SDS

nice play AW. 26 seconds left in the half and you are jumping routes. I bet that TD won't matter...

I've been watching McKinnie exclusively.... He's playing a pretty good game if you ask me.

that 2002 draft will bite us also as it appears to be devoid of anything significant enough to help this team win ball games. These guys should be coming into their own right now.

if by "fan support" you mean "your support" then whatever... BTW, it IS one of those posts about "hiring Tasker as ST coach"...

Good grief... TD leaves Pitt in January of 2000 and you are making comparisons to their team in 2004-2005?

Please define "we can get by". I still have no idea if you want an 8-8 team or you want championship caliber team. Lots of people will have better numbers if you upgrade a unit, but at the end of the day what do you hope to achieve? We haven't even won the stinking division in 10 years and that overlaps two GM's and boatload of o-linemen.

What does "servicable" mean exactly??? Does that mean you win the battle in the trenches or you lose? Does that mean you have a Super Bowl caliper line or does it mean you have 8-8 potential +/- the bounce of a pointy ball? Maybe I feel I have a greater perespective of this since I have been actively observing the conversation about the OL for 7 years now. One thing I can tell you is that Bills fans have been bitching about it perinially for 10+ years. So, if your point is that you are striving for a mediocre line that gets us the occasional WC birth and a 1st round exit in the playoffs, then fine you made your point. If your point is that our OL mess was NOT an issue before TD's arrival, then you are wrong. The Butler ball-washing/revisionist history needs to stop. He inherited a Super Bowl team, but only achieved uninspired success that faded as his tenure progressed.

You just described a bunch of fill-ins (as well as overstating the value of Bryson) for the most part. Winfield was the only one who you could point to as being a marquee player for a few years. Price was almost out of the league and certainly is not playing up to a 2nd round level. 1999 is just another example of a draft that provided role players while our top-flight talent aged another year.

A team filled with role players loses. Yes you need them, but make no mistake - somwhere on your team you need top level talent. QB, RB, WR, DE, MLB, DT, whatever it may be you need a Jordan to make your Pippen's/Rodman's shine.

So, I see no OL. I see a 5'6" CB who is no longer on the team and had some decent years in Buffalo (not 1st round decent mind you...). A WR who had one good year for us that we took advantage of and a bunch of crap. Thanks for making my point in 1999. The same holds true for all the other years since Bill Polian left.

So this was planned? SD never wanted Manning. They didn't even want Rivers. They are just acquiring players they don't want in order to trade them for players they do want?

that can't be... TD has only been in Buffalo since 2001.

Perhaps you could discuss the 2004 draft? San Diego drafts Eli Manning and trades that for QB Philip Rivers. Drew Brees is the starting QB though.... your turn.... finish the train of thought.

Many fans have made similar statements here that Roth makes in his mini-column today. "San Diego drafted and groomed a top quarterback, Drew Brees, who tossed four touchdowns Sunday. Buffalo is just starting to groom one, J.P. Losman, after taking a three-year detour with Drew Bledsoe." Drafted and groomed? WTF is this? Despite the "can do no wrong" BS that is floating around here (wrt Butler/Smith) and in Leo's column, reality states that SD was sooooo bad that had the top pick in the draft, traded that pick away to the NYG and selected ANOTHER GD QB! Is that how they "groomed" Drew Brees Leo??? Is that how sharp AJ is that he didn't even know the talent he had on his own roster?

Again, "hiring" is a two way street. You can make an offer, but that offer needs to be accepted. A candidate can make demands that ownership my refuse. Is this that hard to understand? You don't know the facts and neither do I.

That is my point. Our OL woes do not date back to the signing of TD. It has been this way since Will Wolford left for Indy.

That's fine. But you are accusing the guy for passing on Tony Dungy for crying out loud. There is no need to make sh-- up when there are a lot of real things to complain about.

You have no idea how those interviews went (for those who were even interviewed) or even if those coaches were interested. You also have no idea what constraints he was under (from the ownership). There is enough to complain about here that we don't need to make wild speculations based upon very little evidence.

John Fina was drafted in 1992 BY POLIAN to play guard. He was never drafted to play tackle - particularly left tackle. That was a "Butler move". Butler's big claim to fame for our o-line was to pour $6M down the Ruben Brown rat hole. Because that is how you build o-lines. You pay LT money to LG's and you take OG's and put them at LT and then you fill in with bums the rest of the way... Save your breath.

Charles, while you are reminscing about the good old days, perhaps you could scan our drafts from 1993 to 2000 and list those top players that came in and reloaded our empty gun from the early 90's. Try and at least pick guys who have made it to a pro bowl or two. Then, list the starting o-lineman from the last few years of the Butler era. Don't forget to include such guys as Corbin Lacina, Jamie Nails, Corey Louchiey....

you can believe that all you want. Put Nate on Carolina or a dozen other teams and he is a top tier pro-bowler.

That is my point - we don't have really ANY of those players for 4-7 years. We aren't losing top draft choces to FA... Maybe Clements this year. Who else? Who is signing that rich money after their contract is up? Jonas Jennnings? 70 picks and barely a handful of top-tier talent.

So, do you think there is an actual prescription for that or is it just dumb luck that you hit on your drafts and your free agents? Or is it just the coaching and only a handful of guys know the secret?

Marv Levy? The guy who would PAY to coach at any level in the NFL again? The guy who puts his name out there time and again but gets ignored time and again by 32 NFL teams? Yeah, where's Marv...

While the anger is understood, I think the talent is there. And if it is there, then the problem lies elsewhere. Brees had a phenom day. Their game plan was dead nuts on. Nate was victimized, but he is the symptom and not the cause in my opinion.