Alphadawg7

We alrady have Jeudy...his name is Gabe Davis and he catches more TD's than Jeudy does. Not that interested in adding him. Better plan...lets someone sit Dorsey down and teach him how to use the actual weapons here like Kincaid more. Then if we make a trade, its to bolster someplace we actually have a deficiency at right now.

Yup, and those people were crazy iMO for suggesting it...I mean AJE quietly had 6.5 sacks last year playing part time and for a DC allergic to creating sacks on the QB. Speaking of Boogie...doesnt seem like he is doing much with NYG either...we clearly made the right choice

I mean we did sign Rapp, so I don't think its fair to say we "trusted 2 old safeties" as they did bring in more depth and help there and Rapp would start on several teams. Also, hard to fault any of Beanes decisions on the defense when after 4 weeks we were first in Interceptions, takeaways and sacks plus 2nd in points allowed. This included being the only D that held the Miami offense in check all season. Injuries like you said are outside of his control, but even after being down those guys early, this defense still had only surrendered 11 points late into the 4th quarter while playing a fresher team in London. So the depth and quality of the players on this team is a credit to Beane. I know you are not knocking Beane, just expanding on these comments. PS: Not directed at you per se...but to those upset he "missed" on Elam...I mean is that even a fair assessment this soon? Elam was solid and contributed down the stretch last year...so everyone is now saying we missed on him is based on him not being active yet this year and off his first game since last January. But there is plenty of time for Elam to continue to develop and to call him a miss this early is premature IMHO. Go back a few weeks ago and most people were still saying we missed on AJE...yet here he is playing at a high level finally getting some chances to get real reps and get out from being buried. For all we know, as the season goes on Elam may do just the same as she showed plenty of potential as a rookie last year and then got buried behind some pretty good corners in Tre, Benford, and Dane coming into this season as he still had some stuff to work on.

All fair points as well bud

I don't disagree with any of that...but that doesn't change the mathematical realities facing this team specifically about winning the division I was discussing. Like I said in my last post, we each have 12 games remaining, one of which is against each other in the last game of the season and Miami currently has a 1 game lead on us. For us to for sure win the division, we need to at least match their win total over the next 11 games. There is no path to the divisional title if Miami has a better record than us in the next 11 games. Week 17 win: If we do at the every least match their win total in the next 11 games and win in week 17, then we have a tied record with the head to head tie breaker having swept the series. Week 17 loss: The only way we can win the division while losing week 17 is if Miami finishes with a worse record than us even with a win in week 17 by them. That means the Fins must lose 3 more games than us in the next 11 games, which doesn't seem likely barring injuries to key players. So my post wasn't about whether we can still be a good team or not, it was about the difficulty of winning the division just went up significantly between 2 bad losses to Jets and Jags coupled with losing 3 key players on defense. There is no margin of error, we have to match Miami win for win over the next 11 games.

The only way they trade AJE is if they already decided he isn't a long term plans kind of player. And I doubt they have made that decision after he is having a breakout through these injury opportunities. Him and Groot could anchor our Edge rush a long time if he keeps playing at this level and shows its not just some little short lived hot streak.

Tre, Milano, Daquan...our 3 best players at each level of the D. I hate to say it, but winning the division just became very difficult. We are already a game behind Miami and still have to face them again in Miami. Jones and Milano were huge in our win the first time, missing them and Tre automatically for the rematch already dramatically changes that matchup. We each have 12 games left, one of those is the second head to head in Miami. If Dolphins win that rematch, that would mean they would have a 2 game lead on us and a better divisional record, meaning we would need to win 3 more games than them over the other remaining 11 games. So Miami would need to go 8-3 and we would need to be 11-0 over those 11 games which we face Chiefs, Eagles, and Bengals still amongst others. We already have 2 losses to mid-tier teams as it is. And if we lose even 1 of those games, that means Miami then needs to go 7-4 in their 11 games. Now if we beat Miami again, then winning the division gets a little more achievable, but would still have very little margin of error as we would still need to at least match Miamis record over the other 11 games. If they win even 1 more game than us, they still win the division. And if Miami wins the division, that means a probable playoff game in Miami where we won't have weather to help counter some of that speed and will likely be down at least 3 of our best players on defense (unless Milano or Jones can make it back for playoffs). So the hard truth here is that the 2 losses vs Jets and Jags which we should have won now loom large divisionally, and to add to our challenge we must be near perfect the rest of the season to realistic have a shot at winning the division without at least 3 of our best defensive players.

Davis also had a 2nd drive killing bad drop on 3rd down. But, an unrelated penalty negated the play so the drop is wiped from his resume, but doesn't change the fact he dropped a 2nd drive killing pass on 3rd down.

Yes, this is the play I am referring to that was one of our first few drives.

All fair points prior to today. But week in and week out of winning on that football field this season, Daquan is of higher importance of being on the field than Von given the players we have at Edge already and the importance of Jones in the middle.

