Alphadawg7

To be clear, I am not dumping on Herbert to say he isn't a good QB...but it does irk me quite a bit when I see people listing Herbert ahead of Allen on who is the better QB like I saw after week 1 Jets game. But I really only started this thread more out of surprise to see that he didn't even have a winning record despite having enough talent around him that it feels like he should have. Its one thing they haven't made the playoffs yet in a tough AFC conference, but just had not realized he didn't even have a winning record.

And I agree with you...I think its unquestioned they are the top 3 right now...however, that is not always the narrative as much anymore specifically around Allen both in sports media and even here by some posters. In fact, after the Bengals loss and Jets game, the narrative has been that not only is Burrow "now" the unquestioned 2nd best QB, that Allen may not even be 3rd with guys like Herbert, Lawerence, etc entering the convo for those detractors. In fact, a common narrative has been that Bills haven't gotten over the hump and reached the Super Bowl because of Allens turnovers in big moments, which would mean the playoffs, even though Allen has 20 TDs to just 4 Turnovers in his post season career. That includes the last 2 playoff exits where he had 0 turnovers in the loss to KC and just 1 in the Cincy game last year that was on the last play of the game down 3 scores on a heave down field in bad weather...which had no bearing or impact on that game what so ever. So the narrative of its Allens turnovers is completely false, yet the narrative persists. Meanwhile, guys like Herbert who can't even make the playoffs and has a losing record and Burrow who is worse in almost every statistical metric in the postseason than Josh, including turnover rate, don't get the same ridicule and criticism as Josh. I mean Josh has 8 playoff games, and Burrow has 7...Josh averages over 80 yards more per game, more than 1 TD more per game, and double his TD-TO ratio at 5 to 1 compared to Burrows 2.5 to 1. Furthermore, Burrow only has 3 less INT's than Josh the past 2 regular seasons =, and only 2 less if you count the postseason. Burrow isn't being questioned about his interceptions though even though he has had a superior cast of weapons, in fact, one of the best cast of weapons in the whole NFL. Yet these narratives and criticisms remain at a much harsher level for Josh than Herbert and Burrow have faced despite the fact that as a QB, Josh has accomplished much more than them on an individual level both in regular season and post season performances.

Did you watch the Chargers game when they were in a win and you are in position against the Raiders? Herbert didn't get the job done...he can amass stats, but he has trouble winning IMHO. Let me ask you this...do you believe the Chargers have the same losing record had Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, or Rogers been the QB over those 52 games and no playoff appearances? If you honestly think yes they do have the same record (or worse), then sure the defense can be the excuse. But if not, then its not a strong enough excuse to dismiss the fact he has not made the playoffs and has a sub .500 record after 52 games.

Here is the counter point: KC produces about 30% of their offense from passes near or behind the LOS. No one calls them a dink and dunk offense, its a highly effective part of their offensive design. And while I don't disagree that Chargers tend to use Ekeler a lot as a dump off option, that is more of OC issue and offensive design problem than say a limitation in Ekelers ability or decline in his skills as a RB IMHO. In the couple posts I have read so far of yours here, you seem to talk more on the recent state of his weapons rather than the quality of his weapons of his career when guys like Allen were in their prime. I mean he has been a top 15, and arguably top 10, WR most of his career and Ekeler has certainly been a top 10 RB (arguably top 5 at times) and one of the best receiving backs since becoming a feature RB. And I don't really disagree about your assessment today per se, but there is no way we can say Justin has not had enough to work with to post a winning record over 52 games or make the playoffs. Here is a fun question: Do the Chargers have a winning record and at least reach the playoffs had Mahomes had been the QB over those 52 games? What about Allen? Burrow? Rogers? I have a hard time seeing any of those QB's post a losing record over 52 games with those players to work with on offense, bad coaching and all. So for me: His weapons are not a viable excuse for his losing record. Lesser QB's have done more with less.

