San Jose Bills Fan

One thing I actually liked when I watched Tyler Bray is that he played with an attitude. I saw him jawing with defensive players. Now this could be the immature punk in him a la Jay Cutler. Or it could be his competitive spirit. Glennon on the other hand left me very unimpressed as far as discernible temperament.

Why would you post a quote from me that I already posted? Was it not enough that I posted it?

I thought he might be in the 24% as I pointed out at the beginning. There were a lot of people in the thread who were completely positive that he would serve time. Yeah, I'm tooting my own horn cause ain't no one else gonna do it. Kudos to me. Anyone wanna cop to being wrong?

Yes there continues to be a lot of guesswork as to what the Bills offense will look like under Marrone. He learned the "Gulf Coast Offense" under Payton. His OC, Nathaniel Hackett has a father who is one of the main figures in the development of the West Coast Offense. There has been talk originating from Hackett that the Bills will run some version of the K-Gun. So right there we have three pretty different things going on.

I didn't find the "Top Ten Rookie QB Comparison" you mention in your topic but I did notice they have the Bills drafting Jarvis Jones in their mock draft.

I also hope they haven't given him a 2nd round grade. I'd be much better with Bray if they took him later. He can wing the rock though.

Two things, Doc. 1) You should have written this post to Kirby, not me. I was just passing along what he said for the sake of discussion. 2) When I worked in the Buffalo sports media in the mid-late 80's, one of our interns who had connections to the Bills told us the Bills were definitely taking Shane Conlan. She offered to make wagers with anyone who thought differently.

Yep, as could a lot of other teams who ended up picking guys who haven't done so well. I didn't like the Maybin pick but it was definitely slim pickings that year in retrospect. EJ

Is the media responsible for the fact that no NFL team wants Tebow?

Probably though they'll have more undrafted FAs than is typical on an NFL roster.

One year, $700,000.

According to Kirby Jackson who purports some inside info, Nassib is 4th on the Bills QB board:

Where you been son? We've been worried about you.

Well we sit right next to each other on the bandwagon so you know EJ's my boy too. I could live with Geno and Nassib too. The others I could live with depending on where they are taken.

:lol:

I did forget about Fitz didn't I? Nonetheless, it's silly to criticize the teams "personnel work" when free agency is still going on and the draft is two weeks away. Especially when that criticism is vague and generalized. Don't feel it necessary to accommodate me (I'm sure we both have better things to do) but feel free to comment on the moves the Bills have made this offseason (outlined above).

I understand the concerns about both of these players. The thing about both of them goes back to a theme that I've been reading a lot about the approach to player evaluation this draft season: Scouts are looking at a player's positives and figuring out what he can do and what he brings to the table. It's kind of like saying that you're ignoring the player's negatives. This "philosophy" has been expressed quite a bit in the QB debate. I don't necessarily agree with it but I understand it. You look at a player and see how he fits into your system or what you would like to do. Both of these guys are a bit unconventional in that neither of them have a power aspect to their game like DeMarcus Ware or JPP or players like that. But both of them are truly freakish athletes (unlike Maybin who was slow when he gained weight, and weak whether he was heavy or light). Teams look at these guys as weapons to be unleashed upon offenses. While neither of them have quite the nice balance of speed, quickness, and power evidenced in the play of guys like Von Miller and Aldon Smith, they are still phenomenal athletes that if used correctly could make huge impacts. Jordan in particular has the potential to be a completely unique defender, sacking Brady on one play and blanketing Gronkowski on the next one. Both of these guys are a bit low floor/high ceiling players. Perhaps neither of them should be judged as one would conventionally judge a player.

Not me. We'll see.

You can't simply criticize the "personnel work" in a vacuum. To discuss it with any depth at all requires the discussion to take place within the context of the salary cap. It requires specific criticisms and compliments of the small handful of moves they've made so far. A ledger so to speak. Then those individual entries can be looked at as an aggregate to judge the work as a whole SO FAR. These are the moves and non-moves so far this offseason (I might have forgotten one or two): McKelvin Byrd Levitre Rinehart Bryan Scott David Nelson Donald Jones Nick Barnett Chris Kelsay Kyle Moore Manny Lawson Kevin Kolb Alan Branch $16 million remaining in cap room

The opening of the piece is poorly written in that it casts the players as Player A vs Player B. It's not clear to me that the lens used by the writer is relevant to the actual discussion. They are both physical freaks though. I thought it was Mingo's partner in crime, Sam Montgomery who said that the two didn't always try their hardest. BTW, what a stupid thing to say… and to say it for someone else is even stupider.

