Alphadawg7

I have more of an issue with 0 targets for the RB's and the over use of 12 Personnel when we are not throwing to the TE's.

No disrespect here....but this "offense is ranked 3rd" excuse for Dorsey makes no sense to me. And to be clear, they were the highest scoring offense over the 2 year window before Dorsey, which were Allens first 2 seasons playing at an elite level. Point is, you are excusing Dorsey for any responsibility of the offensive struggles because of the "offensive ranking". And that ranking has almost nothing to do with Dorsey, any OC off the street could come in and it would still be a top 5 offense because of Allen and Diggs. So this whole narrative that it is silly to be upset with the OC when the offense is ranked 3rd...which is that even true after this week...just makes no sense as an excuse to defend Dorsey as it has no context at all about Dorseys actual performance vs what an Allen led offense is going to always be able to do regardless. For example...why did Dorsey on inches and goal call a run out of a shotgun formation that started on the 6 yard line? Everyone else in the world sneaks that with Allen for a near certain TD there every time. Or at least runs with the QB under center so the exchange happes closer to the LOS where the RB hits the hole with momentum and speed. It was maybe the dumbest call I have seen since Dorsey got here, and unfortuantely he has a LOT of competition for his worst calls as he does them almost every week. We went and drafted Cook to be a recieving RB out of the backfield...yet 0...literally 0 targets to the RB's yesterday. We spent a ton of money on Knox...traded up for Kincaid...yet we got these guys avg 7 yards per catch because Dorsey cant get them involved down field. We run an insane amount of "12 personnel" yet we are not using the TE's as weapons much. Josh Allen has been substantially more effective under center all year and yet every play is still Allen back in the shotgun. He often gets away from running the ball until the pass game isn't working as oppossed to using the run game as more of our offense. What about the other personnel? Shakir keeps making plays when called upon, but we are constantly running 12 personnel and taking Shakir off the field even though we aren't really using the 12 personnel at all to our advantage. So why do it? If we aren't throwing down field to our TE's at all, then get Shakir and Sherfield more snaps with Diggs and Davis. I could keep going...but the point is, Dorsey is not doing a lot of things well and its a problem IMHO. This is 2 weeks in a row the offense had 7 points only halfway through the 4th quarter...against the Jags and Giants too who are not very good teams.

You mean the OC who inherited the number one offense in the NFL over the previous 2 years before him? So at least you’re admitting the offense is worse under Dorsey And hate to break it you, Dorsey is not why the offense is ranked #3…go ask McDaniels what life as an OC and HC is like without Brady. Brady made him, he has literally failed and stunk as both an OC and HC in 4 other jobs since he got to be a “great OC” with Brady. So yeah, sorry not buying into this concept that Dorsey is the magic sauce for our #3 ranked offense that struggled to score on Jags and Giants. Dorsey is a big part of our problem

This is really my whole point here. We need Josh to be able to make those plays right now because our OC and the guys around him aren't consistent enough outside of Diggs. I think it has a lot to do with Dorsey personally because I think there is enough talent here to be better than we are showing. This is 2 straight weeks of the offense having issues, Dorsey not having a plan, Dorsey not adjusting well and Dorsey getting away from the things statistically the offense does best. Allen under center is statistically sensational this year...but Dorsey is obsessed with the gun. Even on goal and inches with a Saquatch as your QB he tries to run from gun where the RB gets the ball 5 yards behind the LOS. But I have seen Josh pull up when he should have ran...look for the short dump when he had guys running wide open in the middle coming back to him uncovered...etc. These are plays he has made to mask the deficiencies of the offense in the past, now he isn't looking for them as often anymore. And the offense needs those plays to overcome the shortcomings of the roster and OC. I don't want to see those awful designed runs, I mean he just isn't pulling the trigger when the running opportunities are there when he doesn't have guys down field or he gets flushed out of the pocket. Or he isn't looking to the middle or other side of the field to make those crazy throws when there are guys there and instead just taking a short loss/run, check down, or throw away. He doesn't need to be reckless, but dont want to see him gun shy either.

