Alphadawg7

I think Dorsey is also a big part of this problem. Watch Josh drop back...its clear as day the short and underneath routes are not early in the progression of reads. We have a monster arm QB who can get the ball anywhere, and that is compounding the issue. Josh drops back and looking downfield first, and with his arm he is going to see tight windows he knows he can make and not be afraid to fire it like other QB's might be and never reach his open guys later in his progression that are short easy completions. This is what fundamentally needs to change. Dorsey needs to draw up plays more often like the first play of the game on the quick strike easy completion slant to Diggs right on Sauce. That was where the read was. But most of the game, Josh is doing these deep drop backs, patting the ball and looking downfield. And when our average or worse OL doesn't hold up real long, Josh gets happy feet and needs to get out of there and then it becomes more playground ball and Josh knows he can fire the ball still downfield when guys break-off routes. Until we start making the short reads the hot route or early in his progressions, Josh is never going to consistently get to those easy throws vs taking higher risk throws downfield. We need to use our guys like Diggs, Knox, Kincaid, Cook, Harty, etc to attack these short area zones and move the chains and look for RAC opportunities. There is a reason Mahomes is so efficient, its because he gets something like 30% of his production off throws near or behind the LOS. KC isn't a big rushing team either, but they use the short pass attack as essentially part of their run game. This obsession of large chunk plays needs to be reduced because they are lower percentage and easier to defend as they take time to develop downfield allowing guys to get in position and also more time for the defensive front to get through the OL.

While there are some fair points in here, its also a bit over the top and exaggerative. Our WR group stinks why? Because Allen made bad choices and didn't throw to a number of open targets on each the plays he threw an INT on? What is your evidence the WR group stinks, because the film showed our guys getting open. Kincaid and Knox don't scare defenses? You know this how? Because of one game? You don't think teams are coming into Bills games seeing a good TE in Knox who has 15 TD's the last 2 years despite his low use rate and a first round rookie TE that has shined all preseason and camp that the Bills have been saying will be a big part of the offense? I assure you, defenses are preparing to see looks of 12 personnel and Kincaid in the slot because it creates mismatches. NOW...its up to the Bills and Allen to go out and use these weapons and formations, but to say that everyone stinks is just a ridiculously over the top statement that does not reflect the game at all. However, I will say the complaints you have about the system and the way the game was called are more warranted. Dorsey's offense did not look to me to be much different from the last years offense that made everything harder. Even though guys were getting open short and underneath, on all these drop backs you can see right away they are late in the reads, not one of the early reads, making them harder for Josh to get to in his progressions. All our drop backs are deep and you can see the focus is on giving the downfield stuff to develop rather than drop back and look for a quick strike ball. To me, that is the BIGGEST issue with Dorsey and this offense. So people get frustrated when on the replay of an incomplete pass, turnover, or sack they see guys in the shorter zones running open and blame Allen. But if we have 5 recieving targets, and his first 4 reads are all downfield, he won't always get to his 5th read before he fires a ball in tight coverage, gets pushed out of the pocket or tries to run. There needs to be a major shift in our passing attack philosophy because right now, the priority is too push push push downfield and all teams need to do is take that away because we don't have a great OL and the time it takes for those guys to get downfield, the DL can get through and disrupt the passing lanes and pocket. We need to see a LOT more of what we saw on the first play of the game, quick drop slant to Diggs for an easy completion on Sauce to open the game. As much as I love seeing Allens cannon pick up chunk yards, we need to simplify the game more and give Allen easier and quicker targets. There is a reason Mahomes is so efficient, something like 30% of his yards come from throws around or behind the LOS. If we don't attack short, they will cheat deep and that always disrupts our offense. Its bad enough we arent a big rushing team, but neither is KC, they extend the run game into the pass game with all these short area passes they get chunk yards on. We need to incorporate a LOT more of that.

Who is discounting it...but facts are facts. If not for one blown assignment, Hall didn't do a whole lot in that game and neither did any of the Jets RB's. Point is, the rush D was pretty good had it not given up a big run on a blown assignment making me not very worried about our defense. If our defense holds a team to under 2 yards per carry for every running play during a game at the expense of giving up 3 points off one big run, I will take that 100% of the time.

There is nothing accurate about comparing Allen to Newton, honestly its just lazy. They are in different leagues when it comes to passing.

