8-8 Forever?

Excellent. I am in DC. Get to see @Ravens and @Redskins. Good. Lots and lots of Bills fans here. 10's of thousands. Truly.

Well, Sammy gets next year who Beckam played this year (AFC South/NFC East). Lets see how he does.

I meant relative to making the playoffs it did not matter. Sure all games are important, and I believe they spanked the Packers and 1st team Pats and Broncos offense for 8-9 quarters altogether. Marrone had them ready to go. Did not see much of the Raiders game so cant say much on that game. In the past, the Bills would have run for the bus from a meaningless game 16 at the Pats. I don't see that. The game they had to have was the Chiefs game. That was the turning point, the Bryce Brown absolutely unforgivable fumble turned the season. There's a reason he played little thereafter. He holds onto that ball, we win and are 6-3, a competitive conference record, with momentum going into Miami. No other way to look at the season, IMO. The season pivoted on that game. The McKelvin fumble later, also unforgivable given the late game situation where ball security was critical, was equally devastating. That's not coaching, that's players screwing up big time and having zero situational awareness. This season is not on the coaches. Players played crappy and stupid in critical situations and that wiped out a great second half defensive and special teams performance.

Correct? thats the way it looks...

The Bills are a home boy franchise. No one without some kind of tie to the area is coming there. With rare exceptions, unless you are from there or have some kind of tie to the general area, no one makes a free will choice in the face of equivalent opportunities elsewhere to actually move their families to WNY. Not happening any more than any other rust belt 3rd tier US city. Jim Kelly actually physically cried when the Bills drafted him. Remember that?? The area has a big time image problem. that is why home boys like Russ Brandon get those jobs. No one else wants them if comparable opportunities exist elsewhere . Just the way it was when the death watch with RWS was on. Maybe new Pegula $$$ can open the place up to guys not born in WNY, we shall see.

who cares. game will be forgotten by Friday.

pretty sure Marrone and Hackett are a package deal. You either get both or neither. If neither, then you are blowing up everything and starting over.... again. Is that what you want? Full restart? New schemes, cutting players left and right to get new ones that "fit" what the new guy wants to do? by the time its all put back together again today's talent is gone? the vicious cycle has to end. they are close. Just need a QB and a couple O Linemen. Everyone calm down.

by this thread I'd say its about time for the season to end

the best don't want to work in this franchise. period. gotta get the best you can get that actually want to work with the franchise. that is a very short list, and Polian is on it

Brady, Rodgers and Rivers. that's how they do it. Simple game. Find a top 10 QB and everything else is secondary. Which is why they'll never get there.

Without a dynamic QB/OC/HC team, this team is going nowhere but 8 - 8 again. Defense and a run game doesn't get it done the way the rules are now. Hate to say it, but Pegulas have a big chore ahead and a lot a money to spend to get these top positions filled with top people. Hate to say this as well, but I don't think top top people are coming to this particular franchise/location at any price. but we shall see.

not much. all those teams with 3 more wins over past 10 years have all been great in the past, are relatively popular and have Super Bowl winning legacies that are very strong. Unfortunately and regrettably, the Bills are perceived nationally a doormat franchise in a forgotten rust belt area with a horrific SB losing legacy. The Bills regrettably need to win a lot over a long period of time to escape the ingrained image of "why is there a franchise in Buffalo again?" mentality nationally... just sayin'. They will get there, a few consecutive good decisions by new ownership and i think everything can change.

yeah, they are fine. just haven't found a QB yet. Simple as that. Not sure EJ isn't it just yet. Marrone bailed pretty fast on him, but once the season starts , you either have it or you don't as a QB, training camp is over and the development period is largely over (as a starter) until the next off season. I wonder if they still think he can do it and their just cleaning up his mechanics all this season. We shall see. of course if the coaching staff gets flushed EJ is toast. CJ could easily end up with the Pats. Watch out.

True. Gailey was a much more creative OC. Too bad his career path means he will never accept an OC position again. Schwartz and Gailey and your in the playoffs, no doubt. Coaching in the NFL doesnt work that way though. He probably will. MarshawnLynch 2.0. It all gets back to the QB and the OLine. If you don't respect the QB, you play the run, which makes the OL appear bad. The League is totally geared to the QB position. If you have a good one and a good offensive scheme, you succeed, unless your D or ST stink, then you stink as well. Tough game.