4-2 and should be 3-3

What makes it the best year of his career? Higher comp %? Again, I didn't say stop taking what the defense gives him, but we also need to stop coaching out of him the things that make him special.

I take nothing away from this game personally given the Giants haven't scored an offensive TD in many moons now lol. So hard to say how well our D in general will play against a valid offense because the Giants are pretty inept.

The most disturbing thing I heard during the game last night was the commentators talk about how Josh talked about how he doesn't make those crazy plays anymore and stuff. Basically talking about taming down his game. There has been so much made about his "turnovers" after the Jets game that now Josh is holding back when it comes to the things that makes Josh special. Josh doesn't just make a wow OMG insane play once in a while, he makes them many times a game be it with his arm or his legs. But ever since the Jets game where he made a few mistakes, there is this HUGE push to tame Josh and its not just the media, Josh is saying it himself. But the reality is, those "turnovers" have NOT been the issue for us...Josh being super man has NOT been the issue for us as to WHY we haven't made a Super Bowl yet. In fact, they have been the ONLY reason we were even in the conversation for one. 2021 - the first season where SB expectations were realistic and high coming off Josh's first breakout year he was INSANE in the playoffs. Our defense got us bounced when he out dueled Mahomes but the limp defense folded in both 13 seconds and OT. 2022 - the loss to Bengals was a team loss. Being an air it out offense, we have been known to struggle in the bad weather games offensively because we couldn't run the ball. The OL was terrible, Bengals dominated the trenches on both sides of the ball, and everyone had a bad game. We didn't lose because of Josh "trying to be Superman"...this team just got its a** kicked in every facet of the game. So why are we trying to tame Josh? Many times a game we extend drives or score because Josh did something unbelievable. I am all for getting Josh to take what the defense gives him, look for quick strikes, etc. But at the same time, this narrative that he needs to be tamed some is IMHO wrong. He just isn't looking to make the big plays with his legs as much now or make those tougher throws as much. There have now been many times this year, including games we lost, there were moments it looked like he could have run and made the big play with his legs but pulled up and tried to throw it instead or waited so long to try and throw it that the run opportunity closed and he got just a few yards instead. Not only is it affecting him making plays with his legs, but the hesitation from Josh trying to hold his instincts back seems to also keep him from seeing other opportunities now he normally would take. Before, when Josh was buying time I feel like everything was an option. Now, when he gets away from pressure it feels like he is locking on to an area where the safest throw should be and doesn't see guys wide open in other areas of the field he would normally fire a ball too in those moments. Coming into 2023, Mahomes only had 4 less INTs and Burrow only had 3 less INTs over the past 2 seasons. And Mahomes has had more weapons in that time and a much better OL while Burrow has had substantially better weapons...not to mention Josh played half a season with a hurt throwing elbow and plays in worse weather. But he doesn't really have that many more INTs than those guys despite the personnel advantages they have over Josh. So this need to try and tame Josh needs to go away IMHO, let him ball like his instincts know because we win A LOT more games than we lose because of it. And its that Josh that this team needs, especially with the issues we already have with Dorsey. Just my 2 cents...

Dont get me wrong, I was often frustrated and irritated with Daboll for all the reasons you stated. I just hate Dorsey more.

Bernard is showing he is a player. Milano lite is a good description of him. Williams has done well so far considering, and I really am starting to get excited about his future. He obviously isn't there yet, but for a rookie thrown in like this, in this small window he has impressed me enough to be optimistic about his development. All that being said...it was still just the Giants who haven't scored an offensive TD in many moons lol

Thats fair...and to be clear, I am not saying its only reason, but it was probably the biggest reason as guys need to get field time to really start putting it together. I mean his rookie year he had no camp, it was COVID and it was a weird year and took some time to get him ready to see the field. But we had quality veterans ahead of him too. Then the next year they draft Groot and Boogie in first and 2nd round to go with Hughes and guys here. Then the next year we gave Von Miller a 30 year contract for a gazillion dollars to play opposite Groot. But he still had 6.5 sacks despite being in a rotation and playing for a DC allergic to generating sacks. Granted, you are not wrong either...he needed time to develop, and I am sure Von being here has helped. But I just think him being buried here limited his reps and opportunities to really put it together on the field, and he started making the most of them last year and even more so this year.