No disresptect...but let me update your list. 1. Matt Milano 2. Daquan Jones . . 3. Tre White 4. Von Miller I love Tre White and Von Miller...but their importance to this team are not on the same level as Milano and Jones right now. Jones has been the best DT in football the first 4 weeks and was hurt doing what he does blowing up 3rd down to force 3 and out on the first drive. This team can live without Tre and proven that as Bills have had statisticaly the best secondary in the NFL over the past 3 seasons coming in despite Tre missing basically a season and a half of that between the injury and then not being near himself when he first returned. Von, while he was great last year before being hurt, isn't nearly as essential this year with Floyd here, Groot growing more, and AJE emerging. So while I am excited to see if he can get back, even if he does, the pass rush isn't going to get the same boost given how well the others are playing compared to how much Milano boosts the defense when he is on the field and Jones boosts the interior play at DT when he is.

Im not gonna dispute the fact this team tends to start slow...I say it all the time, the defense tends to give up an early easy TD before it clamps down. Never understood why, on one hand its good to see in game adjustments work so often, but what is going wrong in the pregame script that keeps the players and D from coming out that way is a legit question. But this defense has been amongst the the best in the NFL this year and much better under McD than Frazier To slam the D like the OP is...well...its just absurd. No team is perfect, plenty of things anyone can nit pick at with any team most weeks. But the defense has been great. We lost against the Jets because of Dorsey and Allens poor decisions pressing too hard. We lost against the Jags because Dorsey is a moron and went away from everything we excel at...again. That is the point here...to point fingers at the defense who still kept the Jags at 11 points late into the 4th missing 5 of its best players is incredibly misguided.

Wait...wait..wait...did you just double down on this already horrible take by slamming the D in the previous 4 weeks too? The same D giving up the 2nd fewest points in the NFL with the most sacks, turnovers, and interceptions in the league??? The only D to shut down Miami too? The same D that held Hill to 3 catches for like 53 yards? The fist D to sack Tua all year? Wow...just when I thought this take couldn't go and get worse you one up it. Kudos, didn't see that coming

Let me see if I understand you...the defense losing its best players is an excuse...the same defense who entered the London game BEFORE losing most those players was: 2nd fewest points allowed Largest margin of victory in NFL First in sacks First in Interception First in takeaways And that is despite the fact we faced the top offense in the NFL in Miami, still the only team to shut them down and first to sack Tua. But its an excuse when that same defense enters the game missing its starting corners in Tre and Benford and its best DE in Groot...then loses its best overall player in Milano and what had been the best DT in the NFL so far this year in Jones. That is an excuse? Guys who missed the game, exited the game, or had to miss plays in the game with injuries or other issues: Tre, Benford, Groot, Milano, Jones, Von, Taron, and AJE. I mean, that wouldn't be a terrible start to a pro bowl roster, and that is an excuse? And YET we still had only gave up 11 points until late into the 4th quarter. Come on...this thread is unreal. The defense was utterly gutted and devastated Sunday. Jones played 4 snaps for crying out loud, one of which where he got hurt was a massive tackle for loss to force a 3 and out. Excuses...you mean facts.

Yeah...ummmm...I think your expectations are a tad high on this one. Glad he is here for depth, but hoping he will go out there and shine suddenly after over a decade in the league feels like a reach

This. I mean I don't really understand how this thread can even exist today TBH

Fair points all around there. Still doesn't change my concern about what it will be like to play Miami in Miami down Tre, Milano, and possibly Jones for the whole game. Like you said, you would expect Allen to put up 50 there...Tua and that offense have the same capability to capitalize on those players missing. Not to mention the other tough offenses in the AFC and NFC we will face down the stretch, playoffs, or Super Bowl if we reached it. Don't get me wrong, I am still optimistic the defense can still be good enough, but at the same time, Dorsey and this offense need to be on point moving forward, and my confidence in Dorsey is not very high right now.

I can't find anything as of yet, but all the talk has been as if we are losing him for the season. Just wondering if it's been confirmed yet or not that he did tear his pec. I know I have been operating off the assumption he is lost for the season, but that is just soley based on everyone else's talk like he is, yet I still can't find anything that says he is actually out for the season and the pec is torn. Hoping it is still possible its a strain or something versus it being a torn pec...so am I missing something, or is it still possible he isn't lost for the season?

You are not wrong, and I am optimistic about even Dorian who I felt looked pretty solid considering the situation. But end of the day, it was the Jags who don't have a good OL, who haven't been a good offense, and Trevor hasn't been very good all year. We still got gashed by Etienne and lost the game. We still couldn't stop the air attack at times and got saved multiple times by penalties by the Jags negating good plays and taking negative yards and putting them behind the sticks where our defense could make more of an impact. I am much more concerned about the loss of Jones when we face teams like Eagles, Chiefs, Miami, and even the Bengals (whose offense looked substantially better this week). I mean think about the Dolphins game alone. If we had played last week without Milano and Jones, I think that is potentially a much different game. Maybe we still win because Allen and the O were perfect, but it sure wouldn't have been a blow out. I mean Jones and Milano were huge reasons why the defense turned it around after giving up those first 2 TD's with little resistance. Next time we face Miami we wont have the best player at all 3 levels of our defense in Tre, Milano, and Jones. And those are the ones just guaranteed to not play, who knows if anyone else will be dealing with any injuries that week, those are just the guys we today know for sure won't play. That means we are going to need Allen and the O to be near perfect again. And we can't win this division without sweeping Miami IMO unless Miami goes on another skid like last year as they are already up a game on us as it is, but its hard to see where they do it looking at their remaining schedule. And going into Miami down Tre, Milano, and Jones makes that game a lot different than this last time we played them.