While I agree with most of what you are saying, your negative spin on his weapons is more reflective of THIS year than his previous years that make up the majority of his 52 starts. Ekeler is a great RB, I watch a lot of him, he is a very good runner and receiver and doesn't get the credit he deserves IMHO as one of the better RB's overall in the NFL. He does from the fantasy football community, but when people talk about the best backs in the league, he doesn't get as much recognition as he should IMHO. And what you say about Allen is true THIS year...but Justin has been in the league since Allen was in his prime. So, while you are not wrong on Allen right now, your assessment is not a reflection of the whole 52 games they have played together where Allen was arguably a top 10, definitely top 15, WR for a period Justins career. And I have felt Mike Williams was grossly over paid from the moment he got that contract, but...he is no slouch either. And they have other supporting players around these guys who have been solid too over the years. Point is, there are a lot of QB's working with a lot less than Justin has been working with who have amassed better records than him and reached the playoffs across the NFL. And while coaching has certainly been an issue, Herbert has also not been a guy who has gotten it done either when it mattered despite having enough talent on that team to do it.

Yeah I agree the coaching is a joke...I am stunned Staley wasn't fired after weeks 1 and 2. Its like he has majored in how to lose games. Like I said, not putting it all on Herbert by any means, but geesh, I was shocked when I saw he actually has a losing record given the amount of talent he has around him and the level he has played it. Seems like bad coaching or not, he should at least be over .500 after 52 games. I mean Trubisky had even worse coaching in Chicago, they didn't even try and develop him, and he had no talent around him there...but he has a winning record and took Chicago to the playoffs. So was just a little surprised to see just how little he and the Chargers have won despite a loaded offense.

Saw this stat earlier tonight about Justin Herberts record after 52 games. And this is a guy making $262.5M and that since entering the NFL he has had a potent stable of weapons including Keenan Allen, Mike Williams, Austin Ekeler, and more. These are some of the QB's who have better records than him after 52 starts: Mark Sanchez: 31-21 Andy Dalton: 31-21 Mitch Trubisky: 29-23 Carson Wentz: 28-24 Teddy Bridgewater: 28-24 Baker Mayfield: 27-25 Matt Cassel: 27-25 Tyrod Taylor: 26-25-1 ______________________________ Justin Herbert: 25-27 I know that W/L records are not all on a QB...but that is a pretty pitiful record for a guy making $262.5M and playing with the kind of weapons he has had around him. Just sayin'

We play Washington this week because we play the NFC East this year. But yes, you are right still about 2025 thanks for pointing that out. I forgot the 17th opponent is not listed yet past 2024 because it can't be determined until next year. It's a non-conference game from a division we are not already playing that season, and its chosen based on the previous years divisional rankings, so you are correct that it can be Dallas in any season we not facing the NFCE with the earliest being 2025 also making 2026 a possibility too. Still, if that does happen, the matchup would not have been as good as prime Stefon vs prime Trevon. But, would still be cool to see (assuming they haven't already faced off in a SB in 2024).

I cant speak for anyone else...but just because I am not terrified of them and their offense it doesn't also mean I am taking them lightly. I recognize they can be a dangerous opponent, I mean its a divisional rival and playoff contender. Still doesn't mean I don't think we are the better overall team. Yes, fins got lots of firepower, but they also went on a 5 game losing streak last year with Tua that people forget where his turnovers and decisions were the main cause of those losses. And head to head, he averaged just 201 yards against us which included a game where we were without our entire starting secondary and our interior DL. I just believe we are the better team on both sides of the ball. I mean, I will take our set of offensive players led by Allen over their set of offensive players led by Tua 100% of the time. And our defense has always been better than theirs, and still is this year.