Same for me...Didn't like gambling Allen and Diggs prime on a rookie OC from the start. And all Dorsey has done is show why those concerns by many of us were valid, he looks in over his head. I will admit I miss Daboll in comparison to Dorsey...but Daboll showed last night what I hated so much about him too though and that he was allergic to running the ball. How does he not put the ball in his best players hands in Saquon on the 1 yard line with 1 play to win or lose the game? Bills defense is gashed in the middle with no Milano or Jones, plus we have been giving up one of the worst YPC in the NFL to RB's as it is the weakest part of our defense where our pass defense is one of the best. That was what I didn't like about Daboll...too cute in those moments...tries trickery rather than just line up and smash it. Not to mention, he has Tyrod, why not playaction and roll him out where he could also maybe run it in if there isn't a pass open. I hate the play call on the last play of the game by Daboll, not to mention on the key 3rd and 4th downs on the drive before where he turned it over on downs, he is throwing 30 yards down field instead of trying to get some of the yards at least on 3rd and then making 4th more manageable. But again, low percentage throws on both downs that were long passes down field on a top flight pass defense. But...in comparison to Dorsey...I will give you that I miss Daboll.

Honestly, AJE is showing potential that he could be the bookend with Groot. His biggest issue prior to this was never getting the field time to show if he could take the next step as he has been buried since getting here. He has always flashed the potential, and now he is making the most of his opportunities. Between getting the reps, learning from Von, McD as the DC, this kid is starting show why we drafted him. I wouldn't blame Beane if he started extension talks now because he won't be cheap if he keeps playing like this rest of season. The risk is the sample size of this production is small, but the flip side is not being able to afford him too. Tough decision for the FO on how they approach AJE. I said all offseason that AJE was better than people thought and would start on plenty of other teams. Now he is proving it on the field. I am hoping we find a way to keep him at a deal that isn't crazy. Each impact game though that price tag is going up.

Truth: AJE > Von Miller Maybe it wont be by playoff time, but AJE needs to keep being a big part of the rotation, I really hope he doesn't lose a lot of snaps to Von who takes like a 30 yard path to the QB it feels like at times. Love Von, but he ain't that guy right now but AJE has been. The way AJE is playing you gotta keep giving him the reps he is earning and not just take him out for the preseason presumed starter Von, at least until Von shows he can be as good or better than AJE out there.

The offense wasn't good enough last year. So who cares if SOME stats match last years. We DONT want to be the same struggling offense as last year where things are always hard. What is the point of trying to prove this inconsistent and sometimes anemic offense is the same as last years inconsistent and sometimes anemic offense? Who cares if Dorsey is as dumb in the redzone this year running out of shotgun on the 3 inch line on the goal line as he was with those dumb decisions as last year. People talk about last year like we won the Super Bowl. We got smashed at home in the playoffs after squeaking by Miami who started a backup QB. But people want to say "Hey look, we are the same as last year" to feel better about the terrible job Dorsey is AGAIN doing? No disrespect...But I do not understand this mentality at all.

I’ve been saying Dorsey was an issue all last year, off-season and this season. I gave him his credit for the fame plan against Miami, but that D sucks in Mia and it was one game. He’s been awful most the rest of the season. At this point, I don’t think he can figure it out and needs to go.

If we had lost another DT on top of Jones, sure. But right now, as someone already said as well, I don't think he is an upgrade to the guys we currently have. Not a knock so much on Harry, more so the fact we had good depth at DT as it was. If we were to lose another DT, then I would think he could be a viable trade target. But honestly, I think McD and Beane have confidence in the guys here and will wait and see how they fill in before they seriously consider pursuing a trade at any position.

