MaineMoxie

But, if that was their plan all along, why draft Spiller this year with Lynch and Jackson on the team? If there wasn't an offensive tackle or QB or defensive lineman or something available at the number 9 spot, why not trade down (or even - gasp! - up) to get someone that can meet an immediate need? I mean, why not start rebuilding right away?

Thanks for the props. WNYers are a good bunch. While I don't miss the politics (having moved away over a decade ago for work), I do miss the people (though I get back a couple of times a year since most of my family is still there). I have the misfortune of living a little too close to eastern Massachusetts and we all know what those folks can be like...

I'm sorry, but it's really the ownership and senior management that sucks. This is getting really, really old.

Yeah, it's getting ridiculous. I'm sure there are some here who will vilify me for saying so, but it all starts at the top with the owner. The Bills have been around for 51 years, have had 16 head coaches, and only two of them have won their first game. Edit: And apparently only three four of them have had a winning record (Saban, Levy, Knox, and Phillips).

And, it's official. Marv Levy and Lou Saban remain the only Bills head coaches to have won their first game with the Bills...

I live in New England and can say the typical Pats* fan is not quite like you described. They tend to be more like your description of Phins fans. They're truly insufferable sometimes - and some of them are close friends of mine! They have thin skin and short memories. Whether or not they have a football IQ is hard to tell since every time they open their mouths it's something to do with the Pats* so one wonders if they are watching the game for the game or for some kind of Patriotic man love. God I hate the Pats. I used to hate the Phins 20 years ago, but from living in New England for ten years I have come to truly hate the Pats* and their obnoxious fans.

Yeah, no kidding. Shiancoe looked ok the other night, but Harvin's got head issues and with Rice out, Favre has no one to throw to (which ticks me off since he's my QB in fantasy this year).

I was in the corner of the northwest (?) endzone, about halfway up, for both that game and the game against Miami the week before (which was in a snowstorm). I just remember the disbelief that they were actually going to the Super Bowl. It was a surreal experience and one I'll never forget.

Actually, I thought his delivery improved dramatically this summer. If you watch old highlights (even from his impressive stretch at the start of the '08 season) and then watch highlights from this preseason, something about his throwing motion looks different - it's like it's crisper and there seems to be more wrist action.

Nice.

Yeah, some of those Bucs teams from the '70s were pretty bad. Man, I hate people like that. But I do think the incompetence of the management is what brought this about. The new media sees the Bills as dysfunctional and they equate dysfunctional with bad (which isn't always the case).

People actually pay for porn?

Jack Kemp, Daryl Lamonica, ... didn't we have this conversation already?

As a UB grad, I really wanted to see him make it - even though I'm also a CHS grad and had a hard time rooting for a St. Joe's guy. I thought he played well, but they are pretty deep at WR. The only hope is that he makes it as a special teamer or else the practice squad. Anybody know if Starks survived in Green Bay?

!$%^$@. Housh is on my fantasy team. Actually, I can clap with one hand.

No. It's because the Bills have won at least 7 games six out of the last ten years. They did it three of the last four years with what amounts to the same cast of characters. They nearly beat the Pats* on opening day last year, they nearly beat the 'boys on MNF a couple of years ago, and were 4-1 two years ago until Trent got whacked (and, at the time, Peter King had TE as his first-quarter MVP). Will they win ten games this year? Probably not. But with what is clearly a better head coach I fail to see how the same group of guys could do much worse. Incidentally, a die-hard Pats* fan who is a friend of mine agrees with me on this.

Yep. When I was in high school (late '80s, early '90s) the school (Canisius) got Sully to come help judge some basketball contest (might have been a slam dunk contest or something - can't remember). It was just a fun sort of thing and the judges were all giving 8s, 9s, and 10s - except Sully who was giving 3s and 4s. He got booed.

Yeah, because Green's been awful. Everyone else has been ok, but Green has really been atrocious.

Bingo. Which is why I think Stafford gets the benefit of the doubt. I really don't understand what people see in Sanchez. Yeah, but very few people build a team around an LT, DE, LB, or CB. The QB is arguably the most important position in football, certainly the most important on offense since roughly half of the offense relies on the ability of that one guy.

Read this article. Roughly 10 of the 35 first-round QBs taken between 1990 and 2006 have been successful in the NFL. Based on that list, I estimate 7 of those 10 were/are "franchise" QBs: McNair, Manning (arguably both), Palmer, Rivers, Roethlisberger, and Rodgers. I would say the jury is still out on those taken since 2006 - Ryan and Flacco have been solid so far, Stafford seems OK, but Sanchez was seriously overrated last year. Moreover, in the last decade, despite 26 first-round QBs having been taken in that period, there have been a total of 12 pro-bowl berths for that group and none has been first-team (note this does not include Peyton Manning and Steve McNair who were drafted in the '90s). You might argue that Palmer, in his prime, deserved a first-team pro bowl berth and Rodgers might get one eventually (maybe Rivers). But if you simply want a serviceable QB in the first round (don't know why you'd waste a first-round pick on a serviceable QB, but...) there were a few others - but there also were a large number of busts.

As I've said before in other threads, we now live in an age when not only do the number of fans in the seats not matter as much, but even winning doesn't seem to matter as much anymore. It's all about a marketable product. Sadly, not only do I see the Bills falling into this pattern, but the Sabres - who have been lucky in the winning department - are the same way. There's absolutely no effort to try to compete. Either it's a deliberately cynical ploy to maximize profits or it is simply giving up and admitting defeat to the wealthier teams.

+1

Yep. Sadly it no longer is about ticket sales. It's now about the marketable product which includes luxury boxes, flashy stadiums (e.g. Dallas and their $100 pizzas), etc. Back when the Bills were in their Super Bowl years it was a big deal to talk about the fact that they led the league in attendance for years because attendance was a relevant stat. No one talks about it now with the exception of Jacksonville and most new stadiums are actually much smaller than what they replaced, at least in terms of capacity, since they're replacing seats with luxury boxes. I mean, most big D-I colleges have larger stadiums these days. The NFL has come to expect sell-outs for every team at every game. I remember the time when TV blackouts were common (e.g. the greatest comeback in NFL history which was a playoff game).

Because he knows he's got us by the cajones. If we stop supporting the team, it gives him (or the next owner) an excuse to move the team. I mean, it's almost like the past ten years have been Ralph's deliberate attempt to drive away the fans so he could move the team when the stadium lease was up, but we're too damn stubborn and won't go away.

+1