You're off on this. Based on what we know, Kolb will make a base salary of about $3 million this year and TJax will make about $2.25 million. Because Brad Smith remains on the roster, the Bills have essentially swapped Tyler Thigpen for Kevin Kolb and TJax. In addition, Marrone said yesterday that the acquisition of the two veteran signal callers will have no bearing on the Bills drafting a rookie QB this year. You're damning take on the Bills QB situation ignores some significant facts: 1) The Bills have already improved the position by large measure 2) It's almost certain (it's completely certain in my mind) that the Bills will draft their QB of the Future and 3) It's early in the offseason

So who's gonna win the Super Bowl this year? San Fran or Seattle?

Jaworski doesn't grade them. He only comments. BTW, my sense from having watched all of these QBs is that Jaws hasn't really done all of his film study yet. Anyways, here are some of his remarks: 1. Geno Smith, West Virginia As I mentioned in my earlier examination of the best available QBs this offseason, I go back to when I saw him play at the Orange Bowl in 2012. Watching him at practice, in production meetings and in the game itself, I liked what I saw. When I broke him down on tape in the game, I saw even more to like. I project him to be a solid starter in the NFL and certainly the No. 1 quarterback off the board at the draft. Smith is not without flaws. I was concerned about some of the inaccurate throws I've seen him make -- particularly on deep balls -- and wanted to see a more consistent throwing slot. But I thought he answered some of those questions at his pro day. He has made beneficial adjustments. I left there feeling a lot better about him as a prospect. He made all the throws, and the ball came out of his hand with good velocity and spin. Although he has a strong arm and is a powerful thrower, he also can throw with touch. As I tick off all the attributes of a successful NFL quarterback, Smith has the most checks in the plus column among this draft class. 2. Ryan Nassib, Syracuse The more I watched Nassib, the more I liked him. On the positive side, he has shown a good strong arm and can make touch throws. On the negative, he has lacked consistency on corner routes and deeper routes and has struggled with accuracy. Mechanically, he's very good. I like his quick stroke. Even with a little load, he gets the ball out fast and secures the ball well when he gets it in his hands. Those might seem like little things, but in the NFL all the little things are amplified and can be the difference between success and failure. There's also a scheme element that I like. Yes, Nassib is coming from a spread offense, but most of the passing concepts used by Doug Marrone's offense project well in the NFL. At a minimum, Nassib will fit well with the Buffalo Bills. Just saying… 3. EJ Manuel, Florida State [+] Enlarge AP Photo/Don KellyEJ Manuel could be taken in the first round. I'll be honest, when I first started watching Manuel on film, I didn't really like him. Then, last week, when I broke him down a little more, he reminded me of another notable recent prospect: Colin Kaepernick. With Kaepernick, I went back and forth a lot. Same thing here. I don't like a lot of the negatives I see with Manuel -- too many misreads, too many throws into coverage -- but if you speak to NFL scouts and coaches, they'll tell you that when it comes to projecting prospects, it's more important to see the high end of the talent spectrum than to focus on mistakes. Once you know a QB is capable of making the great plays, you can spend time on eliminating the mistakes. It's easier to erase flaws than to teach greatness. The more I study Manuel, the more I see all those great plays. He can move in the pocket, using great footwork, and he can run it. He has plenty of arm strength and can fit the ball into windows. I'm certain there will be teams that see him and think he fits exactly what they want to do with the ball. If some team wants a versatile, mobile "new era" QB, Manuel could be the guy in this class. I could see some teams slotting him No. 1 on their boards. At a minimum, I think we'll see a team trade up into the back end of Round 1 to select him. 4. Landry Jones, Oklahoma This might surprise some people, but when I watch Jones, I really like his mechanics. Some guys are just pretty passers. Take former NFL star Warren Moon. He looked good in the pocket and threw a really nice ball. Jones is similarly a fluid passer. He makes all the throws and shows good balance in the pocket. If there's a blemish, I think it's that he missed far too many open receivers. But to me, the good outweighs the bad. He has good eyes and can throw to his left as well as his right. He has good, not great, mobility. I think he'll be a good pro. 5. Mike Glennon, NC State The first thing that stands out about Glennon is his size (6-foot-7). But when you watch him, he looks really comfortable under center, and you can't say that