and he STILL has more TD's than Mahomes you are saying it STILL won't be legit? So no matter how many ways Allen gets more TD's than Mahomes it will never be a valid record by your eyes is what I get from you. Which is just crazy to me. And Allen's record does NOT mean Allen is better than Mahomes, it means Allen set the record for most total TD's in NFL history over first 6 seasons...and he didn't need 6 seasons to do it, he has done it in 5 seasons and 4 games (he missed 6 due to injury and he still has 6 left to play this year). And considering he started on a rebuilding team with scrubs as weapons his early years, that is quite the accomplishment.

Here is the math: Josh Allen has 6 more games to get finish his 6 seasons. He is on pace for 45 total TD's this year (16 more than he has now). If Allen stays on pace and finishes with 45 he will have 221 for his career through 6 seasons. Mahomes has 204, but Mahomes only played the final game of his rookie year and Allen played 12 games his rookie year. If you back out the first 11 games of Allens Rookie year to match Mahomes, Allen will STILL have more TD's than Mahomes with 208 vs 204. So this whole thing about Mahomes not playing his rookie year is really not a legit counter point to the validity of Allens record as he will likely not only officially own the record, but will also have produced more than Mahomes over their first 5 seasons and 1 rookie year game that everyone is using for Mahomes. And none of that means one QB is better than the other...it means Allens record is legit and even more impressive considering he was saddled with no talent around him on a gutted and rebuilding franchise for the first 2 years to start his career and was also a raw prospect coming in who didn't have the benefit of sitting and learning the game either. If Allen stays on pace, if you remove all but the last game of Allens rookie year, he will still have more TD's than Mahomes while having only the one game of his rookie year just like Mahomes. If that happens, how will you dispute the validity of Allens record then? The argument is that Mahomes didn't play the first season...which is factually wrong. He played the last game. So I am removing Allens rookie year up to the last game JUST LIKE MAHOMES so their rookie years match. And when you do, by seasons end, Allen will still have more TD's than Mahomes if he stays on the pace he is on now.

Agreed, they get a lot of pressure on the QB (3rd in the league) but the defense is beatable. With Joe Brady incorporating so much more motion (most of the season yesterday), more screens, quick passes and Allen under center, they can exploit that Eagles D. A week ago I was doubtful we could beat the Eagles...after seeing the improvements against the toughest defense on our schedule yesterday, I am now much more optimistic we can win this game. Won't be easy, but I think the team we saw Sunday can beat any team in the league. But getting back to your original point, we need to see them do it with consistency and must win at least one of our next 2 games against Philly and KC to keep our playoff hopes in tact.

You didnt answer my question though, and you are ignoring the fact that Josh still has 6 games to go. By seasons end its MORE than likely, that even if you back out Allens first 8 games to match Mahomes that he will STILL have more TD's than Mahomes.

You realize Allen only played 8 more games than Mahomes did right? To pretend that the talent around Mahomes and Allen to start their careers didn't factor into those 8 games is pretty ridiculous. None of that means Allen is "better" than Mahomes, it means Allens accomplishment is worthy of the credit he gets for it.

Geezus man…pointing out Allen had less to work with is not diminishing Mahomes at all. It’s like this board has a reading comprehension problem this morning. Since when are indisputable facts a an insult to another player? Does it make Mahomes less great? NO, not at all. It makes Allen’s accomplishment more impressive considering, but in literally no way, like 0% does it diminish Mahomes, his status as the top guy, etc. But if you want to keep misreading, misinterpreting, and inventing your own narratives about a very factual and clear statement of fact, then so be it. But literally NOT ONE person is saying Allen is better than Mahomes over this record even though you’re trying to spin it if they are. Facts are: Mahomes started with a great roster around him, Allen didn’t. Allen still persevered despite the challenges he had to go through. That is simply an impressive accomplishment for Allen, not in anyway a slight at Mahomes. And Allen still has 6 more games to further extend his lead that could make the first season a moot point too. 1. Who cares. 2. You realize Allen could easily own both records by season end right?

Who could argue that Josh did it with less and still has not finishing his 6th year and by the time he does he could very well still have the record if you remove Allen’s first 15 games to match Mahomes starts? Yet here we are with people arguing and diminishing Allen’s record before he’s even finished establishing what the record is.