Bingo. No top tier coach is coming to f ing Buffalo, New York. Love it grew up there, but it ain't happenin' . As they say amoungst the players and coaches, "buffalo is where careers go to die"

No you are not. The challenge is finding a QB. Not sure there will be any answers at QB next year. Teams hang on to franchise type QBs. Maybe DC cuts Griffin out? Kaepernick? Obviously you try to jump on either one, but I doubt they will be out there. I guess Cutler is a possibiily and that would be fine ... don't care if he is an ass. He can play. OLine is a priority, need to spend some $ here as well. We'll see if its the same old crap or a new beginning with new ownership..

we'll see. If they show Hughes the $$ and he leaves anyway (see: Chad Reinhart, Jarius Byrd, Jason Peters et al) , that will tell me a lot on the mood in the locker room. he is my barometer this offseason essentially, I believe until til proven otherwise that this team cannot get much beyond 8-8. b/c the best in the prime of their careers will not come to the Bills at any price. management, coaching or players, the Bills get the very young (watkins/gragg/hackett)and the too old/pretty much washed up or Buffalo native cronies (the entire front office+/Orton/Graham/Legursky) types who will not kill you but will not get you to the promised land either. plus their are no Kellys in the draft for us. plus due to the low end management team you draft a Spiller, hire a Marrone, etc. Tough to win 2 out of 3 with this setup. its like the local rugby team. great guys , but not going anywhere Maybe Pegula can throw a ton of money at it and turn it around, we shall see. What's another $10m when you're already $1B in the hole? We shall see... another run for the bus game 16 and anonymous offseason for the "shadow franchise of the NFL" begins...

My sense is Pegula's will, for better or worse, follow up the $1B with big money for new management and coaching. Why spend $1B and let a couple college coaches run it? I think the Marrone era is over simply b/c new long term ownership is in town and they will study it, get some recommendations and then put their own people in. Nothing against Marrone and crew, I just think new owner means means new management. A rash of key IR-type injuries trashes whatever you do, but assuming that away, at 8 -8 , they are coaching , a decent QB and a couple drafted OLinemen from being 11-5 or better. All coaching candidates will probably see that. Ralph's imminent demise scared high end guys off until now. This could be the year they get a real NFL coaching staff. We shall see.

Well we know we need a couple O Lineman and a QB. They will go and address this I am sure. Whaley knows it and if he is replaced, his replacement with a fresh set of eyes will see it. All good. they will get it fixed either in FA or draft. Probably both.

well, 8-8 is OK if ownership had not just changed. Pegulas will take a hard look at this. You don't spend $1B and worry about the cost of cutting a guy you did not hire in the first place. So, assuming they get crushed by the Pats again, you can look to regime change I think. They failed with EJ, they put their jobs in his hands and the guy can't play, so you move on . I see it all getting blown up myself.

he'll get HC job somewhere else immediately. guys a rock star in this league

what a crappy attitude. wallowing in another teams troubles. geez. don't throw stones when you live in a glass house. I'm sure all kinds of folks are laughing at what the Bills paid for Watkins. We shall see. takes time. Redskins ( i live in DC) were utterly shredded by key player OL/DL/LB injuries all year, just like SF. That is what tanked their seasons, not some QB crap.

no no no, sorry did not mean it that way... hate me for it, but I think EJ with better passing mechanics can be better than Andy Dalton (the median for franchise QBs). Marrone has a philosophy called win games and he was right, Orton gives a better chance of a win, so he went with it. 9-7 would just be completely awesome if EJ was the QB who helped deliver it. That's all I'm saying. then we know who our QB is next year. As it is now, no one knows. They will try to get more better QB bodies in there i am sure. Whaley/Marrone it is clear are running a program here, they are constantly recruiting better players to take someone else's place. Look at Gray, Thigpen, Rambo and others who may be better than the guy they replaced. Its an ongoing process with hopefully more and more wins dropping out of the machine. I think they have the process down now. Let the machine continue IMO. They play the NFC East and AFC South so maybe a bit more opportunity against weaker defenses than they saw this year. We shall see. nah, I think 9-7 pretty much defines this team pretty well at this stage of development. the D is young and mainly signed for next year. the QB position will be better b/c it could not be worse. so let it ride. no one expected playoffs ... the D did not come together until the 2nd half of the year.. I see bright skies ahead.

right? better if EJ was a good QB delivering them, but sounds good , no?

Agree. But you guys are thinking perhaps a bit too much about game day revenue. Probably fine if the Raiders go back. Some fan base there. Any other team will have a challenge. Maybe St L. b/c of the Seattle, SFran, Phoenix "rivalry" in the NFC. Nah, probably not. L.A. is the Lakers and showtime and all that garbage. NFL is beer and cigarettes and sausage. I don't see it, but the a even with a crappy fan base L.A. TV ratings will be better than Oakland, StL and SAnD combined. TV revenue is what makes the NFL go, and ratings are what matter, so rivalries matter, so Oakland or St Louis make the most sense to me.... gonna happen. TV market there is too big for NFL to ignore. LA Rams vs SanFran 49ers from the Rose Bowl I can sell. St Louis rams vs San Fran 49ers from some dome in Missouri I cannot.