Bills don't play the Cowboys again until 2027...that means this was the only real chance for Diggs vs Diggs to happen unless Bills play the Cowboys in the Superbowl in one of the next few years since Trevon would miss it if it was even this year. Diggs family, especially the brothers must be devastated

Damn this sucks. Thankfully I missed the troll headline at first so I did't have a stroke...in fact my wife first text me that Trevon Diggs tore his ACL and I still had to ask "Dallas right" to make sure she didn't type the wrong name. So by time I came here, thread title was corrected. As a football junkie, I was very much looking forward to seeing Diggs vs Diggs and I know they both had to be as well. What a great moment that would have been for them too as brothers to have both reached the NFL becoming amongst the best at what they do and literally playing opposing positions to where they go head to head in the matchup as CB1 vs WR1. That just doesn't happen very often, if ever. Just a tragic loss for everyone from Trevon and the Diggs family, Cowboys, and just fans who love football. NOTE: Bills don't play Cowboys again until 2027, which Stefon is likely done by then. That means this was their only shot outside meeting in a Super Bowl (which this year is now off the table for that too) in the next few seasons to play against each other. What a shame and loss for 2 guys who spent their whole lives going against each other and now likely missing out doing it on the biggest stage.

Im not acting like they are a mediocre team. Im pointing out for all the fear everyone has Tua averaged 201 yards against us last year and Hill was held in check while we had a plethora of injuries. Do you realize that in week 3 the Bills were without the entire starting secondary? Hyde, Poyer, and Dane missed that game and Tre was still on IR which meant our starting corners facing Hill and Waddle were 2 rookies. Plus Oliver and Phillips missed that game along with Morse on the offense. And by the 4 the quarter we had 13 starters out of that game between inactives, injuries and heat issues? And the ones playing were struggling with extreme heat issues themselves. Yet we dominated the clock still in that game and held Tua to under 200 yards passing despite missing our entire starting secondary that game. Sorry, I’m not scared of their offense. Doesn’t mean they don’t have a good one or are some mediocre team, just means I am not going into the game thinking we can’t handle their offense, especially if Allen and the offense can move the ball like they did last week chewing up long drives and clock time.

Everyone is so worried about Miami...in 2 games agasint Tua last year he averaged 201 yards passing against us. And that was with our secondary banged up with injuries.

Only one I like is Pat McAfee. The rest are mostly unwatchable

I would much rather have McD...but...for all the SP hate...the Broncos lead the NFL points per drive. They only had 6 drives against Raiders though. Their issue is their defense, not something SP is known for. But offensively, they lead the NFL in scoring per drive despite their top WR Jeudy missing week 1 too. So he has made an impact already on the offensive side of the ball there in Denver.

As I said all offseason...Bengals won't win that division and Burrow is overrated. Not saying he isn't good, but he isn't as good as he is made out to be. He gets over hyped because the Bengals reached the SB once behind his defense shutting down Mahomes to 3 points in the 2nd half of the AFCCG.

I wasn’t as down on him as everyone else, was actually intrigued after he was drafted. But with him getting hurt, signing Kirksey, and how bad Dodson was looking, I came into the season thinking Kirksey was signed to be the starter as soon as he was up to speed. But now, I am quite encouraged with what we have seen so far. I’m still not going to jump the gun here and get too ahead of ourselves as we haven't exactly faced potent offenses yet, but the kid has definitely surprised with how well he has started the season. Im looking forward to seeing how he continues to do as it’s been fun seeing him start the season so strong.

It’s cuz we are not as old as those people like to say we are and we have lots of young talent or talent in their prime

Maybe Dorsey finally got his head out of his backside

Lmao…Allen and it’s not close

Appreciate the data work. But…You just can’t analyze Josh as a QB and not factor his rushing TDs and production. Any such comparison is incomplete and presents false conclusions.

31/37 and 3 TDs. Trade him. 😂

It wasn't truly 12 personnel though like in the traditional sense...they count it every time Knox and Kincaid are on the field at same time. But Kincaid most often was lined up as a WR and wasn't really being run like a traditional 12 personnel formation. So how many times we ran it is technically correct, but we used it as a Beanes says more like 11.5 personnel. Essentially Kincaid is just a 3rd WR out there more than a 2nd TE.

Week 1 - A grade. ***No Rodgers makes it a situation where we can't take too much away off one game though. But outside of a player mistake on the long run, the defense held its own quite well IMHO.

There is 0% chance @Airseven is an actual Bills fan and this was a hilariously spot on reference 😂