San Jose Bills Fan

^^^^^^^ I mentioned you because in a few of your posts you mentioned that Hernandez didn't have a criminal record. Sorry if I wasn't accurate in re-stating your ideas. To your most recent post, I consider violent acts to be a much bigger deal than other transgressions. In both cases can the player cost the team in terms of being suspension risks, arrest risks, etc. But generally speaking the player who commits violent acts has the ability to do much more damage on many levels than the player who breaks the law in non-violent ways. I believe that many NFL teams view violent acts quite differently than they do non-violent acts.

Good points and yes, the level of background security is not even across the board nor obviously is how teams interpret the information they receive. Ironically Mike Brown of the Bengals (also Bill Polian FWIW) publicly stated that the Bengals did not consider Hernandez to be draftable. A team which has harbored a large number of misfits didn't consider Hernandez to be draftable…

You asked Doc if Hernandez had failed a "drug policy." So you were the one who brought it up, as if you felt like failing a drug screen was equivalent to committing violent acts.

Seriously though. And again you're wrong. All of my posts (before your statement accusing me of "getting a bit of a free ride here") were qualified and prefaced by phrases such as "I'm gonna guess," "it certainly begs the question," "it means to me (personally),"with no proof," "I believe," "I'm highly skeptical," and "again without knowing." In other words I was stating my opinions. The fact that I have a strong conviction about my opinions doesn't change that, nor does your false accusation that I want others to believe anything but what they want to believe. Meanwhile you "want others to believe" that the Patriots knew nothing.

It's even harder to believe that I had to ask that. But sometimes one has to play to the level of their competition.

First of all, you have not directly answered any of my questions but then again I'm not surprised. As to the bolded above, (sigh) you base your entire argument on speculation that you simply want to be true. As I already pointed out very recently, neither of us know how much the Patriots knew. But according to you, I'm the one speculating. :lol:

See again. Like Marauder'sMicro your trying to equate a lack of criminal charges with having a clean track record. You don't truly believe they're the same thing… DO YOU?

You move quite quickly for a straw man. In answer to your latest diversion, take your pick: Any of the predraft stuff, the stuff in Hermosa Beach, the secret flophouse… I didn't realize that you needed everything spelled out for you but I guess after you missed out on the red highlights, I should have known. Now how about you answer my questions: Why would you expect me to object to the contract extension at the time it was given when I don't work for the NFL or an NFL club's security department? Why would you equate my missing out on AH's character flaws with New England missing them? Do you deny that there is a broad range between being a murderer and not being a murderer? Would you say that drafting a violent person would be essentially the same as drafting a marijuana smoker? Please, answer even just two of the questions. Anything...

You know WEO, I know you're an intelligent person so your inability to grasp conversations is troubling when you consider the possible explanations for your incomprehension. Are you not comprehending that there is a vast range between being a murderer and not being a murderer? Does the fact that Hernandez was very violent twice before he was drafted mean nothing to you? Do you equate shooting a gun with a failed drug test for marijuana? As to the bolded above, I don't spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on screening, security, and background checks for prospective NFL players. Why would you possibly make the argument that I should have known better about Hernandez when I'm not an NFL security person? I look forward to your answer.

If you can't do justice to the discussion, you shouldn't participate. I and others have already said that there was no way that anyone could predict that Hernandez would become a murderer. Re-read the thread.

In Tarantino movies, yes.

Besides the ones I believe they knew about, I wonder if they knew about the gun brandishing picture in 2009 and his secret apartment near his primary house.

You apparently didn't read the timeline very carefully. The only incidents I said the Patriots could possibly know about were in red. At least 12 teams blacklisted the guy. Why do you think that is? Are you saying that just because charges were not brought that no team knew about the pre-draft incidents in Gainesville? The only other item I highlighted in red was the incidents in Hermosa Beach. This happened before his contract extension. Are you saying that it's unbelievable that the Patriots knew about these incidents? Are you saying that just because charges aren't brought that teams are unaware of these incidents? It certainly seems you are saying this, which is crazy.

Happy 4th CGF!