No disrespect intended here, but I am confused, how is it deceiving? No Super Bowl team has had a 1000 yard rusher, meaning some lead bell cow back, since 2016. I don't see what is deceiving about that when the topic of discussion is spending assets and cap space to get what is considered an elite bell cow RB. And honestly, 1000 yards is not even an accomplishment, which is just 59 yards per game today or 62.5 yards per game when it was 16 games...yet no SB winner has had one in a NFL record 7 consecutive years now. Doesn't mean I wouldn't be excited if we got JT, but I also don't think we need him nor do I want to pay him and give up assets. I would personally much rather invest the draft capital and cap space into the offensive line which would do more for this team than JT would IMHO. On 2 plays and did nothing the rest of the game though. And one of those plays was a blown assignment.

Personally, the talent is on this roster offensively and collectively at the skill positions they are in the top 10. OL is not, but it does seem to be trending better than last year. I agree, I think Allen felt the pressure to elevate his team and was pressing too much, especially after the mistakes started piling up. But, adding Taylor changes very little IMO because we just don't run even with the talent we have. We have our best RB room since Allen go here and yet we still didn't run the ball much with them combining for something like 16 carries all game in a close game where Allen was struggling. Our run design is terrible and predominantly run from the stand point of being tricky more than committing to run the ball. We still run out of non-traditional formations and Dorsey still calls draws for Allen and Cook even though we have guys like Harris and Murray better suited for those plays. I just don't see JT bringing much more to the team as long as Dorsey is OC. He can't help when he isn't getting the ball.

Pop Quiz: When was the last time a SB winner had a 1000 yard rusher? Answer: 2016. Winning a Super Bowl and having a dominant run game do not go hand in hand anymore. We don't need Taylor, we need to be smarter in how we call games (Dorsey), use our personnel (Dorsey again), and execute and make decisions on the field (Allen). None of that has anything to do with needing Jonathon Taylor.

If anyone was to make a list of the best CB's in NFL history, Deion Sanders would get plenty of votes. He was allergic to tackling, as were a lot of the best CB's since. Tre, in coverage, played pretty good last night. I am not too concerned about the tackle opportunities on a run or two where the real breakdown happened before the RB got to Tre's level in the first place. Honestly, I am not even worried about the run defense...outside those 2 Hall runs, Jets averaged like 2 yards a carry on all other attempts.

We are on same page on the coverage for sure...and yeah definitely doesn't matter by any means here, just some convo. Not clear what he is bending his thumb on, but it comes after Wilson deflects the ball as Tre's hand is about a foot away from the ball in front of his face mask not yet extended when Wilson has his whole hand on the ball to tip it away from Tre and his tight coverage. If you pause it at 22 seconds you can see Wilsons entire hand on the ball while Tre's elbow is still bent and not yet extended. All good either way, the point was the same for both of us...excellent coverage by Tre countered by an incredible play by Wilson. Can't fault Tre at all for this, especially since Wilson's first move was to prevent Tre from getting his hands on it and then just got a lucky break that it deflected to a spot he could still make the catch.

I thought so too, but then they showed the other angle and Tre never touches the ball, Wilson literally hits it himself and tips it to himself. I mean it was an incredible play by Wilson on a corner who had him blanketed with great coverage. Like I said before, I don't see how Tre can play that any better without committing PI, can't fault him for that. Wilson just made one of those unbelievable plays that did just enough to counter the great coverage. Here is the replay...when you get to 22 seconds, you see the angle that clearly shows Tre never touches the ball and that Wilson tips the ball himself to keep it away from Tre as it was in the wrong spot, but then the ball ends up where Wilson keeps his concentration and is able to still catch it too. Just an incredible all around play from the young WR to bail out his QB who didn't put the ball in a great place on that throw. https://www.espn.com.sg/video/clip?id=38382744

Replay shows that Wilson tipped the ball to himself, Tre did not actually deflect that ball. So let's be clear, Tre did not actually knock that ball away and then suddenly land with Wilson. BUT, that is not to disparage Tre, I don't know how he can defend that play any better without committing PI, it was excellent coverage. That is to highlight just how sensational of a play that really was from Wilson. I thought Tre actually played a pretty good game. Corners are not known for tackling, and the 2 long runs were on a lot more players other than Tre. But in pass defense, his primary responsibility, he looked a lot more like his old self than he did last year.

