Alphadawg7

This is when you make a move like a major trade. This team is on the doorstep with its most important pieces all returning and it has continuity within the staff. Go get Garrett, use 2 firsts if you have to. Then if you see another player available where we can add a high quality player at Outside WR, CB, or S that could be had in a trade using one of our 2nds and maybe another pick if need be, pull the trigger. We got a lot of draft capital this year, and the least amount of holes to fill in a long time. Use some to go get the talent for a team that is absolutely ready to win NOW and do it before the other teams in our division get better as well.

No disrespect bud, but I think you are way undervaluing a player like Garrett and also undervaluing how good the Bills 2024 offense was...it was historically great. First, no one said Garrett automatically makes us a super bowl winner. Second, a 14 sack guy is a pretty damn good player. What you arent seeing is all the other non sack plays where he blows up the pocket and forces a bad throw/turnover, or a throw away, stops a run for a loss, tackles the QB for a short gain that isn't scored a sack, knocks a pass down, and more importantly draws double and triple coverage helping the rest of your D be more effective. Your minimization of the 14 sacks tells me you may just not understand the impact a difference maker on the edge can be and how it affects the whole defense. Don't take my word for it, just look at what GM's pay these guys. And the reality is, if you take Chris Jones off the Chiefs, there is no way they are reigning back to back SB Champs, and they certainly don't reach the SB 3 straight seasons. And you said we must ":improve the offensive firepower" over essentially the deficiencies we have on defense. Do you even realize the Bills 2024 offense was the 16th highest scoring offense in NFL history...and that is while factoring in taking off whole quarters in several games, even most of whole halves and skipping the final game of the season. They set a number of offensive NFL records as a team, including most wins by 20+ points in NFL history and numerous individual offensive records. Dont get me wrong, we need to add another outside WR who can put pressure downfiled as well, but you act like this offense was inept the way you and some others descirbe it. It was literally and factually historically great to go along with the fact that we are also the highest scoring team in the NFL over the past 5 seasons too. So really what you are saying, the only way the Bills can do any better is to have one of the top 10, or top 5, or even the #1 offense in history to win a SB. Funny thing about that...only 3 of the top 10 offenses in history even won a SB (5th, 8th, and 10th ranked offenses) and the other 7 won nothing including the top 4 offenses won had 2 SB losers and 2 teams that didn't make the SB...the 2 teams that didn't reach were the 2018 Mahomes led Chiefs, his highest powered offense of his career and the 2024 Lions where they were devastated by defensive injuries during the season. This idea that even more offense automatically gets us there is neither historically or currently accurate. Meanwhile, the Chiefs with a mediocre offensive core around Mahomes at best the past 3 seasons are in their 3rd straight Super Bowl with a chance to be the first team in history to three peat. The dynasty before them was the Pats who also won 6 Super Bowls with mediocre offensive cast (and some years worse than that) around Brady and lost 3 Super Bowls when the Pats where a high powered passing attack including losing to Nick Foles when Brady threw over 500 yards in the Super Bowl. We all love offense, but if you cant get off the field on defense, then you put the pressure on the offense to be perfect in the postseason against opponents who are all winning teams above .500. And that includes needing the refs to be perfect too. And we lost to KC because the refs f-ed us twice on the same set of downs stealing 2 first downs from us which then our defense allowed KC to score a TD and 2 pt conversion. But we still had a chance to over come the refs screw job...but Allen misread the coverage, shifted protection to the wrong side, threw a hero ball under duress and a TE with hurt knees failed to come down with the catch on the adjustment. Allen wasn't perfect. Kincaid wasn't perfect. Season over. But what happens if we get a 3rd down stop instead of surrendering an 8 point drive on that series? Or just one stop on one of their other scoring series? We still only lost by 3...one stop would have been the difference in the game the last 3 losses to KC in the playoffs. Just one. If you want to keep leaving it in the hands of the offense needing to be perfect in every postseason well then good luck, its a much tougher way to win. PS: The Number 1 QB and #1 WR in the NFL this season were on the same team...they also had Tee Higgins too...they didn't make the playoffs. But the Steelers in the same division did with a weak passing attack led by the combo of washed Russel Wilson and bust Justin Fields. Offense isn't everything.

Yeah, I think what a lot of people keep missing here is the Browns are not going to be interested in players. They are not looking at 2025 as a season to compete, this is a season to tank, take their lumps on the cap, and reset with as much ammo as they can get to start over moving forward. I can't see Garrett getting moved for players unless someone there really likes someone like Elam for some reason given his age and rookie deal, and I don't think that is very likely. Its much more likely that Garrett brings back only picks, and they may even throw in a pick like you suggested to entice the trade partner to take on a player so they can get rid of more salary. To be honest, this trade scenario above makes a ton of sense from the Browns perspective...now will Beane be willing to take back more salary in the deal I don't know, but from the Browns side this would be one they would make IMHO if the Bills were willing to pull the trigger.