I could ask you that exact same question. I posted the timeline upthread. None of us know. Not you or I. The only thing we can do is make reasonable guesses. You could have simply said, "I don't know what they knew either but I disagree with your opinion." Exactly. The team has kept mum on the subject as they should. Any attempt at a PR spin would not be worth the possible downside of that spin. But IMO a lot of people here strangely forgiving of New England's decision to draft this guy and then extend him. As I said earlier, this is an organization that cheated for years. Why would we trust that they simply didn't know about all the red flags? It's more plausible to me that they decided to pretend that those flags didn't exist This is what it boils down to for me: Does Honey Badger have a violent past or do all of his transgressions amount to drug use and non-violent incidents? Because I don't equate drug use/shoplifting/larceny etc with punching a person and quite possibly shooting a person.

Great call. AVP had a great mind for quarterback, better than Fitz, IMO. But like Fitz his arm disqualified him from being anything other than a backup-quality quarterback. And to take this full circle, Matt Barkley is a guy who has everything. I believe that his arm will limit his success in the NFL. Many others don't agree. NFL teams obviously hedged by him lasting until the 4th round. Perhaps he'll prove his detractors wrong.

The Hernandez timeline reads like this… I've put the incidents which the NFL and its teams might have known about in red: April 28, 2007: Hernandez cold cocked a bouncer outside a bar after being kicked out for not paying for two drinks. Tim Tebow is “witness 1” on the police report after trying unsuccessfully to intervene. Hernandez does not deny throwing the punch which ruptured the bouncer’s ear drum. Police recommended assault charges against Hernandez. The bouncer was insistent that charges be brought against AH however later he “changed his mind” asking that the charges not be brought while mentioning in a supplemental report that he had been contacted by the school’s legal department as well as the coaching staff. Tebow was listed as an anonymous witness because he didn’t want to be associated with the incident although he tried to arrange for payment of the drinks. The bouncer was contacted for comment yesterday by USA Today and declined to comment. Officials at Florida deny that a settlement was reached in this case. http://www.usatoday....rfight/2483559/ September 30, 2007: After leaving a nightclub where they had an altercation with several Florida football players (Aaron Hernandez, current Bengal Reggie Nelson and current NFL O-linemen Mike and Maurkice Pouncey), two men are shot and wounded while in a car stopped at a traffic light leaving the nightclub. A third man in the car with the two victims, Randall Cason witnessed the shootings. Cason identified Reggie Nelson as accompanying the shooter and described the shooter as Hawaiian or Hispanic with a large, muscular build about 6-foot-3 or 6-4, weighing about 230 or 240 pounds and having a lot of tattoos. That same day Cason, who had originally said Nelson and the Hawaiian or Hispanic male were the suspects, "rescinded his identification of Aaron Hernandez and Reggie Nelson," according to the report. While Hernandez's name was redacted in the document, it was the first time the report indicated that Cason had positively identified Hernandez as the shooter at some point. http://espn.go.com/e...cording-sources 2009: Hernandez takes an iPhone/Mirror “selfie” picture of himself holding a .45 caliber Glock pistol, possibly the weapon used in the recent Lloyd homicide. In addition to these incidents there were reports linking Hernandez to gang affiliations and multiple failed drug tests April 2010: New England drafts Aaron Hernandez while approximately 12 teams are retrospectively reported to have blackballed him. June 2012 (approximately 2 months before New England agrees to a contract extension with Hernandez): While renting an apartment in Hermosa Beach, CA a neighbor called police to report fighting between Hernandez and his then-pregnant fiancée, Shayanna Jenkins inside their apartment. “We're told when police arrived, Jenkins said she was ok and didn't want to press charges so they left without making an arrest. Law enforcement sources also tell us ... cops came to the house several other times after neighbors made noise complaints. One source says Hernandez "acted like an a**hole" when cops responded.” http://www.tmz.com/2.../#ixzz2Y7m6OjAB July 15 2012: A double homicide occurs in Boston’s South End and is retroactively being linked to Hernandez because the getaway vehicle described in that case has rumored to have been found at Hernandez’ uncle’s house. It’s doubtful New England knew about any Hernandez involvement in this incident. There’s also a recent story of the “flophouse” apartment that Hernandez kept near his house. Did the football team know about this residence? If so what did they surmise the purpose of the apartment was? Does it matter? Late August 2012: Hernandez signs a contract extension with the Patriots. February 2013: A man is shot by Aaron Hernandez and left bleeding in an alley with head and arm injuries. The man, Alexander Bradley is described as "a friend of Aaron Hernandez and after a botched filing, successfully files a civil suit against Hernandez in late June, seeking monetary damages for his injuries while not cooperating with the criminal investigation. http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/patriots/2013/06/19/aaron-hernandez-lawsuit-shooting-strip-club-alexander-bradley/2438713/ May 18, 2013: Authorities have also linked Hernandez to a May 18 fight outside a bar in Providence, R.I., that involved a gun. A prosecutor with the Bristol County district attorney's office has said that a man who matched the description of a man seen on video with Hernandez on the night of Lloyd's slaying was seen putting a gun under a car during the Rhode Island incident. Authorities traced that gun to a Florida gun shop. Then following Lloyd's death, police said they recovered a .22 caliber gun about a quarter-mile from the defendant's home - a weapon authorities said was traced to the same store. http://sportsillustr.../#ixzz2Y7qf7261

