San Jose Bills Fan

I know all about Cam Newton's background as it was discussed ad infinitum on this site not very long ago. I still think Nawrocki's treatment of him was off base. If Nawrocki doesn't like the kid, then write an article to that effect. But to slander him in a scouting report is ridiculous, IMO.

Well there's the question of whether the same rules apply to college athletes that apply to politicians. Regardless of that, again I've never seen such a negative attack on an athlete in a scouting report. This is not the same thing as a story on a head coach cheating. We're talking about a scouting report on a kid… a football evaluation which bizarrely turned into a character assassination. I'd ask you to show me another scouting report which even approached being one-quarter as slanderous as this one but I know you wouldn't be able to find one.

It's a complex issue and then you have to view it from a legal standpoint as well as a moral/ethical standpoint. The legal part will ultimately take care of itself. Morally it's a grey area. You're a corrections officer… a pretty high risk job. I'm a construction worker which is not the safest job in the world. I know in my career that I've been exposed to gasses (especially after lunch), crystalline silica, asbestos, and microscopic fiberglass strands. I know there's a good chance that I'll have reduced lung function in my old age. I accept that knowingly. Concrete dust, sheet rock dust, insulation dust… I breathe these things every day. At the same time, I found out about these risks from my industry. I was educated to these hazards by my employers who had lawyers who informed them that they needed to make us aware of risks and measures to reduce those risks. I wear personal protective equipment supplied to me by my employer. The company does this to protect itself from litigation in the near term and in the far term. Whether they care about as as humans (doubtful) is irrelevant. It's too bad the NFL tried pretending for more than a decade that there wasn't a problem. Thank goodness Goodell has had the legal and maybe even the moral sense to bring the NFL out of the dark ages on this issue. Hopefully he's not too late.

I can't vouch for Vince Young because I don't know the guy, never met him, etc. However I can say two things on his character: 1) For every source/link that anyone provides that questions or criticizes his character, I'm pretty sure I can find one that say just the opposite. I doubt when he almost single-handedly defeated USC in the National Championship Game that people were questioning his character… least of all the guys in the huddle with him. 2) I would sure hope that my character for the rest of my life wouldn't be judged from an incident or two that happened when I was a young man. I don't know positively but like others have suggested, marquee Head Coaches probably resent when their owners give them orders as to who to draft and who to start. Like I said, I'm pretty sure Fisher is a good coach but clearly there were issues in Nashville. No one questions that Bud Adams was in Vince Young's corner and that Jeff Fisher wasn't. It seems obvious that there was friction between Adams and Fisher on the Young issue and maybe that was the wedge which eventually drove the two apart following the 2010 season when both Fisher and Young left the Titans.

I'm sick of hearing about this stuff too and look forward to the day where the game is made safe enough that we don't have to hear about it anymore. There are some standard and valid counterpoints to viewpoints like the one you express above. 1) What of the players who didn't know any of the risks of head trauma (let's just say 1960's players for example… we don't have to be precise on what year)? How about the players who maybe knew some of the risks (Steve Young retired in 1999 because he was concerned with the number of concussions he had received) but not all of the risks? Wouldn't you say that those two groups of players are in a different boat ("class" in legal terms) than the guys who were drafted just last month? 2) How about the fact that the NFL from 1994 to 2007 downplayed the effects of concussions? http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3644940 Everyone who wants to have a respected opinion on this issue ought to read the above link, excerpted below: "Since it first published research results in 2003, Pellman's committee has drawn a number of important conclusions about head trauma and how to treat it that contradict the research and experiences of many other doctors who treat sports concussions, not to mention the players who have suffered them. For example, Pellman and his colleagues wrote in January 2005 that returning to play after a concussion "does not involve significant risk of a second injury either in the same game or during the season." But a 2003 NCAA study of 2,905 college football players found just the opposite: Those who have suffered concussions are more susceptible to further head trauma for seven to 10 days after the injury." Suffice it to say that the NFL repeatedly defied and contradicted other studies that showed severe consequences for trying to play through head injuries. Again the NFL did this from 1994-2007. 3) What do you say about the merit of plaintiffs such as Wayne Chrebet and Merril Hoge (or for that matter Colt McCoy just last year in a nationally televised game) who were sent back into action just plays after suffering obvious and serious head injuries? Should concussed players "recognize the risks" and determine whether they are fit to return to action? On a related issue, is your opinion that the players should assume all risks and responsibilities the same as saying that the NFL shouldn't attempt to make the game safer? Shouldn't all industries continually make reasonable efforts to make the working conditions of all employees safer? Especially when the consequences of non-action are great?

As I already suggested in my post, a public figure has to prove malice for comments to be considered defamation (slander or libel). It is my opinion that Nawrocki was right there but there were no damages because Cam went first overall… so no foul. However if Newton somehow slid in the draft? It's all hypothetical but I find Nawrocki's "scouting report" to be WAY over the top. I mean, depicting hypothetical situations where Newton would fail? AND Characterizing Newton as (these are direct quotes) "me-first, fake, disingenuous, scripted, selfish, plays to the camera, enormous ego, does not command respect, lacks accountability, focus, and trustworthiness, not punctual, seeks shortcuts, sets a bad example, immature, and has had issues with authority… don't you think that's pretty slanderous? Put differently Lurker, have you ever seen such a negative "scouting report?" I certainly haven't and I've been watching these things for many years.

Wow. When you play psychiatrist/psychologist the way Nawrocki did in that last paragraph… that's almost malicious… that's almost defamation for goodness sake.

I thought Zach's comments reflected common sense and sobriety (both albeit in short supply these days). He certainly didn't add to the hysteria surrounding the issue but as a player with several concussions himself, why would he?