I’m not comparing them as players. We are discussing the validity of the record. And stop. Kelvin Benjamin was a joke compared to Hill. Clay is a joke compared to Kelce. If Bills take Mahomes in 2017 he does NOT turn KB and Clay into all time greats and HOF players. No offense, but this argument you’re making about Hill and Kelce is utterly ridiculous. Hill is the best WR in football, and even better now than he was playing with Mahomes. You’re a good poster, but I can’t even fathom how you’re even attempting to act like Mahomes offensive roster players wasn’t light years better than Allen’s when their respective careers started. And again, there are still 6 games left. If Allen avg 3 TDs rest of season he will hold the record even if you take away the first 15 games from Allen’s rookie year (Mahomes stated the last game of his rookie year). This.

I am simply pointing out that it’s really silly to diminish Allen’s accomplishment. And there are still 6 games left…If Allen averages 3 TDS a week he will hold the record even if you take away both Mahomes and Allens first season. So this narrative in here about Mahomes playing only 1 game in his rookie year is even more silly right now.

Agree on needing consistency. However, I saw things yesterday that I have been screaming for Dorsey to do for over a year and that was very encouraging in having confidence that they can get some consistency back. One, we ran the most motion plays of the season and the motion had purpose. Orlovsky pointed out the James Cook TD pass for example, off the motion they see it’s man and with bunches on the right Josh gives 2 thumbs up indicating we are going with the play called in the huddle and Cook comes through across the bunches wide open for the easy TD throw. This is the kind of stuff that has been missing. Peppering in Allen runs as well made them need to account for that as well and creates more pressure on the D. Getting our play makers involved like Kincaid, Shakir, and RBs in the passing game was also refreshing. This next week will really tell us where we are at, but at least there is finally reason for optimism. But for the first time in a while we his team seemed to be having fun and enjoying football again too, and love to see that.

Are we really having a convo about being worried that if we win we will keep McD? Lmao. Bills fans… This might be the most absurd thread of the season…and that’s saying a lot.

Mahomes started with a HOF coach, HOF WR, HOF TE, pro bowl RB, and an excellent OL. For people to be in here trying to down play Allen accomplishing this when he started with Kelvin Benjamin and Clay has his WR1 and TE with a first time defensive HC on a roster being torn down and rebuilt is insane. How many TDs would Allen have if he started with multiple HOF players and coaches here in Buffalo? This need to diminish Allen by Bills fans is just crazy to me.

Huh? What post did you read cuz this comment makes no sense what so ever to me. Where did I put down Mahomes? I didn’t put him down at all, all I pointed out is that Mahomes started off his career in a substantially better situation than Allen. Thats 100% indisputable and it was light years better situation than the rebuilding Bills were the first 2 years of Allen’s career. Those are just literal facts, not at all put downs of Mahomes. Literally and honestly have no idea how you took my post as a put down of Mahomes.

Can’t believe no one mentioned Allen was mentored by Nathan Peterman and started his career with Kelvin Benjamin and Clay as his WR1 and TE. Mahomes got to start his career after sitting and learning from Alex Smith and was coached by Andy Reid and got to start with a great OL and have Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce for weapons. The circumstances in which Allen got to start his career on a rebuilding team clearing cap space are not remotely the same as the luxury Mahomes did on a playoff ready team with elite weapons and coaching around him. And Mahomes started a game as a rookie. Allen setting the NFL record despite the dumpster fire he had to work with on a rebuilding franchise his first 2 seasons is quite remarkable.

Hahaha yup

It wasn’t a brawl…it was some shouting in the tunnel.

I should change this thread title to “this was an EXCELLENT week for Beane”. Rasul and Linval have been huge gets and I still think Fournette will help this team at some point this season too.

I started calling for this a month ago… Been great watching Shakir just keep making plays, been high on him since before the draft.

Yeah it takes 2 good WRs to make up for Jefferson which sucks

I mean Devin was good here, had an excellent career YPC. Fans hated on him for no reason and wanted him gone.

But my fantasy team hasn't 😡