Agreed, your point remains, the offense is still good. But to be fair, Josh has taken plenty of criticism, even more than he often deserves at times. And in regards to the OC...Great QB's have made a lot of "OC's" look better than they were, its not new and rather common.

I saw someone in another thread talk about how he felt he looked good out there...and I was confused because I couldn't recall seeing him do much of anything out there. There was one play where Von ran such a rounded wide rush at the QB he was at least 10 to 15 yards away by the time the QB threw the ball. It was so wide it looked like he was almost running to the flat to cover a backwards pass screen, except there was no RB or WR in the vicinity. Im glad he is back, but I don't think he should be anything right now other than the 4th guy in the rotation. Groot, Floyd, and AJE have been very good, and I especially don't want to take AJE off the field right now in favor of a 34 DE trying to get his legs back after a torn ACL. AJE is in a contract year, and making an impact with the opportunities he is finally getting after basically being buried here since getting drafted. I would rather see what he can keep doing so we know if we should try and keep him as part of the future here or not this offseason. Let Von slowly get into shape to be at his best come playoff time. This past offseason I kept saying AJE is better than people think and could start or compete to start on many other teams, but the kid has just been buried since arriving in Buffalo and not gotten a real opportunity to play significant minutes. And so far, he is making the most out of those opportunities and I would like to see if he can keep it up as the season progresses before we need to make a decision on trying to retain him or let him walk. And because of the high level play of Groot, Floyd, and AJE...the return of Von feels less impactful, even if successful, compared to the loss of Tre, Milano, and possibly Jones for the season.

Agree, our DL has been very good and amongst the best in the NFL this year. This is where I disagree. Jones loss is big, maybe almost as big as Milano. The impact of losing Jones will be felt on all 3 levels of the defense. Those guys wreaking havoc as you mentioned above is true, but Jones impact has been a big reason why. His ability to wreck the middle and bring pressure there makes the jobs of Ed and the edge guys so much easier to get home. It disrupts the center of the pocket and timing of the QB to buy time for the others to get there if Jones doesn't get there himself. Not only does this help the upfront guys coming after the QB, but it often forces the QB into rushed or ill advised throws creating opportunities for the back end of the defense to make plays, PBU's, and interceptions. We were leading the league in Interceptions, Turnovers, and Sacks heading into the London game, and Jones impact was a big reason why. He was arguably the best DT in the NFL this season in terms of his level of play thus far. Im not saying we are doomed, but if we have lost Jones for the season, its a substantial loss. I said in another thread, we lost our best player at each level of the defense in Tre at CB, Milano at LB, and Jones on the DL (he has been the best player on the DL this year). And while Milano is the biggest loss, Jones is almost as bad. In fact, I would not hesitate to take Jones back over Tre if given the choice to get one of them back right now. Not a knock on Tre, but this team is better equipped for life without Tre than life without Jones who impacts the game more overall than Tre does.

Fixed. I don't think Dorseys offense he designed is really good conceptually, I think its more a function of us having an elite QB and he making any offense we run score points.

I mean its 2 totally different offenses. We are a pass first offense that runs the ball for balance at most. Colts are a run first team where running the ball is a focal point of their offense and have the OL to execute that. And best ability is avail-ability and Moss unfortunately kept getting injuries anytime he started to look like he could finally challenge Devin for touches. People forget, Devin had a very good YPC here, its not like Moss was behind a guy who wasn't effective at all. There just were not a lot of touches to go around here, so when you keep getting hurt and losing ground to the guy ahead of you, it further diminishes your opportunities. Not to diminish what Moss has done there, but there are a lot of RB's in the NFL that could go to Colts and do more with those opportunities than their current respective teams who don't have the level of OL Colts have and don't make running the ball a focal point of the offense every week like the Colts do. Right now, I wonder if Colts keep him and try and move him to a team that really could use some RB help and try and get some draft capital to keep building around their young QB and Taylor. There are some teams I could see making calls for him, probably the most obvious would be the Ravens.

I mean you don't know what McD has or hasn't said to Dorsey. When Daboll was here, McD started calling him out in press conferences by saying they need to run the ball more and establish a run game even though Daboll was allergic to runniung the ball. Daboll still didn't do it, and probably why there were reports of friction between the two. McD can tell Dorsey whatever he wants, but on gameday, Dorsey is in the booth calling the offense. And Dorsey can say he is calling these, the guys just arent executing. So I just don't think its fair to hang offensive play calling on McD right now, especially when we are the 2nd highest scoring team in the league and coming off 3 straight wins of 28+ points or more. Not shocking the HC won't be meddling in the OC's offense when its amongst the best in the league. McD has his hands full between HC and DC responsibilities.