I don't disagree with much of anything here, and you're not wrong, loss is more on Josh than anyone. However, I went in really watching for the things that had me concerned from last year about Dorsey, and I just felt like I was still seeing a lot of them. For example, I am not saying run Harris/Murray more and take Cook off the field, I am saying why are we still calling draw plays into the teeth of the defense with Allen and Cook when we have better options to put out there for those kinds of plays. Cook can't break a tackle to save his life, we have always needed better ground game in terms of the tougher yards, yet we still call Cook and Allens numbers more often to get those despite Cook unable to break tackles and Allen being fumble prone and our QB who doesn't need all the additional contact as he generates enough on his own. We have these 2 matchup weapons at TE, but how many targets did they get? And I agree that Allen and his decision making is a factor here, but also we don't know where those receivers that we saw open were are in his reads. If the first 2 or 3 reads are elsewhere it could be why he isn't seeing them too before firing somewhere else where he thinks he can make the play. For example, it was a mistake to throw that 3rd pick when he had Kincaid open for the short gain for the first on the same side of the field. But if Kincaid there is like his 3rd read and he thought he had a window on his previous read, he isn't going to see Kincaid before firing the ball. There is not time to go through all your reads then come back to the one you think is the most open because they won't be open anymore. So that is where we don't really know what is going on as it feels like all the early reads are all downfield, and that is play design issues if so. Why aren't we prioritizing the short throw, why aren't they the first read or at least 2nd read more often? And you can tell they aren't because of how Josh drops back and looks downfield and gives that time to develop. If the short option was a primary read, it would be a quick strike ball like the first play of the game on the quick strike slant to Diggs on Sauce. But that just isn't the case on most plays where Allen drops back, a deep drop most times, and is first looking down field where he then tries and comes back to find a short outlet or someone breaking off a route to come back to him as he rolls out. That was one of my biggest issues last year is that the offense was way too reliant on the plays where Allen extends them and the receivers come back and break off routes. Our guys were not winning on routes initially enough and we also were looking too much to push the ball downfield. All defenses need to do now is disrupt the deep ball and our offense goes off schedule and we get into down and long too often.

All good, and look not discounting Allens poor decisions. The pick on the sideline for example where he had Kincaid open underneath for the short gain but first down is a very good example of the poor choice. Allen owns that and all 4 turnovers which were just flat out all bad choices. But the other things I mentioned in my OP still concern me about Dorsey as much as they did last year. There was supposed to be a renewed focus on running the ball and yet we are running the same style run game that has not been effective for 3 years now. Why are we running draws with Allen and Cook instead of Harris or Murray? Cook isn't a banger, not sure if he even broke a single tackle last night. Get him to the outside and in space, don't bang him up the middle. And he was drafted to be a big receiving threat, yet we barely get him any targets. Where was the 12 personnel and TE involvement we were told was being inserted into this offense? Especially against the Jets where that could attack the weakest part of the Jets D? Its one game, Allen made plenty of his own mistakes. So not going to over react one way or the other. But nothing about this offense felt different in how our pesonnel was used or how the game was called compared to last year. And that to me needs to evolve as much as Allen needs to make better decisions. I could see Dan getting into it...don't want his first gig to be here, but I could see him being an OC if he wanted to be one. But he shouldn't, he is very good on TV and will have more fun and better job security in TV lol

Dont disagree with this, however I think he has gotten worse with this under Dorsey, and that is the point I am really getting at. It feels like he is thinking about too much out there now and just isn't seeing the field like he used to before to find those better opportunities rather than forcing them.

He definitely did not look comfortable in the pocket or that the protection would hold up. There were times I thought the protection looked good and he tried to leave the pocket anyway. Its like he had PTSD from the Bengals game and just didn't trust it to hold when he saw any sort of potential pressure.

This couldnt go in one of the many Allen threads? You needed your own thread for this? lol

No disrespect, but did you read my OP to start this thread? Because I was pretty specific there

This is fair, but why is Allen now not seeing those, why isn't he as comfortable in the offense? I just think that Allen is not playing as free and instinctively as he was in years prior since Dorsey took over at OC. And like I said, Allen doesn't any excuses here, he made poor decisions, thats on him. But the other issues I listed with Dorsey are still their own concerns as well.

Does anyone realize that outside of the 2 runs by Hall (83 and 19), the Jets averaged like 2 yards per carry? I get no one likes to see the big runs, but at the same time overall the defense did pretty good against the run almost the entirety of the game with exception to 2 plays. I am not so much concerned about the run D, more so than I am about MLB which IMHO will be stabilized some once Kirskey gets elevated to roster and takes over the starting MIKE spot, which I expect to be inside the next few weeks at worst.

Fair points here...and still comes back to is Dorsey the right guy to oversee Allen and Diggs prime years. He has no experience as an OC until now, and how is he going to handle coaching Josh moving forward to get him back to where he was because Allen looks less sure out there even on successful plays than he did in years past.

Fair, but I was already complaining about Dorsey all first half when Allen just had the one INT. Me and some buddies all were saying the same thing...it doesn't feel like Dorsey evolved much from last year in how he calls plays. If we win that game and Allen has just the one INT and Dorsey calls the same game, I still would have the same concerns that I mentioned above in my OP. I hope to see more next week, and Allen playing better will help evaluate it for sure. But Dorsey was one of the things I was watching the most coming into this game and what I saw from the offense in design, play calling, and use of personnel and I came away feeling like a repeat of last year.