:lol: Headline: "Bills fan board causes internet to crash"

Thanks bills44. Great point NoSaint about the Urban Meyer/Belichick friendship. It would be an interesting conversation to eavesdrop on.

Thanks Ganesh! Charlie Batch is the perfect comparison. TJax could be another Charlie Batch. And man, that's a lot of coin!

You know NoSaint, you and I are quite similar in that we're fairly forgiving of others in terms of benefit of the doubt and also we hold ourselves to a higher standard than we hold others. That said (with no proof), IMO the Cheatriots*** exercised reckless disregard for the truth about AH. I'm HIGHLY skeptical that they new nothing of these (how many incidents are we speaking of now? Seven, eight?) actions on his part and I believe that they hid their heads in the sand, hoping that the risk wouldn't blow up in their faces. I understand the NFL is a win-at-all-costs business but over one-third of the teams in the NFL said "no thanks" and "not at any cost" to AH even before he started becoming an even worse person. The Cheatriots*** re-signed this guy about 10 months ago which is after several of these incidents took place… some of them right in their own backyard. (Again without knowing) I reject the notion that the Cheatriots*** new nothing of AH's personal life. Remember, this is an organization that cheated for years. Why would anyone doubt that they were simply hoping the time bomb wouldn't explode before they won another Super Bowl?

You've pointed out a few times that Hernandez had no police record but both before he was drafted (when he was blackballed by over one-third of NFL teams) and before he was re-signed to an extension, there was plenty of evidence that this guy was a bad actor. I reject the notion stated or implied that what happened to the Cheatriots*** was simply bad luck. To me, the two decisions to employ Hernandez was an avoidable mistake. edit: This is a continued response to Marauder'sMicro.

I'm saying that although a team never knows how a player will act, the very act of having that player on their team means (to me) that the team has made the determination that this player will not be a risk to be a felon and bring dishonor to himself and the team. Thus the team has to bear the responsibility of having made a bad decision when that player acts as Hernandez has acted. They have to be accountable for the fact that they made a miscalculation on a person's character. So I disagree with the idea that just because a team can't predict the future that they can simply wash their hands of any personnel decision gone bad.

I thought you were a Ford guy. Speaking of which, I'm sure we'd at least be worthy enough to GM the Detroit Lions.

That's a big part of it. Another aspect is that many people these days do have something analogous to ADD and are "multi-tasking" more than ever before. They can't sit still and take in the environment because that's a waste of time. In those "dead" 30 seconds, they could be doing "something" like texting or checking scores, etc. A related part of that is the NFL initiative to have Wi-Fi in every stadium as a portal to additional camera angles, concierge services, etc. The world has changed so much in such a short time and there's a part of that which is really sad and not really an improvement. I can see a day where a significant first down is made by one of the teams and half the crowd is watching a different game on the Jumbotron while the other half has their heads buried in their smart phones and no one (relatively speaking) is really watching the game.