San Jose Bills Fan

Damn we're old…

That's the question. Moats actually has decent straight line speed and quickness but to play the kind of LB that Wanny wants, he'll need to improve his movement skills. He might be handicapped by having been a college DE and in any case, he might not be a good enough athlete to play LB in the NFL. We shall see.

Hey, how about that Bruce Irvin?

You have to admit, that's a huge accomplishment. Beck is one of the greatest guitarists of all time. I heard they sang "Hit the Road Jack" to Gaffney. If the Cheatriots*** personnel moves look confusing, there might be a good reason for that. But hey, not even one year ago Belicheat was being lauded for trading a 5th rounder for Albert Haynesworth who is still a free agent after the Cheatriots*** released him. Meanwhile, the Bills worked out Vince Young… for free.

It'll be interesting to see who he visits next.

Define "pretty good." On second thought, don't. I couldn't care less how Fitz looks… only how he plays. In my experience, some guys just never look athletic no matter what they do. I also know guys that look ripped all the time who never work out.

Numerous posters have addressed your points but you haven't really addressed theirs One assertion is that Trent is camp fodder. Another one (supported) is that Andy Reid told Young that he thinks he's a starter and should pursue opportunities to compete for a starting job. Another one is that Young lost his job to Kafka, not Edwards. Then there's the drafting of Nick Foles in the 3rd round. Do you really think Young was allowed to walk because of Trent Edwards? I've posted the same thing… why isn't anyone listening to us? What happened when Young was 8 years old during the Bills second Super Bowl season or for that matter, when he was 10 years old during the Bills fourth Super Bowl season? Just giving you a hard time. I would prefer that all NFL players are also students of NFL history but agree that it's probably a bit too much to hope for. I heard that Chris Kelsay rushed over to One Bills Drive to advise the team to suppress too much Vince Young coverage out of respect for Junior Seau's passing. I guess that's just the kinda guy Kelsay is. Cheap attempt at humor… sorry. In fairness to the truth (because if I could lie on your behalf, I would), in 2009 Young started the season as a backup and after Kerry Collins led the team to a 0-6 record, owner Bud Adams insisted that Jeff Fisher install Young as the starter. Fisher followed Adams' orders and installed Young as the starter for the remainder of the season. Vince Young led the team to an 8-2 finish. In 2009.

I'm rationalizing it from an external perspective… because I assume that even people with mental health issues have the occasional moments of lucidity. Why did Duerson and Seau shoot themselves in the chest? From an internal perspective, I'd be the first person to admit that I have no idea what goes through the mind of a retired star athlete suffering from mental health issues presumably aggravated by occupational hazards.

What part did Kelsay play in the acquisition of Williams? Is it possible you're pulling a Young/Vick mistake here? It's coming to a head for sure. I'm sure NFL Properties and all parties would like to capitalize on the Williams signing by selling lots of his jerseys. Certainly we all expected to be able to purchase one by now. I think that now that offseason workouts have begun and players are around the facility again that you'll see a decision soon. Thanks as usual Jay. Language is an art… a concept often lost on those who use it in their profession. Sacrilege! I've often characterized this enduring trait as Kelsay playing the part of the buffoon cop in the silent movies. Everyone sees what's going on except him. I think I remember a writer saying that "Kelsay has a high motor and a good transmission but his clutch is always slipping." LOL! I wouldn't use the term "leader" in this discussion. I would use the term "team-first guy." I could be wrong but there was a thread about this right when we signed Mario and I thought there were a few people who thought Kelsay would give Williams the number because he's a team-first guy." I thought that Kelsay might do this for reasons which seem reasonable to me.

Football players are warriors. One of our esteemed posters recently lumped football players with all other professional athletes. I was shocked by the failure to see a clear distinction between football players and for instance, baseball or basketball players. I agree with you and have posted similar thoughts before but I want to point out that the larger issue of brain trauma and its effects on behavior go beyond simple depression. Many former players (who are later diagnosed with CTE) display rage behavior. Uncontrollable violent thoughts and actions. I've seen where AJ's position on this issue has evolved somewhat during this thread. I just want to comment that one could see a scenario where the taking of one's own life is anything but selfish. The "selfish" characterization (a long and traditional criticism) of suicide is another one-size-fits-all rule in our world. I don't think it applies to all suicides. So we're only allowed to feel sorry for combat veterans? You ought to read more on the subject… understand how the NFL's Concussion Czar spent 12 years in his position downplaying the effects of head injuries while sending concussed players like Wayne Chrebet back into games as the Jets' Team Doctor. Not only is it the NFL's dishonest position on concussions but the culture of the league itself which encourages and pressures players to "man up" and ignore their own injuries while at the same time allowing the teams and league to wash their hands of liability by shifting the onus to the players. And again, this has been the case under Goodell but Goodell was the guy who got rid of the NFL's previous Concussion Czar and finally got the league to start being serious about head injuries. I've lurked at PPP and it's not a pretty sight/site. I'd be interested to see that too, Buftex, if you don't mind. I recently dismissed a debate with Jeremy on this subject (a bit rudely, sorry Jeremy) because I generally try to avoid debates… you don't often change other people's minds and it's ultimately an energy sink. More often people get set in their convictions and feelings get hurt. But the people who put this all on the players (assuming the known risks) are taking a very narrow view of this issue, IMO. Again there are many classes of players in the NFL mostly based on when they played… some knew nothing, some knew a bit more, some should have known more than they did but rationalized or hid their heads in the sand (pardon the pun) but only today's player can be accused of playing with a clear understanding of the risks involved. I think that class (today's player) is about the only one that can say this. The NFL was downplaying head injuries as recently as 2004…giving players reassuring messages from their medical experts. Seau (RIP) and his generational peers probably knew some of the risks but probably didn't understand the full consequences of those risks. edit: I didn't fully explain my objection to the "selfish" characterization of suicides. CTE sufferers commonly suffer from "rage behavior." They have violent thoughts and actions. I believe Barrett Robbins probably suffers from CTE. Justin Strelczyk was diagnosed, and many others who became violent and were a threat to themselves and others and committed violent acts were subsequently diagnosed with CTE. Getting back to "selfishness" how many times have you read in the paper that some guy "killed his entire family before turning the gun on himself?" A thousand times? How many times did you think to yourself, "why didn't he just kill himself?" If you had constant feelings of rage and knew that no amount of medical care could cure you, and were afraid you might kill a loved one or more, would it be a selfish act to kill yourself? If you knew that you would get a diagnosis of CTE and that your life insurance would pay your family millions of dollars if you killed yourself, would that be a selfish act? Isn't the fact that these people are shooting themselves in the chest so their brains can be studied and diagnosed in fact, NOT a selfish act? We live in a complex world. We should keep that in mind.