Last night Allen had one of his worst games in a long time. So this is NOT to shift any responsibility of that from him to anyone else, Allen gets to own that performance, no excuses. There were times where he was looking good and then all of a sudden this terrible decision happens to undo it all and give the ball away, he just can't do that. However, I came away just as concerned with Dorsey and his play calling and use of personnel that I was last year. Just to name a few: We go out and sign Harris and Murray then still call draws up the middle by our QB and small sized RB? Where were all the 2 TE sets to put pressure on the weaker part of the Jets D? Why are all our WRs running 15 yard deep routes on 3rd and short with only a RB underneath? Where are the screens to guys like Cook, Harty, Diggs? Why are we running on 2nd and 15 when we have the number offense over the past 3 years on picking up down and long plays via pass? Where was the quick strike stuff we opened the game with Diggs on Sauce for the first play and completion? Why are we still trying to force a run game from unconventional formations that didn't work in the past? I am not going to blame Dorsey for Allens poor decisions, those were all on Allen. But, at the same time, I have not felt like Allen has played as free or instinctively under Dorsey as he did under Daboll. I think about Mahomes in KC, when you watch the show Quarterback you just get some insight on just how involved Mahomes and the other players are in helping shape the offense and that its completely catered around everything Mahomes does best. And more importantly, they give Mahomes a ton of options short and underneath with easy throws for RAC which is why he leads the NFL in most yards gained every year on throws near or behind the LOS and he leads by a mile. Since Dorsey got here, it feels more like trying to change Allen's instincts and thought process to be something different rather than leaning into what he does best like Daboll did. I have long been concerned about risking Allen and Diggs prime on an unproven first time OC. Last year I thought Dorsey was pretty bad in many facets of his job, especially in play calling inside the redzone and his use of personnel. Week 1, nothing that happened changed those concerns. Everything I was frustrated about last year in how this offense was run still all seemed present to me. Allen needs to be better with the football and stop trying to score on every play, there is no doubt about that. But I also think our OC isn't doing him any favors either. There is no way this team can take a step forward if Dorsey doesn't evolve positively from last year. Week 1 felt like not much had changed, hope that doesn't continue.

You are going to get a lot of crap by the usual group that is negative 365 days a year and this is like Christmas to them as they much rather be right about pessimism than see the Bills succeed. But, coming into this game, looking at the schedule, week 1 felt like a game we could lose and then potentially win the next 7 heading into a big test in week 8. And I still think we could do that, and honestly somewhat expect that and I think we will find out week 2 how plausible it is. Are we going to see a big rebound game from Josh, or will we win more like we won a lot of games last year...not clean, kind of a struggle.? If Josh has a big bounce back game, I think winning the next 7 is plausiuble. If we win, but its a close game where everything on the offense just feels more difficult than it should, kind of like the back half of last year, then I think we got bigger problems and all of a sudden every game gets tougher than it should, again much like last year. I am never one to over emphasize early season games, but right now week 2 feels awfully important. They need to find their swagger again, and fast. This team needs a refreshing dominant win, at least offensively before their confidence starts to fade, frustrations set in, and guys keep pressing too much like Allen was.

My first thought when I saw that play and then reassured again on replay was that Josh's hurdle there felt more like his instinct to get the ball out of the way of contact and wrap it up to protect it more than trying to get more yards. It just looked like he realized he was in a bad predicament without the ball properly secured with no way to avoid the contact and he went up to try and avoid a potential fumble on contact to get the ball above the defenders and secured more in his arms. If you watch the replay, this to me seems the most plausible reason. Now...that does highlight another issue which is how he can recklessly hold the ball when running that has led to way too many fumbles given how much contact he takes and initiates on runs. But, I think this needless hurdle was his instinctive way to secure the football by getting it above the contact and secured with two arms when he realized he was about to get hit by 3 guys while he had the ball just palmed in his hand. https://x.com/JakeLBeckman/status/1701409336419926340?s=20

Yeah, I immediately said to my friends here “WTF, he said all off season he was gonna stop that and here he is”. I love Allens heart and leaving it all on the line mentality…but stuff like that is so unnecessary and he needs to just avoid. When it happened, I said I think he did it to avoid fumbling as he wasn’t protecting the ball and it was like he went over the top to keep the ball from potentially getting knocked out of his hands. Which is in itself it’s own problem if why where he doesn’t properly protect the ball when running