San Jose Bills Fan

You advocated drafting 2 O-linemen directly after I posted about the silliness of drafting an O-lineman in the first round. Who was being the smart ass? Also you said to draft a left tackle, Taylor Lewan. Am I supposed to be a mind reader and extrapolate that you want to draft a left tackle to play right tackle? Laid back? Smartass? How about you were understandably misunderstood because your post was anything but clear?

I'm sure he saw it last time too.

Agreed. We should draft guys to upgrade over Cordy Glenn and Kraig Urbik. Maybe in the 3rd round we can draft someone to upgrade Kiko Alonso's position.

Says the person who wants the Bills to draft an O-lineman in the first round.

You did. And good topic. Best to you and yours Bandit. I hope your New Year's Resolutions include a vow to stop stealing. Being a robber and an outlaw is no way of life for a fundamentally good person like yourself. Unless of course you give money to people less fortunate than yourself, like me.

When you see football discussions that are so shallow and lacking in perspective and then you hear those same people discuss things as complex as politics or economics, it just makes you shudder and despair for the future of mankind. :lol:

Better than having a rookie slump like some people. I thought you had to buy these guys at a special store? Anyways according to some here, the best way to help EJ is to continue to draft O-linemen in the first round. Seriously though, weapons do matter as JR knows. Brady is an interesting case because he won a Super Bowl with Givens, Patten, and other no names. However earlier this year when missing Gronk, Amendola, and Vereen, he was playing the worst football of his career. So yes, weapons do matter especially when injuries force you to throw to 2 rookie wideouts (Dobson and Thompkins). As a corollary, please remember that very few rookie wideouts make significant contributions (cue those who will bring up the exceptions as the rule). As far as EJ's accuracy, I reject those who say he's not accurate. Yes, he needs to work on his LONG ACCURACY which is a function of him improving his mechanics. But his short and medium accuracy are excellent for the most part and most of the misfires he's had are a function of missing 2 weeks of preseason, 5 weeks of the regular season, and regularly throwing to, wait for it, 2 rookie wideouts. EJ's made accurate downfield throws that Fitz couldn't make in his most glorious dreams. In addition, EJ was a 67% passer in college with an astronomical yards per attempt of 8.6. There are only two ways of having a yards per attempt that high: 1) Completing a high percentage of passes (every incompletion lowers that metric) 2) Making chunk yardage downfield EJ is a natural thrower who hasn't yet sighted-in his gun. But he's generally an accurate thrower whose accuracy will improve. Disagree with me but mark my words.

Excerpted from another thread and posted here: Here's a list of the most recent first round QBs and where they were drafted: Matthew Stafford 1st overall 2009 Mark Sanchez 5th overall 2009 Josh Freeman 17th overall 2009 Sam Bradford 1st overall 2010 Tim Tebow 25th overall 2010 Cam Newton 1st overall 2011 Jake Locker 8th overall 2011 Blaine Gabbert 10th overall 2011 Christian Ponder 12th overall 2011 Andrew Luck 1st overall 2012 RG3 2nd overall 2012 Ryan Tannehill 8th overall 2012 Brandon Weeden 22nd overall 2012 Only two of those players have established themselves as bona fide quality NFL starters, Stafford and Newton. Both of those guys were taken first overall. Of the other players drafted in the Top 5, it's looking very likely that Luck and RG3 will have great careers and it's looking more and more certain that Sanchez and Bradford are gonna be busts. Then you have players taken outside the top 5 where EJ was selected: Josh Freeman, Tim Tebow, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Ryan Tannehill, and Brandon Weeden. I would take EJ over any of those guys. Only Tannehill and Locker have an argument and Locker is in his 3rd NFL season. Then you consider how well EJ has played especially considering he missed half the preseason and 5 weeks of the regular season. Then you consider that the Bills traded down and still got Manuel. Then you realize that people posting on this board and expressing disappointment in EJ's rookie season really have no idea what they're talking about because they have no idea what a rookie QB in the NFL is realistically expected to do. The fact that Russell Wilson is playing like a high first round draft pick doesn't denigrate the fact that EJ has had a very good rookie season.