Im all for getting Garrett, I am all for sending 2 firsts to do so...just felt the proposal you put up was a bit over exaggerative which was basing your reasoning on is you think the Bills will draft better with later picks so you want to give away all our better earlier picks to get more later picks.

That is a fair question, and I would say probably not individual to individual, but based on where Kupp is at this point in his career and where Shakir is, I would say Shakir is at least pretty close and wouldn't surprise me if Shakir proves to be better than Kupp this year just based on Kupps age and injury history. But, collectively as a group, this unit can do most of everything Kupp would bring to the table at a high level an they showed that this year as I mentioned before, the 2024 Bills offense was historically good, set numerous records both as a team and individuals. So for me the question becomes would adding more redundancy to what they do well really take that and elevate that next year even if that individual does it a little better than our guys here? I mean we are asking the 16th greatest offense in NFL history to be better next year. A team that set numerous team and individual offensive NFL records this season. For me, the only way that feels realistic to be better next year is to bring someone in that excels at where this group is less effective at, which is obviously more of an outside deep threat. I am not sure what their intent is with Cooper, I personally wouldn't resign him unless its a very team friendly deal. There is just this edge or gear I feel like is missing with him, that "dawg" that needs to come out in big moments, not to mention his age just ups injury risk. Now I won't be pissed if we resign Cooper, and if we do then I still think they need to draft a rookie then that is a take the top off kind of player because Cooper isn't really that kind of player even though his a legit outside WR.

Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with you about the bolded above. You are absolutely right that they have been out coaching our staff, and maybe the only team really in the NFL that always has the right plan against us. But if you are going to overcome that with this regime still here, you better add more talent to where the talent can still break through on just one or two more plays a game. Giving the Chiefs a double advantage of both having the better coaching and getting to face lesser talented personnel is a recipe for repetitive failure. And look, its not like we are not close here, in fact, the reality is the refs 100% without question stole a SB birth away from the Bills. I don't know we win the SB, Eagles are legit with Saquan and a revamped defense, but we 100% had our chance taken away by the worst 2 spots in NFL history within 2 plays of each other taking away 2 first downs that flipped the game from driving to go up 2 scores or 4 to going down 7. That was at minimum an 11 point swing in the 4th, possible a 16 point swing had we scored a TD on that drive. So we don't need our defense to suddenly be the 85 Bears, we just need one player who can overcome scheme, the opponents, etc and just make one or two more plays. And its very rare we can add someone of the magnitude of Garrett...while also being able to afford doing it...to a team that is this close. And to be clear, I am still absolutely advocating to go upgrade at WR too as I don't think Cooper is the answer. But there is no reason to pass up on a Garrett if we can get him, and certainly not for adding another weapon to what was already the 16th greatest offense in NFL history and best Bills offense in Bills history.

No that is an incorrect "translation". The new team inherits the same contract, meaning they would pay the Bonus and his cap hit is still under $5M. So no, the Browns don't need to pay the bonus, they could and potentially up his trade value, but they don't have to. You didn't read the whole article. I mean it says exactly what a team inherits trading for him contract wise if they make the trade for him before the bonus is paid: "The new team would take on the exact same contract, with $1.255 million is base salary and nearly $18.5 million is paid out in a roster bonus in March. That would make his cap hit less than $5 million for the 2025 season on the new team. In 2026, it’s set up nearly identically with $1.3 million in base salary and $19 million in roster bonus which would spread out over five years. His cap hit would slightly more than double from $5 million-ish to $11 million-ish thanks to the 2025 proration added onto the 2026 number."

Yet the only reason we had a chance to win the game in regulation on the final drive was because of a monster sack to force the FG by Jordan instead of surrendering another TD to go down 7 instead of 3. No one can tell me that Myles Garrett cant impact one or two other plays turns a scoring drive into a punt...or a TD into a FG. And sure, at times Mahomes was getting the ball out quickly, but there were a number of chances to get him where he stood back there forever for easy completions or easy runs for first down. And you don't even have to get to him, you just need him to affect him more to where maybe he throws the ball away, throws an incompletion, makes a poor decision and turns the ball over, etc. I mean the only teams in forever to beat KC in the postseason (Bucs and Bengals) did so getting to Mahomes and disrupting him. We absolutely need a difference maker on defense. And think about it this way...The other team has good players to stop our offense too. We can't go into the playoffs absolutely needing our offense to be near perfect every game and every big moment. Chiefs aren't, yet they are playing for their 3rd straight Super Bowl...and why, because Chris Jones closed out games for them, including in Buffalo last year and then again in the Super Bowl to seal the win. Teams need guys on D who can make plays in big moments, help close out games, help the offense take and hold leads. We still also need to add to WR, but if we don't do something to improve our Defense, its going to remain that much harder to get by not only the Chiefs, but teams like the Ravens and the tough AFC in general.

