San Jose Bills Fan

Don't forget the Michaels! Good job Drew.

Not sure why you use the word "but" because it seems to me that you and Astro are basically making the same point. I would have said "and because."

No need to apologize. Opining is fine. I'd just like to avoid conversations about what defines a journeyman, etc. I justed wanted this thread to be a bit more focused on the Kolb acquisition.

BTW, I voted "yes." Also, I intentionally made it a private poll as my observation is that public polls tend to have a "chilling effect" on participation. Not everyone is comfortable putting their opinions out there. As for the contract caveat, I'm guessing that with the Bills very recent history of contracts (going back approximately to Stevie Johnson, Erik Pears, Urbik, to the present) that the terms will be very acceptable to our group. Just a guess.

I understand your points and don't completely disagree. However any transaction can be looked at: 1) When it happens 2) When the contract details emerge 3) After free agency if over 4) After the draft has taken place 5) During the preseason 6) When you're retired 23 years from now and scratching your butt while sitting in your favorite rocker You both get my point. The question is whether at this moment, you think (feel, guess, hope, predict, etc) that the Kolb signing was a good move based on the information we have available to us now. In other words, based on the possible outcomes of all the variables on the ledger. I'm not gonna debate you guys but I did want to point that out. Is there buyer's remorse at this moment or are people happy with the purchase in their gut? edit: Let me put it this way (the question could also be viewed as): Based on the football acumen that we all claim to possess, do we think this transaction will turn out to be positive or negative?

Alright folks. Less words and opinions, more facts. Here's the start of Kolb Ledger. Suggest entries for either side (plus or minus) and I'll update the ledger as I see fit. Also please vote in the poll. Thanks! Plusses: Solidifies the QB position in a worst-case scenario (if we somehow don't get another QB in draft) Solidifies the veteran backup position (over just TJax) Solidifies the rookie QB mentor position (over just TJax) Didn't cost the Bills draft picks Allows the Bills to consider not taking a QB at pick #8 Allows the Bills more freedom to trade down from #8 Sends a smokescreen to the rest of the league as to the Bills QB draft intentions Lessens the pressure on the rookie QB Shows the Bills are being proactive in roster building Kolb probably fits the offense that Marrone intends to run Minusses: Might cause the Bills to underdraft or not draft a QB this year Might have cost too much money Is a lateral move or worse than Fitz Could possibly retard the development of a rookie QB by taking away reps Could possibly impair the team's ability to evaluate said rookie QB by taking away reps Could cause the team to win more games in a rebuilding year, thus hurting next year's draft position Shows the Bills don't know anything about roster building Kolb doesn't fit the offense that Marrone intends to run Kolb is a possible injury risk

I think the point that's being suggested but not being made is that Alex Smith cost KC a 2nd rounder plus a conditional mid-round pick and that Matt Flynn would cost a team a draft pick or two. One thing to like about this transaction is that it didn't cost the Bills a draft pick, for a guy that was an expensive acquisition just two years ago. Good of NFL.com's Marc Sessler to directly attribute ESPN's Adam Schefter for breaking the story. Too bad most media outlets including ESPN don't hold themselves to such a journalistic ethic. 1) Who's jumping for joy? 2) The Bills had a hole to fill and they filled it (veteran backup/mentor for the rookie QB). Isn't that a good thing? As I'm becoming aware via reading about Kolb in the last 12 hours, he does hold the ball too long and so while his O-line was bad, he certainly didn't help them out in the way many good quarterbacks do. That said, Adam Caplan and others are commenting about how the Bills will be using a quick timing passing game. Hopefully Kolb can transistion. This is really nitpicking. The market has been very slow-moving. There are still numerous respectable players dangling on the market right now. The quarterback market was unstable and some pieces had to fall into place. The Bills and Kolb ended up together. That it took a few weeks is needlessly negative.