Well when you are running 12 personnel as much as we are and then not using your TE's as weapons then its a problem. If we are running our TE's for 7 ypc, any JAG off the street TE can manage that. We have a ton of money in Knox and traded up for Kincaid to produce what any TE off the street could do. Thats a problem. When you are taking guys like Sherfield and Harty off the field to put 2 TE's out there and then just dumping off passes to them that you could do with any RB or TE, that is a problem. We drafted...traded up mind you...Kincaid to pair with Knox to create mismatches all over the field and to take adantage of those and put pressure on the D at all 3 levels. We aren't doing that. Dorsey NEEDS to find a way to use the 12 personnel productively or he needs to stop running it. Its that simple for me. And I am not confident he will...he sucked at incorporating Knox in last year despite our desperate need for another weapon for Josh and Knox coming off a season with 9 TD's despite modest targets for a TE. Now we are seeing the same lack of use of the TE's effectively this year. Its a problem and it starts with Dorsey.

Would I take Clark here at that price...of course...will it happen, I am skeptical given EDGE isn't really a position I think Beane or McD feels we need upgrades on. Groot, Floyd, and AJE have been stellar...Von just got back and should get stronger as the season goes on, and then we still got valued depth behind them. But at that price, I wouldn't rule it out depending on what the draft pick compensation would be. I mean that contract is now easy for us to bring in, so given the weakness created by injuries on the D, maybe they they will see him as insurance to make sure the pass rush is top notch which can also help mask other deficiencies in the secondary if we are consistently disrupting the QB up front rushing 4. So having more bodies to have fresh rushers rotating in all game is something they like to do, so I also won't rule this out.

Cant say a guy is misused when he couldn't stay on the field and wasn't capable of overtaking Singletary who outplayed him while they were both here. Devin had him beat in every metric, including broken tackles, yards after contact, yards per carry, etc etc. Moss didn't suck here, but he also didn't do anything to take the job from Devin. Now Moss is on a run first team with a much better OL. So yeah, lots of RB's will look better there than they would have looked in Buffalo during Moss's time here. But Moss wasn't the best RB on the roster during his tenure in Buffalo and that is why he didn't play a lot. Doesn't mean he wasn't a good RB, he just did not take the job from Devin and every time there might have been an opportunity to cut into Devins snaps he got hurt and set back again.

Sherfield is just fine, we aren't using him, heck we arent using Knox or Kincaid much either. The bottom line, unless we trade Gabe Davis in the trade to get a WR, that WR won't see any targets here to warrant the trade. Dorsey has not been good at all with incorporating the talent into the offense last year or this year. We are supposed to already have our stud weapons for Allen in Kincaid...but Dorsey doesn't use him or the other TE in Knox we paid a bunch of money to extend. Kincaid is averaging 6.9 yards per catch...any TE off the street can do that, you don't trade up in the first round to get a an athletic TE who can't block just to go out and throw short passes to. You go get a guy like that to exploit the seems, mismatches, and put pressure at all levels of the field on the defense to open up the whole offense. All I heard all offseason was "12 personnel"...well who cares about 12 personnel if you aren't throwing to your TE's. Knox is a very good TE...we didn't use him properly last year and now we have 2 TE's we don't use enough. So for me, unless Gabe Davis gets traded, any WR we bring in will have a very hard time getting any relevant targets and will be a waste of draft assets.

I woudnt count Hardman cuz he sucks and would be 5th on WR depth chart at best and honestly had he been here in camp may not have even made this roster.

No offense...but you're being a bit dramatic about this

Still disagree...its shows how much those details matter to Stefon, shows what kind of level he holds himself accountable for. This was a great answer by Allen IMHO

Fair enough, TBH I thought his stats were worse than that. But, Davis knows the offense and Allen knows Davis. Not sure adding Jeudy in midseason over Davis makes the offense better. Wilson is having a pretty good year actually and Jeudy is invisible in that offense.