Sorry bud, but that is not talking about the cap hit to the new team, that is total money paid, but his cap hit to the team is less than $5M for 2025. To make things easier, here is an article that gives all the details so I don't have to type it all out. https://www.sbnation.com/2025/2/3/24357841/what-myles-garretts-contract-means-for-his-trade-demand

This was my entire point, he just adds more of what we already have and doesn't provide what we lack. Now factor in Shakir, Samuel, and Keon are all 100% back. Hollins is probably back, and Cooper is the wildcard. Obviously Cooper isn't back if they traded for Kupp...and now with Kupp we have an even bigger deficit on the outside than we did this year. Kupp just is not the right fit for what the offense lacks, so he shouldn't be on our radar at all IMHO. And I like Kupp a lot and still think he can be good for someone this year, but we need a legit threat on the outside to elevate the composition of this WR group.

Actually Myles and DK are quite gettable...do I think it would happen...probably not. But its what I would also love to see happen and its not as unrealistic as you think. Reality is Garret more than likely gets traded for a first and either a 2nd or 3rd. But, given the Bills pick late, lets assume it has to be 2 first round picks. I would pull that trigger in a heart beat because Garrett also only counts $5M against the cap this year, making him affordable to acquire and allowing us to still be aggressive in FA or trade for a WR (or another position) if we wanted to. Now, WR's almost always get traded for a lot less than people think. If Seattle was to move DK, its possible a 2nd could get the job done or a 2nd and some change like a 4th, 5th, or 6th. Bills have two 2nd's this year and extra picks in rounds 4, 5, and 6 right now. So lets say it cost us a 2nd and a 4th...we would still have picks in rounds 2 and 4 even after both trades. Its not nearly as crazy as it seems...will Beane do it, probably not...but when you are on the doorstep to a Championship, this IS the time to make this kind of all in play.

Yeah, I agree with all this.

I am a big Kupp fan having lived in LA for all his career. Always liked his game. But...I will tell you the downside...everything is about fit. Does he bring the elements this group needs right now at this stage of his career? The answer is no, because he is redundancy on this roster with both Shakir and Samuel here. This roster needs a down field outside threat, we have tons of options over the middle in the short to mid range attack that Kupp eats at right now. Would I be upset if we get Kupp...of course not. But do I think he changes much for this offense this next season...probably not a whole lot. This offense was the 16th best offense in NFL history and greatest in Bills history. If anyone really expects to improve upon that, then we need to add someone that adds a dimension this offense is missing, and Kupp doesn't bring much of that at this stage of his career. I think he can still be a very good player for someone, but I don't think he changes a whole lot for the Bills offense based on the makeup of our roster right now.

What does that have to do with anything? You holding the fact we can also run the ball in for a score, especially in short yardage against the Bills for some reason? Points are points, we score plenty.

Still a gross over pay, even with the trade back part of the equation.

With atrocious QB's

While he is a boundary WR, he was still just our 4th WR this year. And the Bills offense just put up the 16th best offense in the history of the NFL and best in Bills history. Our offense isn't the travesty some people make it sound like when expressing WR concerns. But don't get me wrong, we absolutely need to address WR this offseason...but I do very much hope, and expect, that Hollins will be back because he was a good player for the Bills this year.

I have always said Lee Evans played for the wrong Bills era, he would be insane with Allen

You are joking right?

It was a joke based on all the other things described about the player

speculation is what I gather based on new regime, full rebuild necessary. I haven't heard anything definitive on Crosby. I would love either of these guys

So you are saying we need Diggs (just a joke)

Ah, I thought it would have been the inverse personally as CB's seem to get over paid in FA more than Safety's in general. If that was the case, then yes, give me Reed over Holland as well. I agree with you on the secondary and would love to see us go from Douglas to Reed

We can get Garrett and still sign DJ Reed, which I would love if we landed Reed. Personally, I think Holland makes more sense as he will cost less IMO and still addresses our secondary, but would also love landing Reed. Garretts cap hit is only $5M this year according to the articles I read, so it would allow us to be active in FA to some degree still as well.

Totally agree...so many people around here always think some massive haul is coming in a trade then never happens. Nobody is giving up what a lot of people here think it will take to get him. A first and change is likely going to get the deal done. 1st and 3rd may be enough. However, as a team as close to a SB as the Buffalo Bills, I wouldn't mess around personally. With how late we pick, I would be fine sending our first this year and next year to insure we get a real difference maker. I would feel better about that then trusting we will draft a real difference maker at any position with those picks. Especially given Garetts cap hit this season is just $5M. If Beane can get him cheaper, then even better, but I wouldn't risk getting out bid, especially by another contender because at that cap hit there will be a lot of teams who can afford him. With such a low cap hit, Bills could still be active in FA or even remain active in the trade market. If we could land Garrett at just $5M this year and then go make a play in FA or the trade market to get a WR like Higgins or Metcalf...we would be instant SB favorites next season. Then address S and CB in FA and Draft and this team would be very scary next season. When you are this close, especially as a team whose never gotten the job done, you start thinking about more short term all in moves. Chiefs and Ravens aren't going anywhere and the AFC overall is going to be tough for a while. Shoot your shot now Beane...guys like Garret are rare, go do for the defense what you did for the offense when you went and got Diggs at a time the offense sorely needed that kind of infusion.