It seems like you're confusing your opposition to the Wildcat (the anti-gimmick, anti-gadget argument… which many people here have) with the Bills intentions to use it more. It also seems like your displeasure with Brad Smith or at least with his contract is clouding your view of the Wildcat issue. As others have clearly pointed out, the Wildcat is not going away and will likely be a bigger part of the offense this year. Also it's pretty clear why the Bills were forced to use it less in the second half of last year. You can say that you don't like the Wildcat or that you don't like Brad Smith… but you're wrong when you say the Bills will use it less based on the last half of last season.

To the bolded above, I've heard this before more than once. Fisher never wanted to draft Young so that was not the greatest situation for a young QB to be placed in. It is documented that in 2009, with the team starting 0-6 under Kerry Collins that Jeff Fisher refused to play Young. Finally owner Bud Adams ordered Fisher to start Young and the team went 8-2 down the stretch. When you consider what the players in Tennessee have said in the wake of Fisher's departure about the improvements under Munchak, and you consider the Jeff Fisher/Gregg Williams situation in St. Louis, it gives you cause to consider exactly how good a football coach Jeff Fisher really is. Fisher is still a good coach and there's still questions about Vince Young's mental makeup but I think there's a lot more to it than just "Vince Young is destined to fail because he's mentally weak." Personally I love it that Young has a lot of critics to prove wrong. And I wouldn't bet against the guy.

I've NEVER read a scouting report that negative so I'm gonna disagree with you this time. The scouting report was obsessed with the negatives. One short positive paragraph at the outset and two longer paragraphs of negatives that followed. Talk about Nawrocki overstating his case.

Besides what Lurker posted, I thought I heard that both men had publicly buried the hatchet long ago. Over the years at league meetings (before Ralph stopped attending) it was noted that they would greet each other warmly. Ralph also made peace with John Butler before Butler passed away.

WSS makes a great point… there's not a team in football without a few weaknesses. We almost beat (and should have) the Super Bowl Champions last year in their own house. Their linebackers were a big weakness on that team and their offensive line has been in a state of decline for years. They had age and injuries at running back. The other Super Bowl participant had one of the worst pass defenses in the league. There are no flawless teams out there so while it's interesting to discuss this, I wouldn't obsess on the imperfections too much. This team is ready to compete.

You make a great point and I wouldn't be surprised if the Bills did this occasionally. With his leg strength, hitting high-arc kickoffs would force teams to fair catch deep inside their own 20 or risk returning the ball with the coverage team virtually on top of the returner. Like eball says, there's a reason you boom it away but I could definitely see this strategy being employed as an effective changeup.

A sixth or seventh rounder is not within the realm of reality. No team would ever trade for that contract and even when the Bills signed him as a free agent, there was almost no interest in his services because of the spinal fusion surgery he had done the season before. His salary for this year is $3.8 million. A trade is not even a remote possibility. 3/17/2010: Signed a four-year, $18 million contract. The deal contains $6.65 million in bonus money, including a $1.2 million roster bonus in the second year. 2012: $3.8 million, 2013: $3.65 million, 2014: Free Agent3/17/2010: Signed a four-year, $18 million contract. The deal contains $6.65 million in bonus money, including a $1.2 million roster bonus in the second year. 2012: $3.8 million, 2013: $3.65 million, 2

THAT might be the worst case of uncalled for character assassination I've ever seen. I had questions about the kid too, but wow.

I miswrote. I meant that the State/County have little leverage… as ambiguously suggested in my second line about not playing hardball. Thanks, John.

Butting in on Dwight and John's conversation, the stadium investment vs team assurances thing is a chicken/egg argument however I agree that the Bills have zero leverage. As such, I can't see the politicians playing hardball with the Bills on investing in the stadium or demanding the team partner on the investment. IMO, stadium investment will be a political gamble which will be taken with the hope that it buys some more time for the Bills in WNY. I also think that the deal needs to be done ASAP as the worst case would be precipitated with the passing of Mr. Wilson early in the process. I believe that the farther the team/state/county travel down this road while Mr. Wilson is alive, the better it will be for the outcome.

A buddy of mine who lives in Myrtle Beach has been to Coastal Carolina's stadium where Thigpen's name is apparently honored with a banner. BTW, Coastal has also produced recent NFLers Mike Tolbert, Jerome Simpson, and Josh Norman who was just drafted by the Panthers. According to my buddy, Thigpen is not well-liked down there… I guess he maintains the BMOC persona, a la Ryan Leaf in Pullman.

Strongly disagree with your take, Doc. The NFL and pro football is developing an image problem. The concerns and perceptions of these concerns are very significant to the point where some are predicting the demise of the sport. The NFL can become proactive or like other sports before them (MLB, NBA, Boxing) pretend that there's no public consternation and let their market decline. The cause needs to be taken up for this reason (market protection/business) in addition to the very fact that avoiding head injuries with good, common sense measures is the right thing to do. The fact that coal miners go underground every day does not mean that they don't want better working conditions or that the industry shouldn't provide for better working conditions. Your reasoning is way off.

This defense is gonna be sick… even without John Beck on the schedule. Seriously, I think we're gonna kill the Jets. Sanchez and Tebow are gonna implode week one and the Jets will be a sinking ship by the 4th quarter of that game.

Bills fans are asleep. Then Thigpen really needs to spend more time in the weight room. The guy was disappointing last year and now it comes out that he had trouble holding a clipboard? I wonder if it's physical or mental, maybe he got a concussion when that warmup pass hit him in the head.

That idea crashed and burned.

The pride of San Jose, CA… after me, of course.

I don't think anyone would characterize him as our quarterback of the future. He had some low moments in Tennessee and some great ones as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Young