IMO you don't have the term "first rounder" in fair context. We're not talking Top 5 pick here. There are 32 first rounders each year. At least half of them become busts. Here are the top 7 picks from the 2009 draft. Except for one player on this list, all of these guys have busted or are viewed as disappointments: Matthew Stafford Tyson Jackson Aaron Curry Mark Sanchez Andre Smith Darrius Heyward-Bey Eugene Monroe Also your statement is oversimplified. Some of these players the OP listed would never be taken in exchange for a high first rounder but would definitely be taken in exchange for a low or mid first rounder. "First rounder" is a very general and imprecise label. I agree with BillfromNYC's list. With every post you raise the question of how much you really know about football and if you're here with the sole purpose of being a troll. Regarding McKelvin, he's been playing at an All-Pro level this year. It's obvious to anyone who watches the games. The statement that McKelvin is playing like a first rounder is not even debatable and the idea that he's not performing as one of the best cornerbacks in football is laughable. McKelvin might be having the best season of any player on this football team. It's between him and Cordy Glenn in my book. As for EJ, here's a list of the most recent first round QBs and where they were drafted: Matthew Stafford 1st overall 2009 Mark Sanchez 5th overall 2009 Josh Freeman 17th overall 2009 Sam Bradford 1st overall 2010 Tim Tebow 25th overall 2010 Cam Newton 1st overall 2011 Jake Locker 8th overall 2011 Blaine Gabbert 10th overall 2011 Christian Ponder 12th overall 2011 Andrew Luck 1st overall 2012 RG3 2nd overall 2012 Ryan Tannehill 8th overall 2012 Brandon Weeden 22nd overall 2012 Only two of those players have established themselves as bona fide quality NFL starters, Stafford and Newton. Both of those guys were taken first overall. Of the other players drafted in the Top 5, it's looking very likely that Luck and RG3 will have great careers and it's looking more and more certain that Sanchez and Bradford are gonna be busts. Then you have players taken outside the top 5 where EJ was selected: Josh Freeman, Tim Tebow, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Ryan Tannehill, and Brandon Weeden. I would take EJ over any of those guys. Only Tannehill and Locker have an argument and Locker is in his 3rd NFL season. Then you consider how well EJ has played especially considering he missed half the preseason and 5 weeks of the regular season. Then you consider that the Bills traded down and still got Manuel. Then you realize that people posting on this board and expressing disappointment in EJ's rookie season really have no idea what they're talking about because they have no idea what a rookie QB in the NFL is realistically expected to do.

Russ is cheap. They probably cut up the white stripes and used it the following week for the "Whiteout Game." Only the Bills.

People can disagree with me all they want. IMO, part of the cutting of choice was a general reaction to the Bills loss and a shot across the bow to a few players still on the roster. Thanks FiC. I've played on teams where the coach would yell and scream at one player to get the message to other players. That's often what "whipping boys" are for. As I've said before, anyone who has watched sports for a long time or has read lots of sports literature has seen or heard of these sort of punitive transactions in sports before. As for siblings, older siblings also will often get yelled at for things their younger siblings did but I admit in this case, it's not quite the same dynamic.

True but if Chandler hadn't fumbled the ball, none of this shyt storm would have happened.

It tells players who are currently uncut-able that continued screw-ups will have consequences. Anyone who has followed sports for any length of time has seen analogous moves, whether it be in football, hockey, or any sport. Like it or not, this move sends a message to the locker room. And as I wrote in my first post, there were other reasons that came into play (which you didn't bother to cite). To review: 1) The team knows the playoffs are out of reach and are auditioning young players for the future. 2) Choice had no future with the team. 3) Choice cost too much. 4) Choice added nothing to the team. 5) Choice's release sent a message to the locker room. These were all factors as I've already stated.

Don't know why you're being so hostile John. I excerpted your post because you didn't. I often excerpt links that people post because I know lots of people who are unfortunately unable to or unwilling to click on links (mobile devices that upload slowly, etc). If I didn't cite you it was an oversight as I almost always give credit where it's due. You would know this if you were familiar with my posts. I always read through an entire thread before posting and I don't post if I think someone has already expressed my sentiments except to compliment people whose opinions I agree strongly with.