about too many college QBs these days. What's more, he has a good quick stroke and delivers the ball with no false movements. Sometimes the tall guys get a little off balance when they move, but Glennon is not a long strider for a tall guy. He's another player who grew on me the more I watched him. On the downside, I thought he could become confused by coverage, and he held on to the ball when he could have gotten rid of it. I also didn't see as many NFL throws as I'd like to see considering all I hear about the arm strength. I've heard comparisons to Joe Flacco in terms of his arm, and I can tell you, it's not even close. Flacco could throw those sideline routes as well as anyone. When I see those same throws from Glennon, he's just not in Flacco's category right now. That corner route, the deep out, those are difficult throws to make. You could make it as a touch pass over the safety or linebacker or as a line drive. It's tough, but a guy such as Flacco can make them. I don't see those same throws from Glennon. That said, although he might not be Flacco, I still think Glennon will be a solid NFL player. 6. Matt Barkley, USC I like Barkley, really. And it's to his credit that he already has performed well in a lot of big football games. Among this group, he might be the most mentally ready to succeed in the NFL from day one. But when push comes to shove, I think he needs to find himself in the right system because I'm not sold on significant upside. Think about this: In 2012, the Trojans had some of the best, most dynamic receivers in the college game, Marqise Lee and Robert Woods. USC also had very good tight ends. And they had Barkley, a four-year starter. Yet for all of those assets, the USC coaches didn't build an offense around the passing game in 2012. That makes me scratch my head a little bit. Was it the coaching, or a trust factor in the QB? Then there are the physical concerns. When I see Barkley throw, I don't see enough drive on the ball. I don't see him snapping off throws. I thought he often pushed the ball rather than get that good wrist snap that generates velocity and a tight spiral. I also didn't see him driving off his back leg on throws. He threw the fade well and had some nice deep posts, but I didn't see him making a lot of NFL throws despite an NFL-caliber receiving corps in a pro-style offense under Lane Kiffin. I think Barkley is capable of having a very long NFL career. But I don't consider him one of the top QB prospects in this draft class. 7. Tyler Wilson, Arkansas When his No. 1 receiving option was open, Wilson was solid. When he wasn't open? Well, that's when the flaws started to surface. I don't think Wilson saw the field very clearly last year. Part of that could have been a byproduct of the turbulent situation in Arkansas, new coaching and a bunch of new targets. But when plays didn't shape up as they were supposed to, his reads and his mechanics started to break down. Wilson is a bit of a long strider, and when he gets out over his front foot too much, his ball starts to lose energy. He also has a habit of dropping into a sidearm throwing motion too often. I know that sometimes you have to deliver the ball from an awkward platform, but Wilson was dropping down even when defenders weren't in his face. Overall, I thought he had decent mechanics with a quick stroke and good ball position at delivery, but, when he held on to the football, he seemed to lose focus and his mechanics started to break down. He then showed slow feet; I didn't think he ran very well outside the pocket. I'd have concerns about Wilson at the next level. There are flags here. 8. Tyler Bray, Tennessee Bray is a big, strong guy who stands tall in the pocket … but my advice would have been to stay at Tennessee another year. When you look at the film, you can see some good attributes, but he is really raw. His mechanics … let's say that if you draft him, you're going to need to spend some time with him. I look at him and worry I'll see some of the things I saw from Blaine Gabbert when he got to Jacksonville. I thought he should have stayed in college and gotten more seasoning, and I feel the same about Bray. Yes, you can see the ability and athleticism, but he is a very raw prospect who needs much more experience. In the NFL, I don't think he'll get that experience in games for a little while. Scouts Inc: POS RANK OVR RANKGeno Smith QB 6'2⅜" 218 West Virginia 91 1 20 Matt Barkley QB 6'2½" 227 USC 89 2 32 Ryan Nassib QB 6'2⅛" 227 Syracuse 83 3 53 Tyler Wilson QB 6'2⅛" 215 Arkansas 82 4 57 EJ Manuel QB 6'4⅝" 237 Florida State 78 5 73 Mike Glennon QB 6'7⅛" 225 North Carolina State 77 6 81 Landry Jones QB 6'4⅛" 225 Oklahoma 76 7 87 Tyler Bray QB 6'6⅛" 232 Tennessee 74 8 93 Matt Scott QB 6'2⅛" 213 Arizona 68 9 125 Zac Dysert QB 6'2⅞" 231 Miami (OH) 62 10 144 The three numbers after the players' college are: 1) Draft Grade 2) Position Rank 3) Overall Rank So Geno Smith is scored a 91point player and is the top ranked QB and 20th ranked player.