I doubt what you're saying. I think Kolb's contract will be structured in a way with playing time incentives and such that his total compensation will go down if he doesn't win the starting job. Almost like a two-way contract in hockey or baseball. He could make a lot, or not. I don't think so. Patterson's greatest talent is as a run-after-the-catch receiver. He's perfectly suited to taking shallow, horizontal, west coast-type routes and breaking them long.

Nope. Just wanted to point out that Manuel is superior to the rest of the QB class in every way. He'll be the best QB in this class IMO.

EJ Manuel's a handsome man.

Play Jackson?

So if CB's numbers are true (and Bangarang's are not), Skelton was sacked 4.3 times per game while Kolb was sacked 4.5 times per game. Not saying that Kolb doesn't feel pressure well but there seems to be little debate that the Cards O-line and their entire offense excepting Larry Fitzgerald was terrible. Interesting stuff from Caplan. Oh boy, heads are gonna roll. Times like this I'm glad I live in San Jose.

Evidence to support that Kolb's probably better than TJax? No hard evidence. I'm sure I could construct something but it's a moot point. They'll be competing with each other and presumably the competition will make the winner that much better. Kolb will either be better than TJax or he will make TJax better.

Nice play.

Kolb was the last little bit of leverage the Raiders had with both Carson Palmer and Matt Flynn/Seahawks. Kolb signing with Buffalo puts the Raiders in a bad position as I bet Kolb's camp was talking with the Raiders too.

No. It sounds like a very sound move to me. After seeing everything Fitz had to "offer," I'd much rather move on to a different player who may have more to offer.

And yet, Kolb completed 59 percent of his passes for 1,169 yards with eight touchdowns and three interceptions in an injury-plagued 2012 season. It was only two seasons ago that Arizona sent a 2nd round pick and a quality starting cornerback to Philly for Kolb.

Good point Jeremy. This is a good strategic move which pragmatically strengthens the position, at the same time creating uncertainty about what the Bills will do in the draft.

Well I didn't really see the point in the Bills picking up another veteran QB because it could impede the development of the rookie QB-of-the-future but this is probably a sound signing. Signing Kolb didn't cost the team any draft picks and the guy has some credentials and is probably an upgrade over TJax. I really preferred to go all-in with the rookie QB but bottom line, our QB situation as a result of this signing is more solid than it was.

Well I didn't really see the point in the Bills picking up another veteran QB because it could impede the development of the rookie QB-of-the-future but this is probably a sound signing. Signing Kolb didn't cost the team any draft picks and the guy has some credentials and is probably an upgrade over TJax. I really preferred to go all-in with the rookie QB but bottom line, our QB situation as a result of this signing is more solid than it was.

The one thing you kept hearing attributed to NFL scouts about Russell Wilson BEFORE THE DRAFT was that if he were 4 inches taller, he'd be a Top 5 pick. Shame on all the NFL decision makers for not believing the evaluations of their own scouts. It was mentioned here COUNTLESS TIMES that Wilson had the tallest offensive line in college football at Wisconsin (average 6'6") and that he had zero problems with batted passes and zero problems seeing downfield.

Average speed, average quickness, average blocker, average pass receiver, non-factor on special teams. Also he doesn't address the one area missing from our RB group: short yardage and goal line power. The only thing Choice theoretically would have over a cheaper, undrafted free agent is that he's a veteran so he can theoretically pick up the playbook a bit faster. That and the fact that most veteran RBs pass block better than most rookie RBs. But there are exceptions to that rule. With the Bills new emphasis on analytics, I'm amazed that for their 3rd string running back that they see more value in a 5th year veteran ($595,000/year) than a late-round or undrafted rookie. I thought with Gailey gone that the Georgie Tech nepotism was over with. Like I said upthread, stunned and disappointed. With zero upside and nothing to offer, hopefully CJ and Freddy stay healthy all year and we never see Choice on the field.

Bills sign Manny Lawson!!! Seriously though, the person who starts a thread can also close it or delete it. No need for the mods to get involved.

Buddy's retiring after the draft? Says who?

Bray has as much upside as Glennon, a bit more than Landry Jones, and a lot less than EJ Manuel.