Instead, he walked into the parking lot for unknown reasons and got into an apparently unlocked green Jeep that was similar to a vehicle in his tailgating convoy. The Jeep was parked in the same row where his group had parked earlier, but about 10 vehicles closer to the stadium. When the Jeep owner returned to the vehicle and found Van Winkle sleeping inside, the owner pulled him out, police said. As the owner was chasing Van Winkle around the Jeep, the owner’s 10-year-old son summoned help from a group of people who were watching the game on television in the parking lot. The bystanders believed Van Winkle had broken into the Jeep, but police said there was no evidence of a break-in. The bystanders confronted Van Winkle, police said. One bystander then punched Van Winkle in the face, quickly knocking him out. Witnesses said the bystander continued to punch Van Winkle, then walked away, leaving him on the asphalt. Someone propped him up against a bus, police said. The bystanders went back to their tailgate party, and the vehicle owner and his son left the area. Later, someone noticed Van Winkle was turning blue, police told The Star. A woman flagged down security officers about 5:40 p.m., and other bystanders started CPR. An ambulance took Van Winkle to a hospital, where he died. He and his wife had a 7-week-old baby. He worked at CommunityAmerica Credit Union. Read more here: http://www.kansascit...l#storylink=cpy

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=56695&draftyear=2010&genpos=TE 40 Low: 4.60 40 Time: 4.69 40 High: 4.76

You were the first to post this sentiment and I think that's part of the decision. Also those who point to Choice's doubtful future with the team in 2014 due to an unfavorable performance to pay ratio are also on point. But the new guy comes in strong: 1) As I've posted numerous times, Choice is an average back. Average speed, average quickness, average power, average instincts. He's exactly the sort of player who good organizations replace with a late round pick or undrafted free agent. As long as Wingo doesn't make assignment mistakes and does well in pass protection, he's an improvement on Choice. The main factor in cutting Choice is this: The Bills aren't going to cut Stevie Johnson nor are they gonna cut Scott Chandler. Someone had to be the sacrificial lamb. This is called indirect accountability. The blood of Tashard Choice is on the hands of Stevie Johnson and Scott Chandler. The players have been put on notice. This is a wake-up call.

The Bills rushed for 195 yards and for the second time this year, allowed zero sacks in a game in which they lost. Yet again, while they could improve, the O-line is far down the list of factors which prevent the Bills from winning. As said before, the Bills need to upgrade the offensive skill position weapons and having veteran receivers fumble away the game on two consecutive possessions backs up "The Gronk" argument eloquently. Tight ends like Chandler who can't block can't be fumbling the ball to the other team 4 times in 122 touches. In fact, tight ends and fullbacks aren't supposed to fumble the ball at all. If the Bills spend their mid first round pick on a guard, they're even more inept of an organization than any of us thought they were.

:lol: :lol:

What are the chances that Brady seizes on this and does something nice for these men (for some positive publicity)?

That bites. Did they give you an explanation? Do they think the other two people with huge totals did so using "acceptable" methods?

How does that explain Rookie of the Year candidate Eddie Lacy, the Alabama running back who's been superb? Incorrect. Colts' running back Donald Brown has 71 carries for 378 yards which is a 5.3 ypc average. Richardson's numbers are 139 carries for 411 yards which is a 3.0 ypc average. See above. The biggest change in the Colts' offense this season was the loss of Hall of Fame receiver Reggie Wayne. Their offense has taken a dramatic downturn since his injury in week 5. http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/161766-wgr-reports-trade-colts-browns/page__hl__colts Also Donald Brown's yards per carry has increased since the Colts acquired Richardson.

The Ravens are without Anquan Boldin and Dennis Pitta, two of their top 3 receivers from last year. That's 126 receptions, 1600 yards and 11 TDs in 2012 gone. Look what happened to Brady earlier this year when he had no weapons. Look at what's happening to Brady now that he's getting his weapons back. Gronk has made a huge difference since returning.

I couldn't resist.

McCarron is a just "for instance." My point is that there are a lot of good QBs out there even after Bridgewater, Manziel, and Mariota. What if the Bills are drafting 12th and Boyd or Hundley are there? Ideally a team would want to trade up for the pick but what if no good trade offer materializes even though the Bills know strong interest exists? Do you buy and hold? No doubt developing two QBs is difficult but it's not impossible. Cousins seemed to develop very nicely in spite of getting second string reps. Foles developed nicely for a second stringer. As for the locker room aspect, I believe that a strong coach could sell a competitive situation at QB to his team. I think it's only disruptive when leadership is weak. Again, all I'm saying is that a team shouldn't dismiss out of hand, the possibility of drafting a QB in the first round in consecutive years.