Apparently there are many Monmouths to feed.

Good one! Ralph is cheap. No way he's gonna approve 4 dinner meetings at Tempo in one offseason.

There's no way the Bills would trade up to take TJ Graham. The guy's a 6th rounder,

Inconceivable!

That's pretty funny. You made the right choice. I also remember hearing that Bud Adams wanted to draft Young and that Fisher was against it. It's not hard for me to imagine that it wasn't a good pairing for either man. Not sure what to make of Andy Reid's comments… tend to think they're a bit dishonest. I trust Chixley. It's not like Vince Young would be able to damage this organization. Even if he signs and things start to go south a bit, you just cut him and bring in a different player who's better than Thigpen. Anyways at this point, it's just a workout… and probably a chalk board session and constant evaluation by several people.

other knee.

Ah, Eugene Chung… "The Human Turnstile," former first round bust with the Cheatriots***. Quite the coincidence that the first two Asian-American NFL offensive linemen (Chung is Korean, Wang is Chinese) both went to… Virginia Tech.

Unless Buddy suddenly gets fired or steps down, he's still writing his legacy so I would quibble with your last sentence. I like your first point and I would add that before his first draft in 2010, Nix said you had to draft a cornerback or two every year because of the way the league is. And yet, he didn't draft a cornerback that year. Also the Bills were interested in OT's Russell Okung and Trent Williams that year (he said there were 2 tackles he liked in the first round) but both were gone by the time the Bills drafted. Nix had stated a desire to draft a tackle but he would not reach for one to fill a need (the Bryan Bulagas of the world). If you analyze the Bills drafts under Nix and who was available when we picked, the only successful offensive tackles they've let pass them were guys who've done better than was expected of them and/or who are not better players than Spiller or Dareus. The last thing I want to do is re-kindle the never-ending BPA vs Need Debate (it's like a bad rash that never really goes away) so suffice to say that some GMs give much greater weight to BPA (over need) than other GMs. It's not black and white… it's a shade of grey and Nix's grey is pretty black.

I'd like to crap all over the Coples pick but like their 2nd round receiver, this guy has huge upside. He's never played in a 3-4 before but he appears to be a nice specimen for a 5-technique end. I hope he's a bust though.

Wow. He hasn't played a game in the NFL and already you're virtually writing off his career in spite of the fact that a highly-respected personnel guy like Buddy Nix deems him worthy of a 3rd round pick. Seems to me that you're overstating your case.

Don't be dismissive of the possibility of Potter improving his accuracy over time like numerous other kickoff specialists have done. It might start with him attempting some 60 yarders and morph into him being our regular kicker. It could end with Potter someday being the field goal specialist and yielding kickoff duties to a younger guy with a stronger leg.

Bruce Irvin was taken before either of them. Three pass rushers, all of them completely different type of players.

Kellen Moore, Boise State: Great brain, popgun arm. In the right offense, could be a Chad Pennington/Ty Detmer type. Potential to be a coach on the field -- he's smart enough to do more with a clipboard than just hold it on the sidelines.

Cousins was taken in the 4th. Kevin Kolb was a 2nd, Brohm was a 2nd, Mallet a 3rd, Schaub was a 3rd, Rob Johnson was a 4th, so they're in the ballpark as far as Cousins is concerned. Matt Flynn and Matt Cassel were both 7th rounders which is not the same as spending a higher round pick on a developmental QB. I think that's a slightly different conversation. More to my original point, we're talking about Cousins in the context of RGIII who is also a young quarterback. Who are the young QBs who were developed alongside another young QB? We were NOT talking about developing a young guy alongside an established veteran. We were talking about the difficulties in developing and then showcasing a young quarterback for a future trade when the same team is trying to develop a different young quarterback.

Max… I just pointed out that this "strategy" doesn't always work. I stated good reasons why I thought it was a bad move by the Skins in this particular case. No one said it was a "new" strategy. No one said every pick has to be used for "need." The practice of drafting a developmental QB by the Skins with that pick is what's being debated, not the general idea of drafting a developmental QB. As I already said once, it's not a fail safe strategy, there are risks involved. Besides my Mallett example (the Cheatriots*** were shopping him before the draft after picking him 74th overall last year) how did it work out when the Packers selected Brian Brohm? It doesn't always work and this particular case looks like a bad move for all parties, IMO.